MovieChat Forums > Dinosaur 13 (2014) Discussion > How could they not know the law?

How could they not know the law?

posted 9 years ago by nick-1036
8 replies | jump to latest

I am not a lawyer but I know anytime you are on Indian land or land that is in a Trust, especially a US government Trust, you can't take anything off the land. I have been to national parks and there are signs saying you can't take rocks, much less fossils.

So how could these guys not know the law and how could they offer the landowner 5k for the largest most complete T-Rex ever without a lawyer? You have to be incredibly naive not to get a lawyer involved and find out who owns the land and if there any government restrictions. Especially because it was Indian land.

For that reason alone, the way this played out was correct and the government did the right thing.

This doc feels sorry for the Institute and shies away from what the law was when they found the t-rex and fails to highlight their ignorance of the law. I know the general feeling in this country is that the government is out of control and tries to control our lives but this is not a good example of government abuse. If anything, it illustrates that land rights mean something and that you better know the law when you want to play in the big time on someone else's land.

[–] rollerskater61 9 years ago

Ridiculous. They looked up the owner to verify, got his agreement on film, for 90% of us, including the 11 of the 12 jurors, that's more than reasonable. The government went in for money laundering only after they realized the couldn't press Sue as a way for their people to save face. If they realized the end result going in they never would have started!

And who wants to live in a place where reasonable agreements are trumped by arcana?

---
Darling, nothing is final 'til you're dead, and even then, I'm sure God negotiates.

[–] neerood 9 years ago

As far as they knew, the land owner was the rancher who granted permission and eventually accepted the check selling the fossil for $5,000. Later when he decided he could get more for the recovered and now famous fossil, he lied. He's a disgrace.

[–] wriverprep 9 years ago

I don't believe anyone at the Institute was aware the land was held in Trust. It should be argued that the onus to declare it was in Trust status should have fallen upon the landowner. Who should know better, after all, than the one who entered his own land into the agreement?

Might that be similar to me selling my land with an existing mortgage, accepting payment and letting the new owners discover afterwards that there was a lien or mortgage on the place?

In real estate, such things are looked for and disclosed. For Trust Land status it is not nearly as clear.

All said, it took some rather peculiar legal meanderings to have the fossil remains declared to be "land" some 4 years after the sale, so that the Trust Act could be invoked.

Basically, someone neglected to request and fill out a form, then submit it, in order to obtain government permission to complete the sale. It seems rather convenient that the one person in the original agreement who possessed that knowledge and ability also happened to be the landowner and he disclosed none of that technicality.

Of course, probably nobody involved had an inkling that a fossil was to eventually be declared as "land," so why would they even think it was necessary? Fossils are quite often removed from tribal lands under similar landowner/collector arrangements without raising an eyebrow. Put a big $$ in front and suddenly claims for it come from all directions.

-Ed

(edited to fix typos)

[–] jerebear-1 9 years ago

BHI knew the law and knew where the dig was. This was their shot at a big payday and nothing more.

The US Government was investigating them for several years before the big discovery. BHI are not victims, they are mercenaries in the business of selling bones to the highest bidders they can find. They had no interest in preservation or paleontology other than for identifying and pricing fossils. They would be just as happy seeing Sue decorating the mansion of some Sheik as being preserved in a natural museum, and they had no issue with circumventing the law to get cash.

Cry me a river. The bottom line is that Sue is preserved in whole and that would not have happened had the government not stepped in.

[–] OtisLovesUs 9 years ago

BHI knew the law and knew where the dig was.

The only person we know for certain who knew it was trust land was the owner. He clearly made the initial sale knowing that it was an illegal sale. He clearly wanted as little of a paper trail as possible on that sale. And he clearly decided to renege on that agreement when he later figured he could screw BHI out of not only that initial $5,000, but thousands of hours of labor and untold additional expense, to excavate and preserve Sue.

The actual bottom line is that, were it not for BHI, Sue would have been wasting away, slowly destroyed, never to be found. The government had precisely jack squat to do with that dinosaur being preserved in whole.

You're either a big government fetishist, or a relative of Maurice Williams. Hoping to be in on that inheritance?

[–] waltwhitmansniece 9 years ago

I think they did know the law. I think they were a bunch of pompous entitled dirtbags who had been getting away with it and didn't care.
The director's intentions completely backfired in my opinion.

[–] txeagle 8 years ago

Honestly, I don't give a damn about "the law." If they hadn't taken the initiative to collect those fossils, where would the fossils be now? Sitting undiscovered, slowly being destroyed by the elements. How is THAT better? This was the gov't cutting off it's nose to spite it's face.

[–] gueeds 8 years ago

I'm all for science and hate lawyers, but they should have known to have proper legal counsel for any and all agreements and digs especially crossing state and country borders or being in national parks. That's on them, go cry me a river. Give me the scientists who aren't going to be hacks and cause all the legal red tape to hinder the finding.

Realize any documentary is going to have a spin on it, this is the BHI spin so, of course, they are painted to be completely innocent. Need to read between the lines and think for yourself. It was pretty obvious for me they were always in this for the money right from the get go.