...by her rash, impertinent (deeply unrealistic) decision to not ask her father's permission to marry. Instead of blaming Jacob, Dinah would have been better off blaming the cultural norms of the society in which she lived. Furthermore, her husband was a fool for not insisting that they receive her father's blessing before being married.
shareI didn't read the book maybe I would have liked that Dinah better. I thought she was very stubborn no one could tell her anything. I liked what she stood for generally speaking but her methods left a lot to be desired.I thought she suffered more than she deserved but she would never see anyone's side of anything except her own.
I have thought maybe a different actress would have helped soften her to some degree.
I also did not necessarily disagree with Dinah's perspective. My problem is that the character appeared to be a time traveler from the modern West. It is incomprehensible to me that she would imagine that being married without her father's approval would be in any way acceptable in the culture and time in which she lived. I had no problem with Dinah being more independent minded than her mothers, but the fact that her character seemed to have no understanding at all of how the society she was raised in functioned really pushed the limits of my ability to suspend disbelief. Instead of Dinah having some modern, Western aspects to her personality, she is basically a modern Western woman transported into the ancient Middle East.
I didn't have a problem with the actress, but like you I question if I would have appreciated the character more had I read the novel first.
I could understand for example not wanting daughters to be viewed as property even in that era at the same time I have a hard time understanding why she couldn't see her parents side at all.What parent even now wouldn't be at least upset that she went off like that and got married although I'm not sure it was all that clear they were married.Dinah didn't respect her family or their tradition enough to consider them in making such a rash decisions.
shareIndeed, even today it would be a radical decision for a young woman still living at home to run off and get married. As to whether or not they were actually married, I believe Dinah's father-in-law said they were.
I too can appreciate how, even in that culture and era, some women may very well have resented the role they had in relation to men. However, Dinah seemed to be going past this through leaps and bounds right into modern Western individualism. In a culture such as her's, it was not the individual but the kinship institution that was primary. I don't understand how Dinah could be so unaware of the bedrock principle of familism despite spending her entire life in a collectivistic society in which family integrity would have been valued above all else.
I don't know if she was unaware or didn't care. She talked about it with Rachel at one point.She did think she would do better that way than her mothers.I can't imagine saying something like that too my mother and we are pretty close and blunt .That sounds very hurtful and thinking yourself better. They taught her something she was able to make a life for herself something that I'm sure not many women could have done at that time.She also left her own family and ended up in servitude by trusting her mother-in law. I knew she was being too impulsive but she couldn't be told anything.
The part with her and Jacob I thought she was too harsh with him she was so favored by him other than Joseph.They were the favorites.She was mean toward Joseph as well when he didn't do anything to her.She was very inflexible and unforgiving for a long time.
One thing I really missed in the second half was more of the mothers I wish they could have shown more with them.They said Leah died with her nieces and granddaughters with her I would have liked more with them than just that little bit a the end. I have never been a big fan of Minnie Driver but I don't dislike her either. I like her in some things more than others but I very much enjoyed her as Leah.
I also missed the mothers in the first half and would have liked to see more of how Dinah's leaving affected them. Leah should have been given a death scene (she no doubt would have thought of Dinah as she were dying).
It was odd that while Judah's wife and children appeared at the end, Judah was nowhere to be seen, nor were any of the other brothers. I had assumed that Dinah's final test of forgiveness would be her brothers, not her father. Dinah's resentment of her father was deeply irrational. Jacob acted only to preserve his honor rating and by extension the honor rating of his kinship group. This is something that Dinah should have, would have, understood.
I agree that Dinah came off as if she was of the modern world. Sometimes it can be subtle but this type of drama you can show women of strength and substance but of the era are they are meant to come from.
Judah could have been the one in direct line from his father.He was also the more rational one among the brothers his wife may well have been the leader among the women and girls.I think it would have been more interesting to show more of life after she left,maybe divide the time instead of only focusing on Dinah.
I agree 100%
shareIt was a rash decision, yes, but in no way does that justify murdering the poor guy and carrying out a massacre on the castle. If my brothers murdered my husband, I wouldn't forgive them either, regardless of the cultural norms that drove them to to so. For crying out loud, he was willing to get circumcised for her! If that doesn't show respect for Jacob's culture, I don't know what does.
I thought it was realistic that Dinah lacked the modern anthropologist's insight into the society she grew up in, and thus held her father responsible rather than cultural norms. Even now, the whole "let's blame society" argument doesn't hold up in court. Besides, since when do cultural sensibilities justify murdering your son-in-law? Saying Dinah was to blame for her own problems is nothing short of victim-blaming.
Hello? Cobra Bubbles? Aliens are attacking my house.
Whether it is nice to say it or not, Dinah's husband and his countrymen would have lived had Dinah secured the permission of her father to marry. In reality of course, Dinah would have taken it for granted that the permission of her father was a necessary prerequisite to marriage. As I pointed out in another thread, even the very headstrong Samson asked his parents to arrange his marriage.
I thought it was realistic that Dinah lacked the modern anthropologist's insight into the society she grew up in, and thus held her father responsible rather than cultural norms.
Whether it is nice to say it or not, Dinah's husband and his countrymen would have lived had Dinah secured the permission of her father to marry. In reality of course, Dinah would have taken it for granted that the permission of her father was a necessary prerequisite to marriage. As I pointed out in another thread, even the very headstrong Samson asked his parents to arrange his marriage.When I watched the marriage scene I did not like her decision at all. She was stubborn and wrong; not good. share
Excellent answer! Bravo!
share...by her rash, impertinent (deeply unrealistic) decision to not ask her father's permission to marry
As undeniably present as patriarchy was in Israelite culture, that is not what is at issue here. As I explained in my subsequent contributions to this thread, familism, not patriarchy, is what we are discussing. I pointed out in an earlier post that even the very headstrong, rebellious Samson (of Samson and Delilah lore) asked his parents to arrange his marriage. This isn't about gender.
In any case, I'm an American living in 2016. I won't be arranging the marriages of either of my children and they probably won't ask my permission. That isn't a cause of any tension in my family. However, none of that has any relevance at all to the time, place, and culture that The Red Tent takes place in.
But do you think Jacob's sons went to their father to ask permission when they decided to marry?
shareThey would be expected to ask permission if Jacob hadn't already selected wives for them. In Genesis 24, it is Abraham who sends a slave to find a wife for Issac (Abraham's son, Jacob's father). Again, Abraham does this and not Issac himself, who doesn't even hear the news until the woman has been selected.
share