MovieChat Forums > Justice League: War (2014) Discussion > Is Superman really the big gun of JLA?

Is Superman really the big gun of JLA?


I've just started reading the JLA comics so I might not know that much but is Superman really the strongest hero in this movie? (Batman referred to him as "The big gun"). I thought that title would go to Shazam.

Anyway, what do you think?

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Are you serious? I thought by now that everyone knew that Superman is consider the strongest super hero in the DC Universe. Some would even go as far to say that he is the strongest hero ever created. Shazam (by the way that is not really his name, it is actually Captain Marvel. Shazam was the name of the wizard that gave Billy Batson the power to turn into Captain Marvel.), as I was saying, he is strong and his powers are magic based which is one of Superman's weaknesses but in an all out fight, Superman has beaten Captain Marvel. So to answer the question, Yes Superman is definitely the Justice League's big gun!

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Try reading stories like Superman: Sacrifice. It showed Superman could incapacitate the JLA all by himself.

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His name is Shazam now .. I know I know .. but they changed in the Nu52. Billy is also a jerk now.

Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong.

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Try reading stories like Superman: Sacrifice. It showed Superman could incapacitate the JLA all by himself.


And Batman had plans to incapacitate all members of the JLA. Also Wonder Woman defeated superman.

But Superman is considered to be the most versatile of the bunch. I'm hesitant to say "strongest" because Green Lanten, Flash, and Martian Manhunter all have had their power spikes.



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Wonder Woman never defeated Superman. Don't even bring up Sacrifice, Supes was mind controlled into thinking he was fighting Doomsday, a MUCH different fighter than Wonder Woman. Had he known who he was fighting it would've been a different story. It's the difference between fighting a guy like Triple H and fighting a guy like Donnie Yen. Your strategy for beating Triple H isn't exactly gonna work on Donnie.

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She did defeat superman. And I will bring up Sacrifice. I agree about the tactics but we cant use hindsight in this situation.

Whats the point of a signature?

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I could defeat both of them using the same strategy. Double leg take down plus a bit of ground & pound.

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I could defeat them also! Just grab the comic, movie, or memorabilia and set it on fire. I would love to see you beating the *beep* out of a comic book though!

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He was talking about Triple H or Donnie yen....Lol. Hypothetically, obviously. And he's right, you wouldn't need completely different strategies to defeat either of them so he's mooting the moot point that is definitely moot-y.

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You do know Donnie Yen has incorporated MMA into his martial arts repertoire and could easily avoid your double-leg take down? He's even showcased how to get into and out of various BJJ holds while reversing them into wing chun style counters. He would whip your @$$ from here to Sunday and back before Triple H could even finish saying "I'm-ah, the-ah, gameeeee-ahh!"

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by ss5mmyers

Try reading stories like Superman: Sacrifice. It showed Superman could incapacitate the JLA all by himself.
So did batman and his human, big whoop.

by johndoe3815

Are you serious? I thought by now that everyone knew that Superman is consider the strongest super hero in the DC Universe. Some would even go as far to say that he is the strongest hero ever created. Shazam (by the way that is not really his name, it is actually Captain Marvel. Shazam was the name of the wizard that gave Billy Batson the power to turn into Captain Marvel.), as I was saying, he is strong and his powers are magic based which is one of Superman's weaknesses but in an all out fight, Superman has beaten Captain Marvel. So to answer the question, Yes Superman is definitely the Justice League's big gun!
He ain't that good, a kryptonite sword would cut his head off game over.

If you're talking power based, wonder woman would kill superman easily, her super strength, her fighting skills, just the mere perception of how her character was creator via greek mythology and how powerful Amazons were in REAL LIFE i.e cutting one of their breasts off so they can aim alot more efficiently using a bow and arrow, is enough to proof how dangerous she was. In flash paradox she was unstoppable

she's also magic based which is what superman is weak of, she's far more superior in combat and trained for thousands of years (maybe more) superman can't fight, they rewrote the character saying batman taught him hand-to-hand combat incase he lost his powers again, then rewrote it AGAIN saying he knows some sort of alien-FU

in the JL cartoon diana had practically beaten him to death, his NOT the most powerful in the DC world. In the toons the character AMAZO, {a nano robot} can copy ANY power, then amp it up, then ERASE the weaknesses, then went across the universe and absorbed so much skill/power/knowledge he became unstoppable.in the JL toon he copied all the leagues powers INCLUDING superman. Batman defeated him because his clearly the most intelligent in the team, batman says and i quote: "you get our strength, but you also get our weaknesses" and defeated him with kryptonite which later the OP character amazo evolves around the weakness. God i hate these OP characters that are no different to GOD

and watching the DC showcase mini movies it showed a character spectre who had powers no different to GOD himself and i mean GOD not GOD-LIKE power. These DC characters are like the blue guy on 'watchmen' god with little to NO weakness

so superman is NOT clearly the most powerful in the DC universe, his classified as a leader because of his multiple powers and america has this brainwashed western propaganda garbage of superman being some patriot in the 'red and blue' sh?t hence his the leader to inspire the whole team.

frankly the flash could kill everyone on the team, a sonic boom to supermans superhearing would blow his head off. Even batmans 'how to defeat the JL' audio logs if they were to go AWOL (i saw on youtube, taken off some video game) he can destroy superman and the team EXCEPT maybe diana and flash.

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Dude you have missed the point. People may have beaten him but he IS the most powerful hero in the JL.

You claim about Diana beating him in a fight. Again, it was one fight, and it may have had its restrictions. These questions are general.

So you're right, Flash can beat anyone if he tries, Manhunter can as well and so on and so forth. But they do so by their own techniques. So yes, any member of the JL has the capacity to defeat the other. But it is widely accepted Superman is the biggest-gun.

Clark: Jonathan Kent; isn't it a little past your bedtime?

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how powerful Amazons were in REAL LIFE

. . . You might want to do some research on that subject and not get your facts from comic books and the History Channel. Because you ain't got a clue, kiddo.

He has all the powers, while other's only has one.

Yeah, you don't really know much about Superman or the other heroes, do you? There are quite a few out there with multiple powers, and even many with very similar, almost identical even, powersets as Superman.


As for whether or not Superman is the Big Gun of the JLA, in this movie, clearly he was. Traditionally in comics, it depends on who is in the JLA at the time (Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, and the Martian Manhunter can fight him pretty evenly with the following caveat), the time period in which the comic was written, and the writer of any given issue.

For anyone really interested, just do a search for Superman's powers and find the wikipedia article. His powers have ranged from only being able to leap far (kinda like Hulk) and withstand a bursting shell, to time travel and moving celestial bodies. Hell, one version of Superboy punched reality and broke it.

But as a general answer, yes, he is.

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WORDS MEAN THINGS! Also, before you come to bitch about a plot hole, rewatch the show/movie.

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how powerful Amazons were in REAL LIFE

Amazons were never "real life" it was a story, sure it was told in ancient times but it was just a story. It was ment to amuse and terrify (mostly) men audience. If someone would dug up a comic book in two thousands years do you think people would think "Oh my god this superman tale must be real, I mean they told countless stories of him thousands of years ago!"
Amazons are like werewolf, sirens and minotaurs, part of good story telling since people sat down near the fireplace to tell themselves stories for amusement

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Shazam aka Captain Marvel is equal in strength to Superman.
This film is simply the worst Justice League animated film ever made.
I got it from RedBox instead of buying it and I thank GOD ( if there was one) that I didn't food up and buy it.


Bad films are a crime against humanity.
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That's part of the reason why this new story line is so bad. Fans generally want Superman to be the leader and focal point, but because Batman has become more of a star in both print and live action, he is deferred to much more in the print version. The Batman prior to this reboot would never even ask for Superman for help, much less defer to him in time of crisis.

Technically speaking Superman is not the "big gun." You are correct is stating that that title belongs to Shazam and really Green Lantern, and as it pertains to this story line Cyborg as well. Intellect and will power can defeat Dark Seid not brute strength and cold breath.

It was a poorly written story line in the comic book which translated poorly to the small screen.

Some people are writing about who defeated Superman in the comics and Hal Jordan was one of those individuals and Sup has never been able to defeat Shazam. Not to mention Batman had figured out ways to defeat every member of the Justice League.

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Like some I feel Superman is more or less the JL's big gun cause of the amount of abilities he has, and not just the obvious ones like strength, speed, and flight but also his other "afterthought" abilities like being able to go into space on under the sea for extended periods of time without the use of a special suit or transport or being able to see different wavelengths.

A boat that floats on water can also sink in it.

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Also, Superman is The most intelligent off all of the super heroes. They have toned down hid intellect and powers to make more of the other Justice Leaguers more relevant. If you think about him being almost as fast as the Flash. Anyone fighting him wouldn't be able to touch him in most cases. Plus he doesn't want to be a killing machine so he always holds back. Superman always holds back. Only The Hulk is as powerful as Superman and The Hulk doesn't hold back. But the Hulk would lose to Superman because.you throw out Betty Ross in front of him and he will change back. That's the only way to beat the Hulk is to make.him change back

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Neither Darkseid or Doomsday have superspeed yet they have defeated supes.

Whats the point of a signature?

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I agree that they toned down his intellect which doesn't really bother me except for when people try to paint him as a dumb jock who just punches everything, or when they assume that having kryptonite is the end all choice in a fight against Superman. He actually has a couple of villains that are powered by kryptonite and none of them have been able to defeat him not cause he punches harder but because he outsmarted them.

A boat that floats on water can also sink in it.

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Also the complete invulnerability in any storyline where people haven't gotten hold of what limited quantities of kryptonite would be in existence.

Depending on which version you're looking at, he's one of the most OP character in the DC universe (pre-80's he was basically a god) although he loses out to characters at the level of Doctor Manhattan but that's because that character was designed to be completely OP to the point of godhood.

To put his powers into perspective, the Marvel parody of him (Sentry) was so powerful he fought the Hulk to a standstill during World War Hulk (they both reverted to human form because they ran out their energy) but then later in Siege when he went bad, he killed a god with his bare hands, then took pretty much all the other heroes to take him down. (That said, at one point he'd been shown to have Doctor Manhattan-level powers, so he wasn't a perfect copy of Supe's abilities)

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There's Superman, and then there's everyone else.

Shazam is a joke.

Before we get started, does anyone want to get out?

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There's a simple way to answer it. Batman claimed Superman was the big gun. Superman and Batman have been shown to be able to subjugate the world by themselves as seen in Superman/Batman: Absolute Power. So Superman is the big gun.

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"Plus he doesn't want to be a killing machine so he always holds back. Superman always holds back."

That's something the Justice League tv show added in to justify Superman getting his handed to him by the fused Darkseid/Brainiac and then suddenly being able to kick ass again.

When Superman faces foes like Darkseid, Doomsday etc he should not be holding back. The whole point of those foes has always been that they push his abilities to new limits.

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Brainiac did not fuse with Darkseid in the JL TV series; he fused with Lex Luthor.

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He fused with Darksied afterwards in the final season.

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No he didn't. Luthor suffered a psychotic break and thought he was resurrecting Brainiac, but all he did was create a boom tube that brought Darksied and his parademons back to Earth. Darksied was fully himself.

Also, Batman's been the de facto leader of the JLA for decades now. The continuity has been so screwed up over time that people weren't even sure who the members were, but after Infinite Crisis and Flashpoint, Bats has been very clearly running the show.

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As a side, I just rewatched the JL and JL Unlimited series last month, Luthor doesn't create a boom tube, he's aiming to resurrect Brainiac and (presumably because genetic material from Darkseid remained in the spot) winds up resurrecting Darkseid instead. You're right that they aren't "together", but Darkseid comes back and basically says "you brought me back, so I give you a quick death", then booms himself back to Apokolips right in the middle of a huge battle and brings all his armies under his control again. Then, using those armies he launches an attack on earth. Luthor and his crew were floating through space and hijacked a motherbox from one of the New Gods and boom themselves back to earth right before Darkseid shows up to warn the Justice League...then they end up fighting together, luthor goes and gets the antilife equation and just kind of "gives it" to Darkseid and they kind of just disappear. Don't quite know if that's supposed to mean they died, or they just teleported elsewhere, or they became some new form of life or what...never really explains.

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who thought themselves good because
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Shazam (Captain Marvel) is by no means a joke. He has been able to go toe to toe with Superman and in some cases (only shown in comics) actually win.

There are several heroes that give him a run for his money, or can even beat him. Martian Manhunter is one of those that can take him. Wonder Woman is near as strong and picks up the slack by being a better fighter. Green Lanterns have been criminally underplayed in their appearances in tv and films, and they can beat him (it's happened before). Then there's Dr Fate.

Superman is indeed insanely powerful but I'd say his power is almost as overrated in the DC universe as the Hulk's is in Marvel. Don't get me wrong he's still a heavy hitter, and being called the big gun isn't completely unjust especially if we're talking about the appearances in the animated shows/movies. But he's not on some level that makes him untouchable by villains or other heroes. Speaking of villains, in the old days Superman giving his all against Darkseid still wasn't enough.

But basing it on this representation (and most of the films and stuff) in this, he is posed as the biggest player.

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He is the big gun. Notice when he came back how he started man handling Darkseid by himself. Of course the writers could not have him just defeat the villain. It wouldn't be fair to the other heroes which I agree. Think of it this way......The guy holds back in most of his fights yet he still looks powerful.

As for the JL series the creators got it right at the end when he was facing Darkseid even though they played him down a lot for the most part in the series in favor of Bruce Timm's' favorite: Batman.

Oh and the "this character has kryptonite, they can take down Superman" argument keeps ignoring the fact that Superman has long range powers which means he does not need to get close in order to handle someone with kryptonite.

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As for the JL series the creators got it right at the end when he was facing Darkseid even though they played him down a lot for the most part in the series in favor of Bruce Timm's' favorite: Batman.


WW and MM are downplayed the most. WW rarely displays her super strength. She fights more like Batgirl. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGW7BkKlqgM
Compare her to Superman http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FltJckwjMco

MM has numerous powers making him very versatile yet he always gets sidelined because, well, he's a boring character and who can relate to a Martian intellectual anyway?

Oh and the "this character has kryptonite, they can take down Superman" argument keeps ignoring the fact that Superman has long range powers which means he does not need to get close in order to handle someone with kryptonite.


Unless he can KEEP them away he's still got problems.

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Shazam/Captain Marvel should technically beat Superman. Marvel is powered by gods, and has his strength, speed, invulnerability, plus being magical Superman should be vulnerable to his attacks.

Also, Marvel has the coolest powers, the Wisdom of Solomon.

There are also vague shape shifting powers and immortality/near immortality.

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Superman is really the big gun. It is a well known fact that Superman is the strongest superhero.

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Superman is the strongest superhero.

Oh, oh, oh. You have to be a little more specific when you say stuff like that. At least say, "Superman is the strongest superhero in DC." Coz the situation pretty much changes when you include marvel.

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I will say Superman is the strongest superhero.
Many versions say Superman have limitless superpowers. Especially the silver age Superman.

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