If a fourth film were to be green-lit... - Rurôni Kenshin: Densetsu no saigo-hen (2014) Discussion

[–] OmegaWolf747 9 years ago

I would hope for a Jinchuu adaptation with periodic flashbacks to the BattousaixTomoe story.

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House. My room. Cant walk. My medal. My father. Father, dont!

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[–] eamonlahrach 9 years ago

Basically, what I'd love is for a fourth and fifth film to be filmed together like Kyoto Inferno and The Legend Ends.

Fourth film - Trust & Betrayal: An exclusively prequel film. Begins from when Kenshin is taken in by Hiko Seijuro till after the Battle of Toba-Fushimi when he departs Kyoto after visiting Tomoe's grave. If the film can portray Kenshin slowly descending into the depths of inhumanity. Show how every time he's cutting people down the black hole inside of him keeps getting larger and larger. I'd love for the symbolic curse to be kept too - the unhealing scar. And develop the relationship between Kenshin and Tomoe. Saito cameos would be awesome. Would love to see a bit of his view from the Shinsengumi. And have a Shishio pre-burns cameo. Also Show how Tomoe begins with pure silent hatred toward Kenshin then upon experiencing Kenshin's humanity returning, falls in love with him. They could have Enishi in the film too. To prepare for the fifth film.

Fifth film - Jinchu: Although I feel this arc in the manga (excluding the flashbacks to Bakumatsu) wasn't as strong as Kyoto arc, it still deserves a film. Perhaps with some changes to the story. It's supposed to show Kenshin finally settling down in Tokyo with his relationship with Kaoru very strong, only for it to be cruelly shattered when Kaoru is supposedly murdered by Enishi.Showing Kenshin with a dead personality with chains surrounding his sword would be awesome. Enishi returning as an adult will directly link the film to the fourth. Return of Saito and Aoshi would be cool too. As well as a Shishio-from-hell cameo scene.

Kyoto arc was Kenshin reconciling with the part he played in the Bakumatsu. Jinchu arc is more personal, Kenshin reconciling with what he left behind and its consequences.

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[–] johnny-rose 9 years ago

But this is "The Legend Ends". I wish there was a fourth one and fifth one, etc. But I don't think so

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[–] lisztwong 9 years ago

I thought the same, and I think that this is probably the last one, especially since they released two movies in one year.

However The Legend Ends is a line that Hoji says. when Kenshin is about to be executed. Also to signify that the Battousai no longer exists, just Himura Kenshin

Kenshin already went through the omg-Kaoru-is-dead-its-my-fault phase, not as dramatically as in the manga, but still.

I would like the Jinchuu Arc to be filmed, but it seems unnecessary.

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[–] johnny-rose 9 years ago

I just saw the movie and Kenshin pretty much proposes to Kaoru after he asks her "Do you want to settle down" so that's pretty much an ending.

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[–] jp3183 9 years ago

Ever seen Jerry Maguire? The main couple gets married at the middle of the movie, not the end.

It's really no different than Kenshin saying that he's home at the end of the first film. Their bond keeps getting stronger at the conclusion of each arc. If anything, it's actually setting up the cruelty of Jinchu.

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[–] jp3183 9 years ago

The Jinchu Arc is actually more necessary than the Kyoto Arc given that it reveals the Battousai's entire history.

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[–] cis-opmi 9 years ago

I think the Enishi saga should just be made as an animation rather than a movie. IMO, the Jinchu Arc wasn't as great and people just hype around it because it was never released. I just thought the story of some kid who grew up just to seek vegence for his dead sister is kinda lame.

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[–] jp3183 9 years ago

You're oversimplifying it like the OVA's though. That's like me describing the Kyoto Arc as the story of some guy who wants to get back at the government for betraying him. *yawn* The Jinchu Arc is by far Kenshin's greatest emotional trial. Both in the flashbacks and present day. And one that contains major developments for the supporting characters.

IMO, many people (not saying you in particular) also tend to undermine it b/c it was never properly adapted. Trying to convince themselves that it's not that good so that they don't feel like they're missing anything critical.

When you think about it, the Kyoto Arc is actually more disposable than the Jinchu Arc in terms of the main character's journey. It's pretty much a given that there will be a story behind Kenshin's scar and his vow not to kill. Kenshin's main development in the Kyoto Arc is leaving behind his Battousai persona. Which could've easily been explored further by Enishi since that was the persona that killed his sister, and also b/c he was after Kaoru.

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[–] cis-opmi 9 years ago

A person falling into terrorism due to being betrayed by the government is actually something that has happened in reality, allot of times therefore it is allot better than a story of some dude being top tier villain all because of losing his sister.

I have not seen the OVA (the one that contains clips of the jinchu arch) but have read the manga, the onlything great about it was reading Kenshin, Saito, Sano and Aoishi fighting with each other again but the story was too much of a diary like of story.

Kyoto arc was the best arc and ten times better than the jinchu arc because of it's realism. It wasn't just the shishio conflict, but kenshin's inner demons, aoishi's demons, etc etc. I'm not saying it isn't a good arc, but i don't think it is worth a movie. It is at better as a new ova.

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[–] jp3183 9 years ago

Nobody wrote the rule that realism is always better. Otherwise, might as well get rid of bullcrap such as spontaneous human combustion or a giant man the size of a building. And power being rooted in vengeance is nothing new. As even the popular character Vito Corleone from The Godfather franchise rose to power due to the tragedy of losing his family. I'm sure that has happened in real life as well. As personal vengeance is more common than terrorism.

I'm not here to argue which arc is better. I like both just fine. However, what cannot be denied is that the Jinchu Arc is the single most important story of RK. It's not just a story of vengeance but Kenshin's story as a whole. It's the one that tells of how he became a hitokiri and eventually into a rurouni. Characters come full circle as their past connects w/ their future. It's the one story that leaves a gaping hole in the series if never adapted. The true significance of the cross-shaped scar. As much as I love the Kyoto Arc, you don't really miss much of Kenshin's story if you don't adapt it. His acquaintances will change, but his journey remains the same.

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[–] cis-opmi 9 years ago

Jinchu Arc being important doesn't mean it is worth a film or would be as entertaining as an adaptation of the Kyoto arc. I really don't care if you think of some plot points in the Kyoto arc, the main reason of Enishi being to avenge his sister is seriously lame.

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[–] jp3183 9 years ago

Importance = worth. Since they already made six OVA's about it, and intended to make an entire season adapting it, there's absolutely no reason to deny it as a part of this franchise except personal bias. No matter what you think of Enishi's motivation, the arc itself is about Kenshin. Moreso than the Kyoto Arc.

It's quite clear by the end of this film that the overall story has yet to resolve itself. Kenshin & Kaoru's relationship is just getting started. Hence, it's pretty obvious that they're leaving room for a final adaptation.

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[–] cis-opmi 9 years ago

Importance =/= a good film. I don't get why that has passed over your head. You are repeating your replies of how important the arc is, when that was not disagreed on, yet fail to connect it with the argument of movie translation.

The arc itself will not translate well because of the general plot which is Enishin just wanting revenge for his sister who died so many years ago. It is a lame plot for a villain especially for those who have not watched/knew the anime. Shishio's plot was a realistic type, something we see in actual real life and actual movies therefore it can actually reach a much better audience, which it did. The arc was not as entertaining even in the manga in comparison to the kyoto arc. Shishio was just more in the realism that even former rivals of kenshin went side by side with him in taking him down.

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[–] jp3183 9 years ago

Actually, you just replaced the word "worth" w/ "a good film" as if they mean the same thing. The arc is worth adapting as it has already translated well to the OVA's, is in demand by many fans, and is critical in actually telling Kenshin's story. The quality of the film, however, depends on the filmmaker. It has nothing to do w/ your personal bias.

Speaking of repeating your replies, your entire 2nd paragraph has already been addressed:

Nobody wrote the rule that realism is always better. Otherwise, might as well get rid of bullcrap such as spontaneous human combustion or a giant man the size of a building. And power being rooted in vengeance is nothing new. As even the popular character Vito Corleone from The Godfather franchise rose to power due to the tragedy of losing his family. I'm sure that has happened in real life as well. As personal vengeance is more common than terrorism...No matter what you think of Enishi's motivation, the arc itself is about Kenshin. Moreso than the Kyoto Arc.

Your opinion has been noted, but it looks like the franchise is already headed for the final arc.

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[–] cis-opmi 9 years ago

It does mean the same thing in terms of the context, we are taking about it being translated as a movie hense the title of this thread being "if a 4th film were to be green lit.. I have no idea why you made a difference of that in the first sentence and then go back arguing why they should make it as a movie. It doesn't matter if the fans want to see it because as a movie, a plot where the big bad villain is just so big and bad because he misses his sister and wants revenge for that is lame and would only appeal to RK fans.

The examples of the godfather rising to losing his family is not shallow as the Enishi arc.

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[–] jp3183 9 years ago

Because, once again, you're oversimplifying it:

That's like me describing the Kyoto Arc as the story of some guy who wants to get back at the government for betraying him. *yawn* The Jinchu Arc is by far Kenshin's greatest emotional trial. Both in the flashbacks and present day. And one that contains major developments for the supporting characters.

Enishi this, Enishi that. Newsflash, he wasn't on every page of the manga. Again, the arc is Kenshin's story.

Also, you don't speak for the rest of the audience. Just b/c you don't like it doesn't mean that they won't. Martial arts filmmakers have practically made a living off of vengeance stories.

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[–] cis-opmi 9 years ago

You keep giving this information about how the manga is "Enishi this, Enishi that. Newsflash, he wasn't on every page of the manga. Again, the arc is Kenshin's story. " where in the hell did you see me say he was on every page of the manga. I am stating about the arc in general, it's like you are so mad that you can't string logical or coherent replies anymore.

You can't even put an understnding on the main point that the arc would not make a good movie because only RK fans will like it. Such a simple sentence passes over your head. A villain throwing out vegence over a sister who died long ago is too soap opera like, lets not leave out the scenes in the manga where he goes moping by himself and remembering the events he witnessed when he was a little kid. Are they going to pop out a 4v1 on him again like against Shishio in the Legend ends, so all 4 of them will help Kenshin take down some guy who is moping about his sister? Or they will just make it a 1v1 which would show a villain that is inferior to the one in the previous movie (since it took 4 to even things up with Shishio). The arc was not better at all that the Kyoto arc, it is highly raved on because of it never airing and being left in the imaginations of the fans but in general, even the manga of the Kyoto arc had better plot points. You have not been able to go in context, and the first sentences you make is "newsflash the manga is/isn't like this" which is so far from the points i've been making.

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[–] jp3183 9 years ago

What you just said pretty much proves my point. You're still stuck on Enishi as if the arc is solely about him. Once again, it's Kenshin's story. His past, present, and future. His retribution for his crimes. That's the main draw of the arc. And if you've read the manga, you'd know that the fight w/ Enishi didn't go down like Shishio's. It's a personal battle, not a war. kevin_li00 hit it on the head w/ his post.

I've already addressed the fact that you don't speak for the rest of the audience since stories involving characters who dedicated their whole life for vengeance have always been popular especially in martial arts films. What you see as "lame" is exciting for other moviegoers. Hence, the claim that only RK fans will like it doesn't hold any water. RK's themes are based on traditional stories to begin with.

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[–] kevin_li00 9 years ago

I'd like a traditional revenge story, and Enishi fits the bill just fine. Jinei and Shishio were basically the antithesis of what Kenshin used to be on the surface without much personal connection. There's really nothing better than for the main character to be regularly preaching the "violence begets violence" speech just to have his past violent acts catching up to him on a personal level. I can see it done within two films if they streamline the six comrades just like how the stories about individual Juppongatana were weeded out in the past two films.

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[–] dy_namite03 9 years ago

I would prefer the story of Shōgo Amakusa and the story of the Black Knights, it would be interesting to see the threat outside Japan coming to Kenshin.

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[–] MrsBuckyBarnes 9 years ago

I would love to see the trust betrayal ova adapted. Sadly that anime has spoiled me for anything else. I watched that first and both the series and the films pale in comparison imo. I wish I felt otherwise though. I wish I had loved the series but I couldn't get through it.

Never, never to be squandered...the miracle of another human being.

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[–] jp3183 9 years ago

If you're going to settle w/ the OVA then I'm afraid you've only seen the butchered version of the story. The Jinchu Arc starts at chapter 152 of the manga, and Remembrance at 165 (btw, manga pages are read from right to left): http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Rurouni-Kenshin/152?id=29650

Note: RK manga scans are being taken down online. So read them now while you can.

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[–] macedoniall 9 years ago

I saw an interview on youtube with the director and he has stated interest in a Trust and Betrayal movie.

I will not fear, fear is the mind killer

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[–] eamonlahrach 9 years ago

I would be ever so grateful if you could link this interview.

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[–] Gadget110 9 years ago

This argument comes up so often for RK fans, and to be quite frank no one has ever gotten an adaptation of the third arc(Jinchu arc)right as the anime skipped it, and the OVA "Reflections" is a pile of garbage that pretty much craps on the entire series with OOC BS and stupidity.

A film where Kenshin's past comes back to bite him in the ass is a good idea since the manga is the only place anyone gets a good true look at the final story arc. While it is kinda less exciting then the Kyoto arc the stakes are far more personal which is what really made it so good. Enishi is not another assassin/manslayer like Jin-e or Shishio but a guy who's life Kenshin directly effected inadvertently but also had a bone to pick with him even before he lost his sister.

I think they should do a 4th film based on the "Trust and Betrayal" story and a 5th which would be the Jinchū Arc unless they combine the two like in the manga but most are so familiar with the OVA "T&B" it might be best to have to separate films.

"Always two there are , a master and an apprentice"

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