MovieChat Forums > Outlander (2014) Discussion > The Fiery Cross (Book 5)

The Fiery Cross (Book 5)


I am going to start this book tonight or this weekend, and I am wondering people's opinions on it. I read a vague synopsis that didn't contain too many actual spoilers, and it looks good.

Is it fair to say that it's a bit more action packed and maybe a quicker read than Drums of Autumn? I know the first bit with the longest day ever might not be, but after that it seems like a lot of intriguing stuff happens.

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"How do you know this?"
"That's what I do... I drink, and I know things."

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I know the first bit with the longest day ever might not be


I actually loved Part 1. I hope you will, too.

but after that it seems like a lot of intriguing stuff happens.


Book #5 is focused more on domestic stuff. Political and war stuff happens, of course.

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At the point of Crisis and Annihilation, Survival is Victory- Dunkirk

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Opinions vary on this one. I like the book a lot and actually liked it better than Drums of Autumn. In Drums I love the part where Jamie and Claire go and start living on the Ridge and then when Brianna arrives. I really don't like the whole Brianna/Roger/Bonnet drama though.

In Fiery Cross a lot of people hate the first part and I seem to be one of the few, who loves it. It's about a million pages of one single day  (I don't know the exact number, but it is indeed very long).

There're very dramatic things also happening in the Fiery Cross later on. One part is so traumatic, that I haven't completely read it so far, it was just too horrific! I know what happens and I skipped through it, reading part of it, but I didn't feel able to read it all, so feel warned.

My ranking of the books is:

1. Voyager
2. Outlander
3. Written in my own heart's blood
4. Fiery Cross
5. Drums of Autumn
6. A Breat of Snow and Ashes
7. Dragonfly in Amber
8. An echo in the bone


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Andorra - Echo in the Bone is bottom on my list as well. I have not read any of the Lord John books, and there are so many characters and story lines from that series (or so it seems) in Echo, that I just had to skip big hunks of the book, because I knew nothing of the things/characters/issues discussed. I felt like I needed a scorecard to keep track.

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I actually have read the LJG books, but I was just so bored with all the military stuff. And William in the great dismal was just SO BORING. I really had a hard time getting through this one.

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My ranking of the books is:

1. Voyager
2. Outlander
3. Written in my own heart's blood
4. Fiery Cross
5. Drums of Autumn
6. A Breat of Snow and Ashes
7. Dragonfly in Amber
8. An echo in the bone


My Ranking:

1. Outlander
2. Voyager
3. A Breath of Snow and Ashes
4. Written in In My Own Heart's Blood
5. Drums of Autumn
6. Dragonfly in Amber
7. The Fiery Cross
8. An Echo in the Bone

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At the point of Crisis and Annihilation, Survival is Victory- Dunkirk

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So far, my order is:

1. Outlander
2. Voyager
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.
.
3. Dragonfly in Amber
.
.
.
4. Drums of Autumn

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"How do you know this?"
"That's what I do... I drink, and I know things."

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Of all the books in the series, "The Fiery Cross" and "Echo in the Bone" were the most difficult to get through. In fact, The Fiery Cross was a horrible slog to get beyond just the Gathering that took like 500 pages to get through a couple of days in the story. If you ever wanted to know the minutia of 18th traveling away from home, with small children in diapers, breastfeeding mothers and other feminine maladies...this first hunk will satisfy you immensely. Or make you want to poke your eardrums with knitting needles... YMMV

That said, the book does introduce Adso, the cat that Jamie gives Claire when they get back to the Ridge, Major McDonald, Adso's obsession with Major McDonald's wig, and the War of Regulation - of which I knew nothing, and am now glad I do.

I don't hate this book, but it's not among my favorites, either.

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Thank you for all of the answers so far, Andorra and krish_rocker too!

Seems like maybe the synopsis I read made the book sound way more exciting than it is! Oh well, I'll at least start it and see what I think. I guess I was hoping someone would say "oh, it's back to the greatness of 'Outlander' and 'Voyager' and everyone loves it!" LOL!

If you ever wanted to know the minutia of 18th traveling away from home, with small children in diapers, breastfeeding mothers and other feminine maladies...this first hunk will satisfy you immensely. Or make you want to poke your eardrums with knitting needles...

I'm thinking I'll need to go find the knitting needles... I don't need to know all of that. (My phrases I use here are "shove a fork in my eye" or "light myself on fire." 😝)

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"How do you know this?"
"That's what I do... I drink, and I know things."

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It's my modern take on the Sioux women poking their sewing awls in Custer's ears after Little Big Horn so he can hear the people better in the after life... would I rather do X or poke out my eardrums?

My favorites in order:
1) outlander
2) drums of autumn (it came out a year after my father passed, and it's such a Daddy/Daughter book...it has a warm spot in my heart)
3) dragonfly
4) voyager
5) moby/bosaa
7) fiery cross
8) echo in the bone...of which I skipped massive passages and didn't read all the way through, and have not repeated. I have read all the other books multiple times.

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I liked the whole book and there is quite a bit of humor in the "longest day ever" section.

There are battles, a couple of will he/she make it parts and lots of the ridge.

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Inn in the group that actually likes the longest day ever part of Fiery Cross, I think it just comes down to how you feel about the more domestic "slice of life" parts.

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Just recently finished it. I thought it was slow going at first, but seemed to pick up after a while. Quite a few places where I laughed. Mainly at parts with Germaine or Jemmy in it. Especially toward the end of the book. Won't spoil it, but picturing Jemmy doing the one thing when Jaime & Roger were building a pigpen, & a little while after that when Claire was trying to explain genetics & Jemmy joined in asking what the one word meant. Thought both parts were hilarious.
Don't know how many others who've read the book have teared up, but I was misty eyed at the pigpen part & just after. You'll know what I mean when you get to it. Even being a guy, I just couldn't help tearing up a little.

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Quite a few places where I laughed.


Me too. In fact my favourite funny scene of the whole book series is in this book - the microscope scene with the sperms. 

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When people said it started with the longest day ever, they sure weren't kidding. Some of these scenes are so inconsistent that they don't even make sense. And DG repeats herself with explanations. It's as if she wrote this book in chapters, as I'm sure many writers do, but forgot about what she wrote in the previous one. Or maybe hadn't even written the previous one yet, because I also get the sense she wrote it all out of order.

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When people said it started with the longest day ever, they sure weren't kidding. Some of these scenes are so inconsistent that they don't even make sense. And DG repeats herself with explanations. It's as if she wrote this book in chapters, as I'm sure many writers do, but forgot about what she wrote in the previous one. Or maybe hadn't even written the previous one yet, because I also get the sense she wrote it all out of order.
I think she does not write in linear fashion from an outline or storyboard. She has stated that she writes in bits and pieces and whenever she thinks of something she writes it down. I think this contributes greatly to the rambling and many unnecessary scenes that makes the books so tedious. When you think about, you can tell that this is the way she writes; sometimes jumping from one thing to another without any real connection or transition. It feels as though she has all of these bits and pieces of what she thinks are great scenes and just throws them together.

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Her conversations between her characters don't even make sense sometimes. They have the same conversation again that they just had that morning. Or, worse yet IMO, is that they have a conversation that's the exact contradiction to actions or a conversation they just had. My head would be spinning, except the book is so slow paced, I'm just shaking my head instead.

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"How do you know this?"
"That's what I do... I drink, and I know things."

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Her conversations between her characters don't even make sense sometimes. They have the same conversation again that they just had that morning. Or, worse yet IMO, is that they have a conversation that's the exact contradiction to actions or a conversation they just had. My head would be spinning, except the book is so slow paced, I'm just shaking my head instead.
LOL. This is bound to happen if you write in bits and pieces without an outline or an idea of where you are going. So many people have said that her editor should surely catch all of these. But I'm beginning to think that maybe the editors have cut so much already that they are embarrassed to keep cutting. Or maybe she just refuses to listen to them. IDK

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I don't think the editors necessarily needed to keep cutting, but to say "hey, this part makes no sense, care to revise it?" wouldn't have hurt. 😛

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"How do you know this?"
"That's what I do... I drink, and I know things."

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FC is dead last on my list, only book I haven't reread, and wonder if they do the 5th season from it if I have the strength to try again, Slog doesn't even begin to explain it.



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Please ask Mrs G about that. I hear she reacts fantastically well to criticism 

In all honesty though, I have stopped wondering about editors (as long as texts are grammatically sound and the spelling is correct that is). My friend is an editor and from what she tells me, the chief editor at her publishing house cowers before the authors and let's them do whatever they want. I guess it's a question of character with editors as much as anyone else.

GRR...ARGH!

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Haha... yeah... I've noticed. But considering these are the first novels she's ever written, she should take some constructive criticism.

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"How do you know this?"
"That's what I do... I drink, and I know things."

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My friend is an editor and from what she tells me, the chief editor at her publishing house cowers before the authors and let's them do whatever they want.

I honestly believe this is true and Diana's books would certainly support this opinion. There is absolutely too much stuff in her books that really needed to be left out. You would think she was just filling up space to make a bigger book so she could charge more.

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The Fiery Cross is one of my favorites, but I have to admit that I've learned to love it, and really, I only love the second half. The first half is a bit of a slog, and I despise the section with the abused wife and her stricken/bed-ridden husband.

But this isn't a book that can be skipped. There's really a lot that happens in this book that resonates in later books.

I noticed that a lot of you rank Echo last on your list. I do, too. It's too fractured of a book for me, too many storylines. And too far away from the Ridge. I may be different from other readers, but I like the domestic stuff, and I like it when the Frasers are on the Ridge. Jamie self-describes himself always as a farmer. He knows he's many things, but "farmer" and "laird" is how he always thinks of himself. When they're away from the Ridge and gallivanting all over the place, I feel like it takes him away from who he is at the core.

Plus...I really don't like William. I keep hoping I'll warm to him, but I really don't like him, and there was too much of him in Echo.

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Plus...I really don't like William. I keep hoping I'll warm to him, but I really don't like him, and there was too much of him in Echo.

I cannot warm up to William either. He was a little snot as a young child, and he's arrogant (to me, anyways) when he gets older. We periodically see some of his good qualities, like helping the two young girls (can't remember their names...in the latter books). Jamie helps him on occasion, but he never seems appreciative of his help...he never "warms" up to Jamie. Maybe that will change in Book 9. Right now, he's pretty low on my Favorite Character list.

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Once I got through the longest day ever, I liked The Fiery Cross. Echo (Book 7)
was my most unfavorite book of the series. Too many subplots off of the Ridge for me to stay interested.

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I cannot warm up to William either.

Sad that the characters who seem to be least liked are Jamie's biological children. I have trouble liking Bree, less trouble with William, but he needs to get over his animosity toward Jamie. I don't like that. But I love the other children of Jamie, the "sort of" adopted ones, Fergus, Marsali, Young Ian-the children of his heart, I guess.

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Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the biologics were never under Jamie's influence. Yes, William had a few years, but not really direct influence...others had the care and raising of William with Jamie on the periphery. Bree had no contact until her early twenties. The children of his heart were all with him more directly...Marsali for a short time when she was younger, but remember she was still young when she married and under Jamie's influence from that point on. Just a thought...

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Wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the biologics were never under Jamie's influence.


I think you are right.

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I think you're right, also. Bree had at least one biological parent in her upbringing, but I think she was still spoiled by Frank and I don't think Claire was much of a disciplinarian. Once she was told the truth from Claire, yes, she was bitter and obnoxious and in denial. She mellowed after the initial shock of seeing Geillis going through the stones and witnessed the truth. When she meets Jamie, acceptance is immediate....she was "forewarned", I guess you could say. (I like Bree in the later books). William on the other hand...well, his first meeting with Jamie was completely by accident and a great shock. He could never come to grips that he truly was not the "Earl" he thought he was, but the bastard of a Scottish traitor...his pride was shattered, and he seems to still be in denial through Book 8. Andorra says that Book 9 is the William/Jaime storyline. I certainly hope so because I would like to see them on good terms.

(It seemed to me that the Dunsanys were almost afraid to discipline William [maybe because of his "title"?] and let him run rampant. Jamie did discipline him once in the stable by paddling his behind, but William was pretty young and thus no great impact.)

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We're hoping the William/Jamie storyline is in book 9 but there's no guarantee that it will be.

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I am in the minority, but even though I never completely warmed to Bree so far, I really like William. He is pig headed and stubborn and arrogant, but I think he'll grow to be a wonderful man once he'll get over his Fraser stubbornness and will get closer to Jamie.

William/Jamie is actually the storyline in book 9, that I'm looking forward to the most.

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William/Jamie is actually the storyline in book 9, that I'm looking forward to the most.

I am, too, but only if it goes the way I want it to go! Lol
I'm also looking forward to learning about why Roger and Bree are there and if they go back to the 1980s first. Will they stay? I really hope Bree brought immunizations for all the children, if possible.

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More than anything, I'd like to see Jenny's reaction to Roger..

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At the point of Crisis and Annihilation, Survival is Victory- Dunkirk

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That will be an interesting one.

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I'm also looking forward to learning about why Roger and Bree are there and if they go back to the 1980s first.

That will be interesting. If I get your gist, there will have to be some timeline corrections, more passages through the stones. How this will be accomplished was not revealed at the end of Book 8. Let me know if you want my opinion on this, for what it's worth, and we can compare notes.

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I don't think Bree and Roger went back to the 1980s before they went to the Ridge. There was no reason to and Bree had already set things up with Joe A. to take care of Lallybroch and other financial stuff before she went to find Roger.

There's also a bit in book 9 daily lines where Bree states they showed up with little more than the clothes on their backs. Had they gone back to the 1980s surely Bree and Roger would have brought along more stuff when they went through the stones to 1770s.

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I'd venture to say they're there because of Rob Cameron (I have a nasty feeling we'll see him in the past) in the 1980's and because with Amanda's heart fixed they could go back and be with family.

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He is pig headed and stubborn and arrogant, but I think he'll grow to be a wonderful man once he'll get over his Fraser stubbornness and will get closer to Jamie.

William/Jamie is actually the storyline in book 9, that I'm looking forward to the most.


Yes, I really want him to get close to Jamie again. He loved him when he was a boy, so I'm sure it will happen eventually.

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When they meet up again, maybe Jamie will start telling stories about what happened when William young and that will remind William how much Jamie cared for him and bring them closer.

I'm amazed that William doesn't associate Claire and Jamie both with his visit to the Ridge. He remembers falling in the privy, but he doesn't seem to remember Jamie and Claire being there.

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Wait... he doesn't remember Jamie? This is clearly a conversation that is beyond where I am in the books, but he went on that multi-day trip with Jamie to the burned out Indian village, while Claire nursed LJG back to health. How can William not remember any of that? He wasn't a small child, he was about 12.

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"How do you know this?"
"That's what I do... I drink, and I know things."

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He remembers Jamie and Claire.. He just doesn't want to recall that experience on the ridge.. One of the worst moments of William's life, that is.

When after William meets Brianna for the first time, LJG recalls William of the ridge incident and William says that same thing, that he was very successful in putting that part of his life out of his mind and thanks (sarcastically) LJG for reminding it again.

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At the point of Crisis and Annihilation, Survival is Victory- Dunkirk

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Sad that the characters who seem to be least liked are Jamie's biological children. I have trouble liking Bree...

I haven't seen much of William yet to be able to comment, but I sure don't like Bree so far. Fergus and Young Ian are my favorites. Marsali is just there in the background for now.

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"How do you know this?"
"That's what I do... I drink, and I know things."

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I have trouble liking Bree


LOVE Bree! Liked her from the first. I think she's intelligent, headstrong, physical, outspoken. She's very much her mother's daughter in that way, and like with her mother, it's difficult to reconcile her personality with the times. But her mother fits into the 18th century better because of her vagabond upbringing with her uncle. Bree is a more modern woman. I think she loves being with her parents, but she's a fish out of water there in the past. I also feel a lot of empathy for her. Her identity was set -- for 19 years, she knew herself to be a specific person, the product of this man and this woman, and she adored Frank. And then her identity suddenly got tossed on its head: in some significant ways, she's not the person she thought she was. She's curious about Jamie, she loves him...but does that make her disloyal to Frank? I have a lot of empathy for her emotional struggle and everything she's had to reconcile.

I think Bree has more complexity to her backstory than Claire does, frankly, and I also think she's judged harshly sometimes by readers who expect her to be an exact replica of her mother or her father.

I know that's part of my thing with William. I want him to be a bit more like his father, and instead, he just strikes me (too frequently) as being self-centered and immature and more than a little whiny and self-pitying. To me, Bree is ENOUGH like her parents that the ways she's different don't detract, but William is so UNLIKE his father that that's all I see. My secret wish is that in the next book, Bree and William will have a heart-to-heart and she will help him get over himself.

ETA: I've been reading these books since 1991 -- 25 years! -- so the characters are often more fixed in my head as they appear in the later books, rather than in the earlier books.

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My secret wish is that in the next book, Bree and William will have a heart-to-heart and she will help him get over himself.

That's my exact thought.. I've mentioned this in other thread long time back..😃👍

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At the point of Crisis and Annihilation, Survival is Victory- Dunkirk

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