Triple BAFTA Scotland nominations for Sam, Cait and Outlander - Outlander (2014) Discussion

[–] maxine3 8 years ago

@ Souleiado1, I hope you won't feel offended if I stick to my congratulations in this thread concerning the same subject which I posted here 13 hours ago.

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[–] Souleiado1 8 years ago

Not at all , why would I 

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

Not at all , why would I

Phew, so relieved to know you’re not too thin-skinned… even in the event the penny happens to drop... 😌

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[–] coolsoul 8 years ago

Yesssssssssssss, congratulations to Sam, Cait and Outlander for the nominations in the Bafta Awards, I`m so happy that they are starting to recognize the amazing job Sam and Cait are doing in Outlander.   

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[–] laura1-07 8 years ago

Congratulations. I didn't know that there were Scottish BAFTAs.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

BAFTA has quite a few "regional divisions" including LA and New York. My friend's son has also been nominated for a Scottish BAFTA this year. It's an honour but it's not the same as getting an actual BAFTA.

ScottishKate, looking at it in perspective I don't think that BAFTA Scotland is less 'actual' than the national version. It would be understating its significance.
BAFTA.org works on a much broader level and covers the UK and the US. BAFTA Scotland’s ambition is focused, a.o., on activities promoting its film and TV industry in Scotland and make it known abroad as well. It’s interesting to read the mission statements of both. One sees immediately that the high-quality standards ("gold standard") are for both, the national and the Scottish awards identical. It’s their scope and range of activities that differ.

I would love to see Sam get an award and I think he might.

For what it's worth, I've got that feeling too, and even more if I 'think' about it.

Best show will most likely go to Shetland as it's been very well received in Scotland.

I'm not sure about Shetland. I'm sure though that it was well received. But for some rational reasons I give Outlander a good chance. I hope for triple awards of course (Sam, Outlander, Cait).
I don't know how serious Shetland is as Outlander's competitor. There is something intriguing though about Shetland. I just can't put my finger on it what it is. It has something to do with the pace. Unfortunately, it's not airing anywhere here right now. I've seen the whole of S1. I'd love to watch 2-3 episodes very carefully to find out what's on the edge of my mind about that pace.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

A Scottish BAFTA is just not as prestigious as a BAFTA or GG. I suspect that it may be you that is overestimating it's significance. Scotland's tv industry is very small and produces very little drama, let alone good drama. Outlander and Shetland aside the nominations this year were very disappointing, it's such a shame if that list is the best that we can do.

My friend's son is a film maker and is one of the nominees on the list attached in your OP. He is of course delighted but is first to say that it's just not the same as being nominated for a BAFTA. However, If both awards are the same in your perspective then you are entitled to keep thinking that. I'm not going to try and change your mind.

I'm trying to see things in realistic proportions and perspective. No, I’m not saying that both awards are the same, but there are two elements to each. One element is the common denominator — the same quality standards that apply to both awards. The other element is their different scale, scope and range of activities, and although with some common grounds, given the size of the Scottish film industry, there is a scale difference. It’s exactly that scale difference that determines the prestige of BAFTA, combined with the inherent quality standards.

So, if your friend’s son wins the award it means two things: 1. he meets the quality standards, 2. he meets (parts of) the other policy criteria that this award stands for, i.e. promotion of (new) Scottish talent, film industry and its international potential, etc.
If he has BAFTA and GG ambitions, maybe he could think of relocating his activities. All depends what his ambitions and priorities(!) are.
I know that for some professions it’s easier to make a name through small markets.

Of course Outlander has a good chance, it's one of three nominees. I just have a strong feeling that the best show award will go to Shetland as it has been well received by the public and critics.

I can’t read crystal balls, but we agree about Sam. Outlander has some very strong arguments in favor too. I’ve seen Shetland airing in the past year in The Netherlands, Belgium, and in Germany (all on national TV-stations). Over here even S2 aired. But I have no idea what the ratings were. Shetland’s strong point was that it aired at least in the three countries I know of. This means that it meets the criterion of promoting Scottish TV productions abroad. I remember vaguely that someone on this board (American) wrote that she had seen episodes in the US too. Outlander, of course, is a completely different story, because there were benefits in many areas, such as promoting many Scottish actors, but also several other areas of Scottish culture, music comes to mind. And of course, as we know, not only the benefits in the artistic area.
I don't have an opinion about the other Scottish nominees because I don’t know them. You said it, we’ll just have to wait and see :)

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

The criterion may well be the same but the quality and quantity of shows in the race is not. Being the best show from a category filled with quality dramas is not the same as the best of slim pickings. If you think Sam would rather be nominated for a Scottish BAFTA than a BAFTA you're kidding yourself. A BAFTA would put him on a completely different playing field.

Let’s keep this in context, please. For good understanding you need to cite the whole paragraph:
» I'm trying to see things in realistic proportions and perspective. No, I’m not saying that both awards are the same, but there are two elements to each. One element is the common denominator — the same quality standards that apply to both awards. The other element is their different scale, scope and range of activities, and although with some common grounds, given the size of the Scottish film industry, there is a scale difference. It’s exactly that scale difference that determines the prestige of BAFTA, combined with the inherent quality standards. « (had edited the last part of the last sentence just before your post)

The point we’re discussing is not which award an actor would prefer, but the status of the award itself. I pointed out that the quality standards are identical. Not so their scope and scale.

Good grief, this show really is your sacred cow.

LOL! Not my sacred cow, but maybe a cash cow and boost for several areas of Scotland’s culture and economy? Tourism? Think Outlander-pilgrimages? 😀

It is possible for someone in the profession to appreciate the nod and also remain realistic about the importance of the particular award. How do you know that that he hasn't received or been nominated for more prestigious awards?

I don’t know what kind of awards he has received, but that’s not the point either.

He is of course delighted but is first to say that it's just not the same as being nominated for a BAFTA.

This sounds like a film maker over here who receives our highest award and he says that it’s not the same as an Oscar. Talking of realism, lol.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

Is the cash that Scotland has cowed quantifiable or is this an assumption?

Believe it or not, when I write something, usually I don’t dream it up, but have read about it somewhere. Actually, I read about Outlander’s effect on Scottish tourism in a post here, with the source mentioned as well. I don’t remember in which thread it was, but I did a quick search and found more that supports what I read here. When I estimate or assume something I say so unambiguously.

Outlander is a ‘goldmine for years’ to Scotland’s tourism

SCOTLAND’S tourism agency believes the industry will be able to cash in for years to come from a “goldmine” created by the hit American fantasy TV series series Outlander.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/outlander-is-a-goldmine-for-years-to-scotland-s-tourism-1-4105964

Outlander gives Scotland tourism boost after visitors were inspired by series

THE Scotland Visitor Survey 2015 showed that hit book and TV series Outlander and classic Scottish movie Braveheart were some of the biggest draws for visitors.
http://www.scotlandnow.dailyrecord.co.uk/lifestyle/outlander-gives-scotland-tourism-boost-7537892

Outlander linked to boost in Scottish tourism

Hit TV series Outlander has been credited with providing a boost to Scottish tourism, which has seen its fourth consecutive year of growth.
According to the Association of Scottish Visitor Attractions (ASVA), the TV series, filmed in Scotland, has aided local growth at sites such as Culloden Battlefield and Doune Castle.
Overall, Scottish tourist attractions recorded a 3 per cent rise in visitors, with a total of 6,246,846 tourists visiting sites between January and April - an increase of more than 200,000 the previous year.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14571415.Outlander_linked_to_boost_in_Scottish_tourism/

A Scottish BAFTA is not our highest award, a BAFTA is.

Sigh...

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

I never suggested that you did, I do not doubt your great commitment to this tv show for one minute. I am but a casual fan in comparison. If anything I think that you may at best be a little guilty of buying into some unsubstantiated, online hype.

No, I’m not, but once I engage in a discussion it’s not of the wishy-washy variety. Maybe you remember a few long threads where I defended endlessly Diana against what I perceived as vehemently unfair attacks on her. I’ve never read her books, don’t know her, don’t visit the SM-pages. But unfairness offends my sense of justice. So, my ‘commitment’ is that I don’t avoid a good discussion, be it one about Diana, Outlander, or Santa :)
So, yes, I love the show, but I’m not the characteristic fan, no Droughtlander-symptoms either. But it’s a very good show because I don’t see any lazy filmmaking. All is fresh and new, and no fillers. Great craftsmanship, and wonderful actors. And although I don’t write often about it, the costumes are just sensational too. As is the job Gary Steele does (too much to write about, just don’t know where to begin).
I started watching the show because I knew Sam from other productions, and stayed because of him too. And whenever I go along with the game I know it’s a game, be it the promotional stuff of show or fashion, or cheering for this or that. I don’t cheer more than I can bear ;)
So, rest assured, I’m the last one to 'buy into anything', especially online.

Other than the quote regarding the Outlander locations, this article is full of hype, assumption and speculation. It's mostly based on one woman's predictions for what may happen, a classic example of lazy journalism. That being said, Outlander will most likely turn out to be a goldmine for Doune and the other lesser known locations used by the show. I'm surprised that the increase has only been 40% as most foreign visitors generally tend to stick to the well known attractions like Edinburgh and Stirling Castle and of course Culloden.

Being a goldmine for the Outlander locations is not the same as the show being a cash cow for Scotland. It would be interesting to see a comparison between income generated by Outlander into the Scottish economy's -v- the tax breaks and subsidies provided by the Scottish government.

No, you get clean comparisons if you compare inbound tourism of the main destination-regions in the UK, and look at the relative increase in percent for Scotland (the cheap Pound is automatically factored in). The Scottish regions themselves are of less importance, because many tourists (like me) who have seen Outlander might want to visit Scotland because of the scenery/nature and some landmarks. I think the readers of the books will probably want to see all the places where they filmed Outlander. But essentially they are Outlander-related visits, as would be mine (even if I probably won’t visit Leoch, etc.)
There weren’t any subsidies, because successful companies like Starz are not eligible for government subsidies. Besides, for filmmakers government subsidies are not an attractive instrument because it could impair their artistic freedom. Tax breaks yes, which is a popular instrument to attract foreign investments.

I'm surprised that the increase has only been 40% as most foreign visitors generally tend to stick to the well known attractions like Edinburgh and Stirling Castle and of course Culloden.

Why not delve into the statistics and prove the newspapers wrong?

What bothers me most about your viewpoint is that you – not even indirectly – but openly begrudge the show the credit it deserves in this matter. Sad.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

Scottishkate, I read and reread your post and think that we have reached the point of talking in a circle. Nothing to worry about, it's just a logical result of talking at cross purposes... 😁
BTW, ‘cash cow’ was a wordplay-answer to your claim of the show being my ‘sacred cow’. Although meant playfully, I’m not that unhappy about this felicitous choice of phrasing it :))

I’d like to take this opportunity though to clarify something I wrote in a previous post:
Maybe you remember a few long threads where I defended endlessly Diana against what I perceived as vehemently unfair attacks on her. I’ve never read her books, don’t know her, don’t visit the SM-pages. But unfairness offends my sense of justice.

‘Never read her books, don’t know her, etc.’ means that I don’t have to be in an intensive contact situation to stand up for someone who is treated unfairly, and who is practically defenseless on a platform like this one. As a matter of fact, I do read her show-related interviews, and enjoy her appearances solo or with Outlander folks; I think she’s a very charming, amiable person. I also read her tweets on Sam and the Captain’s Twitter (I don’t visit more than 3-4 (of 10) Tw-accounts a day). Being a viewer-only her public appearances and interviews give me an impression of the person who created this story so many people enjoy, and which is the basis of this great show.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

When I said the show was your sacred cow, it was not intended as a slur, that's just how your opinions can come across to me.

No problem! I didn’t think it was, otherwise I wouldn’t have engaged in the wordplay with my ‘cash cow’ in the first place. When I write about the show, I can substantiate with logical arguments why I love the show, so the shoe wouldn’t fit anyhow and therefore not bother me :)

In your second paragraph you make connections that could start whole new discussions, but don’t relate to what I’ve written. What I noticed, and what this whole discussion is about, is what I wrote in the last sentence of my penultimate post:
What bothers me most about your viewpoint is that you – not even indirectly – but openly begrudge the show the credit it deserves in this matter.

I think you underestimate the viewers of the show. People who read about the show’s benefits for the Scottish economy and culture are not gullible. They know that Scotland existed before Outlander, and that tourism has always been a pillar of Scotland’s economy. They do know that Scottish history didn’t come into existence when Claire touched the stones and landed in 1745/46.

Should I not have said the Scottish BAFTA is not the same as a BAFTA.

This is the part I don't understand. If you read carefully what I wrote repeatedly, you’ll see that we both talk about the difference, but while I’m providing the arguments that substantiate it, you limit yourself by stating that one is more prestigious than the other. And there is the rub. Here is why.

As I wrote earlier, the fields of activity are different, depending on the policy priorities of the several BAFTA-branches. But within their spectra of promotional goals, priorities and activities they are the highest awards in their respective realms.
Example: BAFTA.org won’t be promoting new talent in Scotland. BAFTA Scotland is. So, the British Academy Scotland New Talent Awards are the highest possible awards (in the UK) for new talent in Scotland. Therefore, the award is the most prestigious the country has to offer.
All the BAFTA Scotland awards are related to promotion of, and achievements in Scottish film and TV. This is about as tight as I can explain it. You can see what the respective priorities of the different BAFTA-branches are when you search “entry” on their sites.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

I hope you realize that this discussion isn’t going anywhere if I can’t find any arguments that support your claims.

Never mind wordplays, just look at the sentence as such. I wonder if you saw the “maybe” and question mark at the end. Even if one would say that a question is a statement in disguise “cash cow” and “boost” does not point to the whole of Scotland but to “several areas” of culture and economy. And as said: wordplay — which doesn’t seem to be everyone’s forte.

LOL! Not my sacred cow, but maybe a cash cow and boost for several areas of Scotland’s culture and economy? Tourism? Think Outlander-pilgrimages? 😀

My comments weren't regarding Outlander viewers and fans, they were directed solely at you.

Feel honored. Wordplay or not, it’s for you to decide whether you want to continue clinging to it. You say that it was me you underestimated (not the fans), but let’s look at it from another angle. What if I’m not the only one who read those papers and thinks what they wrote sounds plausible? What if many viewers of the show and businesses who read the papers have similar thoughts as I do and can relate to it? The articles are a given. Instead, I think it’s up to you to prove that what the papers are signaling is wrong and that the show’s spinoff is limited to your assumptions: “(…) Outlander will most likely turn out to be a goldmine for Doune and the other lesser known locations used by the show.”
Go ahead, delve into the statistics and prove the papers wrong.

Please be assured that I understand your position completely, I'm simply saying that you are wrong.

??? Understand my position completely? What exactly is it that you understand? Please explain!

I can understand that for a non Brit it can be difficult to comprehend how we view our national identity.

We’re not discussing national identities. We’re talking about an “independent charity that supports, develops and promotes the art forms of the moving image by identifying and rewarding excellence, inspiring practitioners and benefiting the public,” specifically the policies, area-specific priorities, goals and competences of its regional branches, in the concrete, BAFTA Scotland.

From an objective viewpoint the unfounded way you deprecate the show’s positive impact has all the ingredients to disqualify this whole discussion. I’ve got a sneaking feeling that I might have overestimated you (I slightly tend to do that in the “benefit of the doubt”-phase, which is a little more than just an open mind; the bright side being that I quickly get over it too).

The country of which I am a citizen is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain is the largest of the British Isles and is home to England, Scotland and Wales. I was born in Scotland and, apart from several extended periods abroad, have lived my life in Scotland. That makes me ethnically Scottish and British, our passports say British we are British citizens. Although Great Britain is a geographical term, British describes nationals of the whole of the United Kingdom and Britain is sometimes used to mean the United Kingdom.

While you’re standing on that soapbox you do realize and accept that Scotland, being part of the UK, does have a government and a parliament, which implies a certain degree of autonomy...😁

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] maxine3 8 years ago

Perhaps that tingly feeling that (…) gives you in your ovaries is clouding your judgement.

This was your funnies post I read so far. Losing sight of good sense and decorum by getting that personal is pretty unique in writing between strangers…

Tingly feeling in my ovaries? Does the feeling in my ovaries keep you busy??
Hahaha! How very sweet!

I think that’s the most entertaining way a discussion here ever came to an end. Unintended humor excuses almost anything, even absence of well-founded arguments.
Thanks for the classy entertainment and enjoy your post as I did! 🌻😁

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] laura1-07 8 years ago

I hope for triple awards of course (Sam, Outlander, Cait).

👍

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[–] hannahjamesglasgow 8 years ago

One thing to be nominated. Another to win. If they're smart they'll bote so Outlander will sweep it. The show brings in tons of tourism money that helps fund the arts, which BAFTA Scotland needs.

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[–] ljfav 8 years ago

All Awards are industry self promotion campaigns Emmy/Oscar/Bafta/Tony/GG, their relative 'prestige' comes from their relative strength in the industry. So with-in Scotland and to a Scot like Sam, they have plenty of prestige. Since the role of 'Awards' is self promotion, the Scottish Bafta's would be foolish to ignore the inarguably biggest international promotion vehicle for Scottish TV/film industry there is, Outlander, and with it's tens of million dollar budget certainly one of it's biggest employers. It deserves nominations for that alone, having not seen any other Scottish TV/Films I can't speak objectively to the artistic merit, but as a fan Outlander should win!

Haven't seen the current/season 3 of Shetland, would like too. Was struck in the first 2 seasons how much of the cast was also in Outlander Doug, Stephen, Finn and Bill and just how much Outlander was doing for Scottish actors.

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[–] hannahjamesglasgow 8 years ago

I've seen all of Shetland. It's likely going to win something and Doug is stupendous in it. He'll give Sam a run for his money. But at least everything is Scottish so it's a win-win for the Scottish TV/Film/Acting industries.

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi hannahjamesglasgow - I love Shetland, it's amazing and Doug blows me away. I agree about the win-win for either show.

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[–] hannahjamesglasgow 8 years ago

I adore Doug's acting. His Jimmy Perez is the strong, silent type that comes across as hard, but is really a big softie underneath. Especially when it comes to his daughter. But Doug portrays it all with so much subtlety that it's a joy to watch him.

He's also nice on Twitter. I had a few replies from him which were funny. And I love the political rants he gets on.

Do you know if there will be a season 4 of Shetland?

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

I've liked him since Angels and Insects. He was so audacious in that film.I was a regular Primeval fan and if he wins the Scottish BAFTA, it's well deserved.

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[–] laura1-07 8 years ago

He's also nice on Twitter. I had a few replies from him which were funny. And I love the political rants he gets on.

Do you have a link to his Twitter account? I can't find him.

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[–] hannahjamesglasgow 8 years ago

@laura

He's since quit Twitter, but may come back to do publicity for his new project and S4 Shetland.

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[–] laura1-07 8 years ago

He's since quit Twitter, but may come back to do publicity for his new project and S4 Shetland.

Thanks for that. 

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[–] digitaldiva 8 years ago

Hi hannahhamesglasgow,

There will be a season 4 of Shetland. It was renewed! 

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] hannahjamesglasgow 8 years ago

I've seen all of Shetland. It's likely going to win something and Doug is stupendous in it. He'll give Sam a run for his money. But at least everything is Scottish so it's a win-win for the Scottish TV/Film/Acting industries.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] laura1-07 8 years ago

I love Shetland and Douglas Henshall as well.

So Jamie v MacQuarrie - bring it on. 

Of course Peter Capaldi could win instead. LOL!

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[–] 8 years ago

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