Subtitles are the kiss of death.
Movie going audiences are under the age of 30 with zero knowledge of film before Star Wars. This film, which looks excellent with the one exception its in Mexican.... will flop.
shareMexican is not a language
shareI'm a native spanish speaker. It's in mexican, alright.
That's to say it's a very regional way of speaking spanish, judging by the trailer.
Even if your first language is spanish it might be hard to understand some meanings and jokes.
Cantinflas and his movies really don't translate well because they play a lot with language.
The name of the language is still Spanish, you can call that particular dialect Mexican Spanish if you wish, but calling it Mexican is incorrect.
shareSo... you think I don't know the name of my native language?
Take it easy.
In case it didn't come across, I know what a language is, and a dialect too.
When did the OP or I ever said there's a language called Mexican?
You concede that it can be called Mexican Spanish when referencing the dialect.
And just like people call the United States of America by shorter names,
like: America, United States, and The States; is also not incorrect to call Mexican Spanish simply Mexican.
is also not incorrect to call Mexican Spanish simply Mexican.
Actually it is incorrect, it's like calling American English, simply American
And in case you didn't know, generally when people, especially U.S. Americans refer to any Spanish dialect as Mexican, it is done in a derogatory manner, as in "Mexicans, Spaniards, Cubans, Argentines you're all the same to us", which is most likely the OP's intention. share
When you say it's incorrect, are you referring to an actual grammar rule you could do me the favor of quoting, or is it just you saying it, maybe because of your personal standard?
I think Americans can call American English simply American not in derogatory way, no?
And I do know terms like "Mexican" can be used in a mean way referring to the Mexican Spanish.
I won't presume to know the OP's intention, and reserve the right to call Mexican Spanish just Mexican, or Cuban Spanish just Cuban, or Dominican Spanish just Dominican. Even if you don't think it's correct or don't like it, dear fellow commenter.
I'm my personal view, hate is not in those words, hate is in some people that would use them to express it. I prefer not to project bad intentions where there doesn't have to be any.
When you say it's incorrect, are you referring to an actual grammar rule you could do me the favor of quoting, or is it just you saying it, maybe because of your personal standard?
You don't need a grammar rule, It's very simple look it up in a dictionary, neither American, Brazilian, Mexican, Cuban , etc are defined as languages. They are "a person born, raised, or living in America/Mexico/Cuba/Brazil" or "of or relating to America/Mexico/Cuba/Brazil".
I think Americans can call American English simply American not in derogatory way, no?
Probably, but it would probably be the same ignorant redneck that calls it Mexican instead of Spanish, any educated person knows it's English or American English. Also some Brits I've come across call American English, American in a similar derogatory manner.
and reserve the right to call Mexican Spanish just Mexican, or Cuban Spanish just Cuban, or Dominican Spanish just Dominican. Even if you don't think it's correct or don't like it, dear fellow commenter.
You're free to do as you wish but I recommend you don't get defensive when someone else corrects you
I'm my personal view, hate is not in those words, hate is in some people that would use them to express it. I prefer not to project bad intentions where there doesn't have to be any.
Check the OP's post history, he's a troll, it's what they do share
So, according the dictionary and to your well researched definition, "Mexican" is an adjective "of or relating to" Mexico. And somehow it's incorrect to call "mexican" the mexican way of speaking spanish.
If you say it's grammatically incorrect, then yeah, you do need a grammar rule to say it's incorrect.
Probably, but it would probably be the same ignorant redneck that calls it Mexican instead of Spanish
Oh, the irony.
Look, one thing is not to know that the common language in the USA is English and not American, another is to call the american way of speaking it, as opposed to let's say the british one, American.
You're free to do as you wish but I recommend you don't get defensive when someone else corrects you
You haven't, and that wasn't that. Would be nice, though, wouldn't it?
You needlessly pointed out to the OP that "Mexican is not a language".
Nobody here has argued that it is.
Then your argument was that you can't call Mexican Spanish just Mexican for short because some people in some places use it in a derogatory manner, and somehow it means it's incorrect for everybody else to say that.
Presumably they call Mexican the language, instead of Spanish, which I identified as my first language so it wouldn't make sense to pretend to correct me about its name when I'm obviously talking about dialects.
Then you overlooked that, as an adjective, mexican can refer to anything mexican, like it's dialect.
You keep saying it's incorrect, but can't seem to explain why or according to what.
This is way more fun when people make sense.
If you are not ignorant and know that Spanish is the language spoken in Mexico, and their way of speaking it may be called Mexican Spanish, and you're not trying to spew hate, then calling that dialect Mexican for short, or describing their Spanish with the adjective mexican, it's just fine.
Surely in some places in the world people's mothers tell them "You can't say that", because in those places those who say it usually do it out of ignorance or hate. That doesn't mean that I can't say it. It means you can't, as per your mother's wishes.
Check the OP's post history, he's a troll
You're not supposed to feed those. Or is it the other way around? share
"Mexican" is an adjective "of or relating to" Mexico. And somehow it's incorrect to call "mexican" the mexican way of speaking spanish.
If you say it's grammatically incorrect, then yeah, you do need a grammar rule to say it's incorrect.
First of all, I know English is not your native language so let me tell you that you are definitely wrong. No one here talks like that ("He's speaking Mexican." "He's speaking American.") Not only would you come off as ignorant talking like that in an everyday conversation, but it is definitely grammatically incorrect as well.
As you said, "Mexican" is an adjective, not a noun. When you say, "It's in Mexican," you are trying to use an adjective as a noun. You can't do that. That makes no sense.
So there is the simple rule that would've saved you both a lot of time. LOL share
No one here talks like that
I suppose with "here" you mean the USA and not this board or thread. Correct?
Grammar is a tricky subject. And thank you for showing understanding to English not being my first language.
I think I understand that, if used as an adjective,
"It's in mexican" sounds wrong.
Saying "It's mexican", as an adjective and without the "in", sounds correct. Right?
I take it nobody has a problem how it sounds to say
"It's in Spanish".
Would you agree, as the other gentleperson before you, that one may call the mexican dialect of Spanish by the name "Mexican Spanish"?
If so, would it be correct to say
"It's in Mexican Spanish"?
If so, in the case of that name, is "Mexican" being used as a noun and not as an adjective, like, I would argue, the word "United" in the name "United States of America"?
If so, is there a rule or objection to shortening names in a casual conversation, such as this thread?
Like instead of the "United States of America" saying the "States", or instead of "Mexican Spanish" saying "Mexican".
Not saying that "Mexican" is a language, or that the official name for the mexican way of speaking spanish is "Mexican", but to shorten the name "Mexican Spanish".
What I'm trying to communicate is that,
the way I mean it, the way I'm using it,
"Mexican" is to "Mexican Spanish" as
"States" is to "United States of America".
Just a shorter name.
And I believe calling the USA by the casual name the "States" is not incorrect. Right?
Not only would you come off as ignorant talking like that in an everyday conversation
I do realise that, in ignorance, some people call the native language of Mexicans by the name "Mexican". Since my first post, where I called it "Mexican" I clarified that I was talking about the dialect and not the language.
Context is important.
it is definitely grammatically incorrect as well.
I am not an expert in English, but if it is "grammatically incorrect", wouldn't there be a grammatical rule to quote? share
I think I understand that, if used as an adjective,
"It's in mexican" sounds wrong.
It doesn't just sound wrong, it is wrong. Try using another adjective in its place. You say, "It's hot," not "It's in hot." "It's in hot" is not even a complete sentence.
Saying "It's mexican", as an adjective and without the "in", sounds correct. Right?
Yes, that is correct.
If so, would it be correct to say
"It's in Mexican Spanish"?
Yes.
If so, in the case of that name, is "Mexican" being used as a noun and not as an adjective, like, I would argue, the word "United" in the name "United States of America"?
Yes, you can argue that "Mexican Spanish" is a compound noun, although obviously not a common one like "full moon."
If so, is there a rule or objection to shortening names in a casual conversation, such as this thread?
Like instead of the "United States of America" saying the "States", or instead of "Mexican Spanish" saying "Mexican".
Not saying that "Mexican" is a language, or that the official name for the mexican way of speaking spanish is "Mexican", but to shorten the name "Mexican Spanish".
Yes, the rule is that if you want to shorten a compound noun to one noun you do it by removing the adjectives, not the noun. Without the noun in place the adjective is left as just an adjective.
Like in this sentence: "I like looking at the full moon."
You can get rid of the adjective part of the compound noun and say: "I like looking at the moon." However, you cannot say: "I like looking at the full." The word "full" was part of the compound noun, but when you get rid of the noun the word "full" goes back to being an adjective.
What I'm trying to communicate is that,
the way I mean it, the way I'm using it,
"Mexican" is to "Mexican Spanish" as
"States" is to "United States of America".
Just a shorter name.
As I explained before, you can remove the adjectives in a compound noun, but not the nouns.
That is why you can call it "the States," but you do not call it "the United." You cannot say, "I'm going to the United this summer." LOL
What you are doing is removing the noun from the compound noun, so that leaves just "Mexican" by itself. It goes back to being an adjective if you decide to use it alone. What you are doing is the opposite of what "the States" is to "United States of America." However, you could remove the adjective and say, "It's in Spanish." That will work.
And I believe calling the USA by the casual name the "States" is not incorrect. Right?
The term is "the States," not just "States." Yes, "the States" is actually in the dictionary, although it is fairly informal.
I am not an expert in English, but if it is "grammatically incorrect", wouldn't there be a grammatical rule to quote?
This is why the other poster thought you were being a troll. All you have to do is look at a dictionary. Look up the word "Mexican." That word by itself means none of what you are arguing it to be. You are trying to redefine the word.
Also, do you know what a complete sentence is? The mistake you are making is such an elementary and silly one.
"It's in Mexican" is not a complete sentence, just like "I like looking at the full," isn't one either.
It's "in" Mexican what? Is it "in" Mexican theaters? Is it "in" Mexican cinemas? What is "it" in?
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Thanks.
This is why the other poster thought you were being a troll.
Me? I think he called the OP a troll. This is my first thread in this forum.
Well, here is the thing. I very well might be wrong. And I'd like to be corrected if I am. You've been very nice, but I was hoping to get some kind of official English grammar reference. A link. But I can't require that of you and your time.
Why? Well, you say that
"It's in Mexican" is not a complete sentence, just like "I like looking at the full," isn't one either.
I'm not sure of that.
I know that seems correct to you, but, like I said before, context is important.
Let's say one person asks another
"Do you like to look at the full moon or the new moon?"
And he responds
"I like looking at the full".
I think the first person would surely understand because there's context.
By the way, that wouldn't be redefining the word "full" either. share
By the way, that wouldn't be redefining the word "full" either.
It would be redefining the word if you're trying to say that "full" is a noun on its own, like when you were trying to claim that "Mexican" can stand as a noun on its own.
I'm not sure of that.
I know that seems correct to you, but, like I said before, context is important.
Let's say one person asks another
"Do you like to look at the full moon or the new moon?"
And he responds
"I like looking at the full".
Then I don't think you know what makes a complete sentence. A sentence stands on its own. You should not need context to understand what a sentence is saying. Context is irrelevant.
And that's not a complete sentence. Conversational English is full of incomplete sentences, especially if you're asking someone a question, but it doesn't mean it's correct English. Responses to questions will almost always be fragments, so this is a bad example. The original post was not even responding to anyone.
I just looked it up since you don't know English that well.
http://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/english-grammar/clause-phrase-and-sentence/prepositional-phrases
"In" is a preposition. A prepositional phrase is made up of a preposition and a noun phrase.
If you remove the noun from this phrase then it is not a complete sentence because you have not completed the prepositional phrase.
"It's in Mexican." The "in" has to be followed by a noun phrase, but there is no noun.
The same is true in, "I like looking at the full." There is no noun phrase after "at" (another preposition).
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It would be redefining the word if you're trying to say that "full" is a noun on its own
On it's own?
Without context?
In the example I provided, and I think you agree it's a plausible conversation, did you understand the meaning of the word "full" as used in that "incomplete sentence"?
If so, did it function as noun or what?
In that case it's clear it means the full moon, so how it is not a noun?
like when you were trying to claim that "Mexican" can stand as a noun on its own.
You mean to say Mexican is not a noun?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mexican
Conversational English is full of incomplete sentences, especially if you're asking someone a question, but it doesn't mean it's correct English.
You are defending your position that it's "wrong", as in grammatically, by saying that it would be an "incomplete sentence".
If you mean that an incomplete sentence could sometimes be used correctly in English, why do you seem to think that calling mine an "incomplete sentence" automatically means it wrong?
If it were, you have to say that it's an incomplete sentence and that it is incorrect English because of something else.
If, worse, you think using an incomplete sentence is always grammatically incorrect English, I would ask you, since when?
Now you want to say, irrelevantly and incorrectly, that because my first post was not "responding to anyone", like it was made in a vacuum, using an "incomplete sentence" would be wrong.
I think you are starting to throw incorrects things until something sticks.
How is it not clear that I argue that I use it as a noun?
You keep saying that it functions as an adjective so it's an incomplete sentence, when saying that is a waste of time. Wouldn't it be better to just tell me why it doesn't function as a noun, and stop confusing the issue?
I liked where you were going before, I thought you had something there, when you said that a compound noun cannot be shortened by removing the noun part and keeping the adjective. It would be sincerely nice to see that grammatical rule.
This would have been over a lot faster.
so this is a bad example
I used the exact same sentence you used.
I just gave it context.
Now you don't like your own example.
I just looked it up since you don't know English that well.
Oh. Well, now that's not very nice, is it?
Poor little old me with such limited knowledge of my second language.
"In" is a preposition. A prepositional phrase is made up of a preposition and a noun phrase.
If you remove the noun from this phrase then it is not a complete sentence because you have not completed the prepositional phrase.
Are you clear that a prepositional phrase can be inside a sentence and is not the sentence itself?
Do you mean specifically in the sentence "It's in Mexican"?
Are you saying that "in Mexican" is a prepositional phrase because a prepositional phrase has a noun but Mexican is not a noun so it's not a prepositional phrase?
Circles, man. Circles.
(See what I did there?)
Just joking with you.
I'm arguing that it is being used as a noun, therefore it's a complete sentence, but more importantly, it's grammatically correct.
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/qa/adjectives-used-as-nouns
http://www.myenglishpages.com/site_php_files/grammar-lesson-adjectival -nouns.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjectival_noun_(noun)
Furthermore.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nickname
I also defend that you can use nicknames for things, dialects included.
They may be just one word of its compound noun, and that word can be an adjective, and in that case would function as a noun.
Like calling the TV show It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia by the nickname Sunny,
and using it in a prepositional phrase.
"I know a writer in Sunny".
That doesn't mean that it would redefine what it says in the dictionary for the word Sunny.
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You mean to say Mexican is not a noun?
Of course "Mexican" is a noun. However, if you simply look at a dictionary you will see that "Mexican," as a noun, refers to "a person of Mexican descent." That is not at all what you are trying to say in the sentence, "It's in Mexican."
How is it not clear that I argue that I use it as a noun?
You keep saying that it functions as an adjective so it's an incomplete sentence, when saying that is a waste of time. Wouldn't it be better to just tell me why it doesn't function as a noun, and stop confusing the issue?
It does function as a noun. Again, because you're not especially good at English, the dictionary is your friend. There is only one definition for "Mexican" as a noun. It does not mean what you think it means.
I liked where you were going before, I thought you had something there, when you said that a compound noun cannot be shortened by removing the noun part and keeping the adjective. It would be sincerely nice to see that grammatical rule.
It's called the English dictionary. The mistake you're making is as elementary as confusing a "yes" and a "no." You are confusing an "adjective" for a "noun." If you are wondering what a word means and what part of speech it is, look at a dictionary.
Are you saying that "in Mexican" is a prepositional phrase because a prepositional phrase has a noun but Mexican is not a noun so it's not a prepositional phrase?
Circles, man. Circles.
It's not "circles." Now I've gathered you haven't studied English in school, at least not adequately. Prepositions are one of the earliest things we learn to recognize and use.
You are getting to another reason why this sentence is incorrect. Let me explain.
In the sentence, "It's in Mexican," you have to follow the word "in" with a noun.
https://www.englishclub.com/grammar/prepositions-rule.htm
That is the whole purpose of a preposition, to show the relationship between two things.
I'm arguing that it is being used as a noun, therefore it's a complete sentence, but more importantly, it's grammatically correct.
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/qa/adjectives-used-as-nouns
http://www.myenglishpages.com/site_php_files/grammar-lesson-adjectival -nouns.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjectival_noun_(noun)
Again, if English is not your native language, the dictionary is your best friend. The dictionary will clearly show you that you are incorrect on every count.
The noun "Mexican" means "a person of Mexican descent."
So you are trying to say that, "The movie is in a Mexican person"? LOL
The links you provided further prove my point. You nominalize adjectives by playing with their suffix or adding the article "the" before the word. However, you have not done either in the sentence, "It's in Mexican." Therefore, you have not nominalized the word "Mexican."
Using your links as guidelines, you can nominalize the word "Mexican" by adding a suffix (e.g., "Mexicanization") or by adding the article "the" before it (i.e., "the Mexican"). In both of my examples the word "Mexican" has been nominalized.
In the sentence, "It's in Mexican," you have done nothing to nominalize the word "Mexican."
You cannot incorrectly make up a sentence like, "It's in windy," and just declare that you are now using the word "windy" as a noun and that it's therefore a correct sentence now.
I also defend that you can use nicknames for things, dialects included.
You can use nicknames for anything you want, but the sentence, "It's in Mexican," is trying to redefine a word that already exists in the dictionary.
"I know a writer in Sunny".
That doesn't mean that it would redefine what it says in the dictionary for the word Sunny.
That's because the word "Sunny" is not in the dictionary because it is not a proper adjective, so you are not redefining anything.
However, the word "Mexican" is in the dictionary already as a proper adjective and noun and you are trying to redefine it. share
if you simply look at a dictionary you will see that "Mexican," as a noun, refers to "a person of Mexican descent." That is not at all what you are trying to say in the sentence, "It's in Mexican."
That's not the only thing the dictionary says about "Mexican".
As an adjective, it says:
Of or relating to Mexico or its people, language, or culture.
Note the definition of the adjective doesn't only say people.
you're not especially good at English, the dictionary is your friend.
It is my friend.
From
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Mexican
The Mexican dialect of Spanish
From
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mexican
of or pertaining to Spanish as used in Mexico.
From
www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/Mexican
relating to Mexico or its culture
From
www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Mexican
Of or relating to Mexico or its people, language, or culture.
In the first one there are even examples of writers that used it the way I did.
There is only one definition for "Mexican" as a noun.
This is where you may be confused.
I am not using the noun.
I am using the adjective and its definition, and through Zero-Derivation Nominalization it functions as a noun.
Take an adjective and use it as a noun. It is grammatically valid.
the word "Sunny" is not in the dictionary because it is not a proper adjective
Yes, it is.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sunny share
This is the rule you were looking for. It's from my response to him:
As you said, "Mexican" is an adjective, not a noun. When you say, "It's in Mexican," you are trying to use an adjective as a noun. You can't do that. That makes no sense.
Oh lookie here! We're branching.
According to the dictionary Mexican is also a noun.
Tried and did used it as one.
Yes, I can nominalize adjectives.
Yes, it does.
According to the dictionary Mexican is also a noun.
It is a noun. It means "a person of Mexican descent." So unless you are trying to say that the movie "is in a person of Mexican descent," you are using the word incorrectly.
Tried and did used it as one.
You tried, but failed to use it correctly.
Yes, I can nominalize adjectives.
You can, but apparently you don't know how to.
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Yeah, I'mma go and keep addressing your silly replies in the original sequence of comments where there is a lot more context and schooling, if that's OK with ya, bro.
I'll stay cool, you stay in school.
Stop arguing semantics. OP has a point. There's even a joke in the movie that shows exactly what OP is talking about. When Cantinflas and Valentina are walking along the streets of Mexico city and Cantinflas starts talking to a sweeper. After they say goodbye, Valentina says something like this if I remember correctly "I speak Spanish but I did not get any of that" and Cantinflas replies "It's not Spanish, it's Mexican"
"When I search for him all I see is Snow"
I'm Chilean, and I had a hard time understanding. Actually, some characters even say that they don't understand CANTINFLAS at times.
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