How can you Feel Sorry for Terrorist Scum?
seriously?! these dirt bags want to cut off our heads and blow us up and you feel bad for them having to shower in front you? they shouldn't even get showers! they are evil terrorists!
shareYou mean those human beings who have not had a trial who you ASSUME are terrorists? Yes, I have empathy. You should try it.
shareI agree, I cannot imagine being locked up for crimes that people THINK I have committed. For all they know people could be innocent but stuck in that place.
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Which has occurred quite a few times at Gitmo. One of the most famous examples was of an individual in Afghanistan who had lost his luggage, which contained his identification, so they took him into custody. He was in Gitmo for over two years. He had done nothing but be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was actually a Brit. Lovely.
The whole place needs to be shut down.
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. - George W. Bush
Which has occurred quite a few times at Gitmo. One of the most famous examples was of an individual in Afghanistan who had lost his luggage, which contained his identification, so they took him into custody. He was in Gitmo for over two years. He had done nothing but be in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was actually a Brit. Lovely.
Gee, that's so tragic.
i wonder what would have happened to you if you had been captured by Musliim scum in some middle eastern country while you're on vacation.
I mean you're totally innocent right? Surely they will simply release you after two years of interrogation. Or more probably they will give you a fair trial and your "due process".
Naive idiot....
I would laugh if I thought your ignorant comparison was meant as a joke. Unfortunately, you are being serious.
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. - George W. Bush
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You wouldn't laugh if they were cutting your head off while sending the film footage around the world.
Your reason for an illegal prison is some fairy tale of what might or could or has happened? Parents have played soccer with their babies.Must we imitate that ? (it was in the middle ages on Christian soil.) Over 50 people saw and or heard a victim being raped and stabbed in New York in the early 60's and we as Americans thought that was a crime. Now nightly we watch our police kicking and punching unarmed Black citizens to death,choking them,breaking their spines,treating them the same way as a prisoner of war (Yup-I said it) with the same 5 men attacking 5 points-but the "terrorist" is a 21 year old girl Jay Walking at midnight as she leaves a club. WHAT THE HELL HAS HAPPENED TO AMERICA? Your sarcasm is crap.
shareI have a google news alert on "waterboarding".
GIs came home and waterboarded their own children.
One guy waterboarded his daughter, who was three or four years old, who he barely knew, because he asked her to recite the times table, and she couldn't do it.
Running torture centers coarsened America, and made torture seem so normal some people thought it was normal to waterboard their own children.
Oh yes-let's not forget My Lai. They were mad at the *beep* All *beep* were bad. Except put them in identical clothes,most can't tell Viet Cong from plain old Vietnamese. Slant-eyes. Japs. Chinks. Wogs. No-most wogs don't have slant eyes,just the ones from Assam,East Bengal,Orissa, close to Burma and Nepal.China,and Tibet. Koreans-who can tell them apart-North from South-pretty easy,the Northern ones don't travel. The South? Follow the smell of garlic. Kimchee. Outraged? Probably not enough. I just finished watching Platoon and Camp X Ray back to back. I'm old enough to have protested both. And nothing happened. When Americans come up against anything foreign or unusual,they show their disdain by refusing to pronounce the names correctly.In this,they stand alone among nations of the world. Americans-the "superior race" or the slowest to catch on to strength through humility.
shareGee, that's so tragic.Most of us learned in nursery school, or kindergarten, that "two wrongs don't make a right". Just because muslim extremists ignore the rights of their captives does not mean the USA should ignore the rights of captives who might be innocent.
i wonder what would have happened to you if you had been captured by Musliim scum in some middle eastern country while you're on vacation.
I mean you're totally innocent right? Surely they will simply release you after two years of interrogation. Or more probably they will give you a fair trial and your "due process".I hope you are not trying to claim that the Guantanamo authorities let people go once they proved their innocence.
Naive idiot...
One of the dirty secret of Guantanamo is that, once the SCOTUS had forced the DoD to provide reviews where the captives were supposed to be informed why they were being held, and were supposed to be given an opportunity to challenge the allegations against them, there was a loophole.
I read a bunch of transcripts where the captive clearly established their innocence. That is not just my opinion. When the officers conducting the hearing didn't pose any question about the captive's account of themselves I figured they too were convinced of the captives innocence.
I remember how shocked I was the first time one of these innocent captives was told, (I am paraphrasing here):
Okay, we accept you were an innocent man, detained in error, because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But now you have to convince us that three years of detention here, without charge, and three years of brutal interrogation, hasn't turned you into an enemy. We are authorized to detain anyone who we think hates the USA. Don't forget we know you have been living next to some men who plotted terrorist acts against the USA. You have to convince us you haven't been radicalized here. If you can't convince us you may live and die here.share
They all get released anyhow. Then they join new terrorist cells and behead decent human beings.
shareBefore you fall to pieces over all of the innocents held at Gitmo, try to remember the thousands upon thousands of innocents murdered, maimed, blown up, shot and tortured by terrorists (not just 9/11 victims...victims of terror are all over the world, many of them women and children).
I don't know if there are any Gitmo prisoners who are completely innocent, but I believe the vast majority are guilty of offenses from conspiracy to murder and are exactly where they should be. If the shoe were on the other foot, how many held would take pleasure in beheading innocents and posting the videos on YouTube for their families to see.
Oh what a falling off was there.
I don't know if there are any Gitmo prisoners who are completely innocent...You don't know whether any of the Guantanamo captive are completely innocent because you haven't bothered looking into their cases yourself.
In 2005 the Associated Press published dossiers from the 2004 reviews of 58 individuals. Once I started reading them I felt compelled to finish. Some of them were clearly completely innocent. Fouad al Rabia was one of the 58, he was one of the completely innocent men. He was a senior executive with Kuwait's airline, who loved the USA. He studied in the US, earned his masters in aeronautical engineering. He said he was largely responsible for Kuwait choosing to buy a fleet of American airliners, from Boeing, instead of European jets, from Airbus.
I made a commitment to myself to read any further documents, as they were released. Over the next four years 25,000 pages of documents were released. It took me a couple of years, but I read every single page.
So, you don't have an informed opinion as to whether any of these guys were completely innocent? But I do.
...but I believe the vast majority are guilty of offenses from conspiracy to murder and are exactly where they should be...Bzzzt!
Why do you think there are less than a dozen individuals facing charges in Guantanamo? It is because the evidence to charge the other men doesn't exist. Why doesn't it exist? Because the other men aren't guilty.
Haven't some men been convicted during Guantanamo military commissions? Yes. All but one of them pled guilty, after agreeing to a plea bargain. Most of them pled guilty to "providing material support to terrorism". And a civilian appeals court threw out that charge. There is a long-standing principle in British common law, that US law is based on. You can't be convicted for an acts that weren't crimes, when you committed them. You can't be retroactively made a suspect. "Providing material support to terrorism" wasn't a crime when these guys were captured. It is still not an international war crime, which means that if the USA considers it a crime they lack jurisdiction, and should have turned these men and boys over the Afghan justice system.
Sadly a complete lunatic was given a senior post in the Guantanamo military commission system, around 2007. He usurped the job of the Chief Prosecutor, when he was on leave. And he lead the junior Prosecutors into laying a whole bunch of frivolous and unsupportable charges. They even charged Fouad al Rabia, the Kuwait Airlines guy I mentioned above.
That was scandalous. When his lawyers were finally allowed to challenge his detention during a habeas corpus petition the civilian judge ruled that there wasn't even enough evidence to justify detaining him, let alone charging him.
What did Guantanamo authorities have against Fouad al Rabia. Al Rabia was a philanthropist. His family was wealthy. He was the best educated, best organized, and he had copious frequent flyer points to go and checkup on the projects they sponsored. So, they delegated managing their donations to him. His dossier shows how methodical he was, when he made site visits.
Al Rabia visited Afghanistan, because his family had been asked to sponsor the digging of deeper wells, because, like the USA's Great Basin, groundwater resources were shrinking and the shallower wells had dried up.
On this visit he met Osama bin Laden four times. He explained, during his Tribunals that these weren't private appointments, he was introduced to him at social events, attended by lots of people. His attitude towards Bin Laden? He didn't like him.
Did Bin Laden try to hit him up for a donation? Kind of. He explained that there was a tradition to give your host a present. He had been someone's guest, and had given that individual a portable incense burner that was also a pocket handwarmer. Somehow Bin Laden acquired this hand warmer, who admired it, and dropped a hint -- telling Al Rabia how helpful it would be if some generous person could see their way clear to ship him several thousand hand warmers, and how grateful the brothers would be to have warm hands next winter.
Believe it or not, when the DIA produced a ten paragraph summary, touting how successful the Guantanamo interrogations were, they devoted a whole paragraph to al Rabia. Highly deceitful spin-doctors called him an "al Qaeda financier" who admitted to "meeting Osama bin Laden four times".
There was a memo to interrogatos in Al Rabia's dossier from a Colonel Taylor, 2nd in command of OARDEC. Al Rabia was subjected to multiple lie detector tests. Why multiple? Interrogators couldn't believe he was telling the truth. Rather than accept the overwhelming evidence that he was an innocent man his stupid stupid interrogators decided he had been trained to resist ordinary lie detectors.
The memo concerned subjecting him to something called computerized voice stress analysis. He was told it was a secret technology, even more accurate than ordinary lie detectors. CVSA is a real technology, but little-known as it is less reliable than ordinary lie detectors. Well Taylor tells interrogators they should feel free to subject captives to as many bogus tests as they want, to shake them up. But they shouldn't include any records from those tests, in their files, when the tests say they are innocent, and are telling the truth, as it may cause problems if those records saying the men are innocent ever fall into the hands of their defense attorneys.
Chaos.
Guantanamo is and was a chaotic mess, where incompetent and cowardly staff lacked the intellectual courage to buck their superiors and say "We have been holding obviously innocent me for year after their innocence was clearly established." share