What would be the bare minimal weapon you would feel comfortable would stop a charging brown bear? I ask because i get the feeling that a small calibre personal defence weapon will probably not help you much other than make the bear madder at you.
share357 mag
Haven't hunted bear (hunted birds mostly and deer) but the above poster with .357 is spot on. That's the 'bear' (heh) minimum. That said, you'd have to be an extremely good shot with a bit of luck to drop a bear in one bullet. Generally from bear hunters I've spoken to (and my own knowledge since I carry a .44 MAG for protection when hunting deer - did bow a few times) it takes more than one.
My Dad frequented Alaska quite a bit and did encounter Grizzlies (although far away, opposite sides of river, he fished up there). Mostly hunting there is all .375/.450 with shotguns used as defense. That said, most up there carried a .44 MAG as sidearm/last resort brown bear.
Guns aside though, nothing beats nunchucks. Those will make short work of a bear or moose in no time.
Guns aside though, nothing beats nunchucks. Those will make short work of a bear or moose in no time.
Not a hunter myself, but asked hunters while in Canada and the U.S. how they would tackle a bear. Despite their huge size, shooting a bear seemed not as easy as it seemed to me. Basically their advice came down to:
1. Don`t try a headshot - target too small and heavy head bones might deflect shot.
2. Don`t try a heartshot - target too small and risk that rib may deflect bullet or arrow.
3. Avoid shoulder area (tough bone structure)
4. Best try to shoot when bear gives you a broadside. A shot can penetrate both lungs this way and possibly hurt other vital organs.
In a surprise encounter on close distance, where you will face the bear, a shot might even riskier than bear spray - if you are not absolutely sure you will hit a vital organ. Even if hit, the bear could still charge and maul you. The bullet must hit a vital spot, while the bear spray - if aimed in the general direction of the charging bear - creates a large cloud of pepper spray right in the bears path which he cannot avoid.
Haven't shot a bear as we don't have them in this country, but I do know from 30 plus years of hunting & also studying the species:
A .357 magnum (my favourite calibre) minimum would be smallest weapon I'd even consider in the hand gun range. I used to carry a holstered .357 with 2 or 3 speed & jet loaders when hunting in the bush, for "just in case". Also shot military calibre rifles & competitive pistol shooting for many years.
Killing a bear is not so much the calibre, but where the bear is hit. Knowledge of animal skeletons & musculature is vital when hunting any game that can defend itself against humans. Bears are deceptively small; the majority of what you see is skin and fur, lots of it and very, very thick. All skeleton masses are defensive of vital organs, large bones protect the heart and brain of bears, and as the OP stated a lung shot would have a quick effect.
Even a .357 could bounce from a bear's thick upper skull, but the classic "between the eyes" or in softer sections of the rear of the skull or upward via the soft palate would produce a kill. Something only a very skilled shooter could do, and even then being too close for comfort, probably within 30ft to produce the necessary impact.
Bears have a massive layer of skin that hides a smaller frame, and can carry huge amounts of fat while stocking for leaner (or winter) hibernation. To actually know where the bear's heart is, and hit it while charging & stop it dead, would be an extremely lucky feat by no means.
Shotguns are built to scatter & while the noise may cause a bear to think twice, I doubt if anything less than a solid or 00 would even penetrate that thick fur & hide, basically a pin-prick to such an animal. To kill, it would have to not only penetrate but destroy a vital organ instantly, and buckshot or pellets just ain't going to do the job. Again, you would need to know specifically where a vital organ or artery is to hit it, and stop a charging bear in order to save your life.
Putting a few .357's through the ribs & producing a through-and-through of the lungs would cause instant serious blood loss into the lungs, oxygen supply would lessen and blood loss to the heart would sap the bear of the strength needed to haul it's weight about. It would probably complete a short charge & kill you before it drowned in it's own blood or bled out, so again it's a long shot (sorry) unless you cut an artery or cause one to shred or blow out. Adrenaline charges through the system and gives the animal strength, and it takes vital seconds for blood loss to take effect and have a large animal lose momentum and then ability to move - claws & teeth are razor sharp & I'd lay money a bear would have enough impetus to catch a human and kill it within 45 seconds of a vital organ (heart lungs or vena cava in the liver) to bleed out & even start to effect the bear.
Bears don't have great eyesight but they do have an excellent sense of smell - I'd hazard a guess & say if you're in bear territory & find yourself in danger near a bear,spray in it's eyes would be the first line, and in the event that works and you still need to fight, shove the .357 in it's mouth & go for it.
500 yards of clear ground with a .308 (or 7.62mm) rifle, a high power scope & a getaway vehicle is my preference, otherwise my money's on the bear.
Bears are deceptively small
Was joking and poking a bit of fun.
shareHe's deadly serious, depending on the abilities and experience of the nunchucker
shareThe nunchucks advice was great. You had me choking on my cereal.
shareI haven't hunted bear either. But I have been around firearms in the service and hunting for a long time.
I carry 45 semi auto for casual outings in bear country. Don't go for a head shot but center mass.
Hunting blck bear is VERY different. Lots modern black bear hunting is done from elevated (tree) stands. People hit torso with an eye toward hitting lung, and for that a 44 mag or 357 mag revolver will work.
For defense against a bear you are going to have (maybe) a standing display by the bear in which case if front of center mass is presented you would have a very good shot. Then again you may not wish to shoot to kill at that point but warn shot. Noises do -- sometimes - scare off bears. with a charging bear you are looking at heavily muscled shoulders and an heavy skull as your target.
Like a lot of things with firearms and civilian self defense the issue isn't what can you be certain will stop all threats all of the time. Rather it is what reduces your risk. At pistol ranges if you can get off seven or eight shots as you can with a 45 semi handgun you are likely to put a couple in center mass of the bear. a lung shot at a mammal under physical exertion rapidly blows out blood pressure.
It is all a trade off, I would not "feel conformable" facing a charging bear with any firearm. I would not feel I had excellent odds unless a pal and I both had 12 gauges with rifled slugs.
I would say in order of preference
shotgun with rifled slugs
44 mag
357 desert eagle semi
357 mag revolver or 45 semi auto
the thing is for the 500 times you wont face a bear you want the lighter firearm if you are in the field so the preference reverses.
For a heavy calibre reliable auto handgun you can't beat the .45, again one of my favourite handguns in the automatic category.
9mm Browning looks & feels great, but I found insufficient blow-back for reliable operation in competition conditions. I think in all the years I shot comps the .45 failed me once with a jammed cartridge. It's a good heavy slug with heaps of stopping power.
At the last leg of our service pistol comps we had the "crouch" or "instinctive fire", which is a drawn weapon which cannot be raised above shoulder level, bent knees and crouching slightly, meaning once the range is open the weapon can be raised with either or both hands, but cannot be aimed via a straight arm & with the eye, and with a time limit requiring 12 shots in about 15 seconds.
This is the action most will encounter when surprised, and there is no time to aim. My best was with my beloved .357 Magnum Colt Trooper; 12 shots in the bull from 30 feet(form a circle with thumb & forefinger of both hands & that's the size of the bull) which included an unload & reload with speedloader & using a mix of semi & full wadcutters. Top score 590 out of a 660 total possible.
I had a standard Colt .45, a Smith & Wesson Combat .357 Magnum revolver with 6 inch barrel, and a Colt Trooper .357 Magnum revolver issued to many State Police in the US. I also elected a 6 inch barrel on the Trooper. A .380 Automatic completed the handgun bag, but I shot many many types on the range, including Barettas, 22's, Vostock, many variants of the .45, some .32 autos and a massive Thompson Contender, and of course .44 Magnums and the usual array of .38 revolvers and Glock, Sig Sauer and other autos.
The Colt Trooper was my favourite, precisely accurate and completely reliable under all conditions, easily drawn, handled beautifully, never jammed, never gave a single problem whether firing factory ammo, reloads, round head, semi or full wadcutters, and hot loads. I took it away with me hunting and it was a most enjoyable weapon to shoot with, and I misa it greatly as I've long since sold off my collection.
There is no way I would go for a centre mass shot on a bear.
It's just too hard to get through that skin & fur, let alone hit anything vital. A charging bear is liable to be loping, not standing, and they can move faster than a human. A moving target, dark fur, and a bone structure with a very thick sternum & ribs, and not knowing exactly where to hit, well I think my life would flash before my eyes.
A shotgun is a smooth bore so a rifled slug would need a rifled barrel, and again, it's not the calibre that counts so much, it's penetration and accuracy. Once a projectile cuts through the skin and hits subcutaneous muscle & arteries, it sets up a kind of sonic boom that causes arteries & veins to swell and burst under the pressure of blood pushed back through their systems. Slugs that hit bone can first fracture, and also bounce, arcing in any direction and even bouncing around the insides of the target, doing heavy or light damage. The round may not even exit, and many people and animals have been shot multiple times and with heavy calibre rounds and survived, as they hit no vital organs.
Centre mass shots work well on human beings and are taught in standard police and service pistol comps, because humans are what cops & servicemen will face and a centre mass shot is likely to break a rib, hit a lung, sever an artery or vein or bring down an opponent quickly. Bears are far larger and to put it in simple terms, have more space in the centre cavity and far thicker skin and a heavy layer of fur on top - see if you can find a picture of a skinned carcass and you'll be surprised at the difference between the big live animal, and the smaller structure without the fur.
I still say the only way to drop a charging bear is with a brain or heart shot, closely followed by a heavy shot to a lung or both lungs.
The only way I'm going to chance getting that close is walking on a bear skin rug...
First and foremost, the bear in the movie was a black bear and black bears just don't do that.
A good .41Mag, .44Mag or heavily loaded .45Colt would be adequate for brown bear. Bigger is obviously better and a .475 or .500 would be preferable. In any case, they should be loaded with heavy hardcast bullets and the shoulder is your target. A bullet through the heart won't kill a bear immediately. What you need to do is break down his ability to physically move and attack. Breaking heavy bones is the way.
I have camped several times in Algonquin and generally speaking the best weapon to take on a charging bear is a rocket propelled grenade launcher. It also cooks some of the meat for you
shareNowadays people carry bear spray when they go into big bear country (Northern Rockies, Canada and Alaska).
In the old days, we brought a 357 Magnum, or a 12-gauge shotgun with a big slug, or a high-powered rifle (30 cal minimum).
20mm autocannon.
shareA minimum weapon being a handgun, you are going to want as much penetration a possible to get that round through the fur etc. to penetrate organs. Look for something with a longer barrel giving you more muzzle velocity as well as the round. Something like 10mm, .367mag or +P ammunition. Avoid compact pistols, or pistols with small barrels.
shareIf I only had a handgun, I would feel comfortable with a .500 Magnum S&W. Even with that cartridge, you aren't certain to drop a charging bear with one or even two shots. The fact of the matter is, no handgun cartridge will be as effective as a decent rifle cartridge. I would prefer a .300 Magnum with 220 grain cartridge or a .375 H&H Magnum. Either will make short work of any North American bear with minimal effort.
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