MovieChat Forums > Moebiuseu (2014) Discussion > Kim has completely lost the plot

Kim has completely lost the plot

posted 10 years ago by benettfreeman
23 replies | jump to latest

I rate Bad Guy as one of my 25 favourite movies.

I think Spring, Summer..., 3-iron and Pieta are all great.

Even Time, shocking as it is, is a solid piece of cinema.

But this is just completely ridiculous.

I rate movies according to 5 criteria: Script, Acting, Cinematography, Ambience, Philosophical Value

Cinematography is rarely relevant in Kim's movies, so as with much of his other work, Moebius is N/A

Ditto for script, since there isn't one, only a storyboard, which is insane, completely beyond the pale and the realm of credibility.

Acting is OK, I'd give that a 6 or weak 7

Ambience is N/A. Philosophical value is zero.

So this movie gets a 2 or a 3 overall.

Such a terrible shame. Most of the guy's other work is good, but I think he may well have lost his mind with this one.

How did he even convince the scores of people that make up the cast and crew, to make this madness?

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[–] whirlwindk 10 years ago

Excellent review - You should put this in the User Reviews section.

Thank you, now I am not going to waste 84 minutes of my life watching this movie.

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[–] subratjain1 9 years ago

this is highly misleading. U need to watch this to know what u are in for. The movie, though not kim's best, is pretty amazing. Bizarre as usual but superb.

Moreover it not 84 mins but 89 mins long. make sure to watch the correct version. I dont know what all have they censored in the shorter one.

And dont worry abt the subs as there's not a single dialogue in the film.

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[–] drmidnite12 9 years ago

The 89 minute version, believe it or not, is on Netflix.

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[–] Gus-69 9 years ago

So sheep-ish...

----------------------
http://viverdecinema.blogspot.com.br/

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] bioinspiration 10 years ago

Funny how different people's opinions can be :) amazing even...

I thought this was a small piece of genius.

Cinematography - beautiful, dreamy, melancholic...

Script - "there wasn't one" Really? Like Noe's 'Irreversible' (4 pages so I hear)? If this is true - do you have any links - I'd love to read more? There was a story, a good one, which must have taken extremely careful scripting. No dialogue - but a script doesn't require that. The lack of dialogue was brave I thought. Very interesting and refreshing to see how its not required at all to weave a complex character driven story - amazing! So rich and subtle. I think it was an entirely appropriate and effective device for this story too - what can you say?! It created a VERY frustrating, repressed, desperate, tense atmosphere.

Acting was great - although there is a certain style in Korean acting - perhaps not to everyone's taste. And all without words - the expressions were not over-egged to make up for this either. I kept thinking of Michael Cane's Masterclass on Acting video when watching this.

"Ambience n/a"? You thought so - the mind boggles.

"Philosophical value zero" From my point of view there was plenty to think about during and after this film.

Not saying you are wrong with any of your opinions - I love the fact that people are so different!

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[–] shine-2 10 years ago

Is script seriously your first criterion? Who cares about that in a film? I would agree with the last three, although the last two are a bit vague.

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[–] benettfreeman 10 years ago

The criterion aren't ranked - i.e. Script is not more important than Acting - but a good script can go a long way. Even if the film is low budget and has mediocre acting, set design, etc, if the script is excellent, it will make a good film. It's possible to have a good film without a good script, but only if the acting, ambience, cinematography and/or philosophical value are good.

Saying you don't care about the script of a movie is like saying you don't care about the bacon in a BLT sandwich or what kind of milk is in an ice cream.

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[–] dehumanized 9 years ago

Because the script IS the movie, right? Like Robert Altman's "M*A*S*H*"? Or Paul Thomas Anderson's "The Master"? Surely a director follows it like a bloodhound and doesn't stray so far as a sentence to preserve the integrity. *beep* discovering what the film is as you make it.

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[–] benettfreeman 9 years ago

I'm not sure what your point is.

Are you defending Moebiuseu?

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[–] dehumanized 9 years ago

If you couldn't understand my point then it's no wonder you didn't understand this film.

Try again. Try harder. Read between the lines.

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[–] benettfreeman 9 years ago

Wow, so prickly!

When someone refuses to elaborate on their arguments, it's not unreasonable for others to assume that they're full of it.

If you don't want to explain what you feel there is to 'understand' about sado-masochistic knife sex, it's up to you, but don't try to belittle people to make yourself feel better.

It's usually better to say what you mean rather than ask people to jump through your hoops and 'read between the lines'.

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[–] dehumanized 9 years ago

The point of my original post was that a script does not dictate the final result of the finished film. The examples I provided assist that point. My sarcasm flew over your head, however, just like this film seems to have done. You claim it has no 'philosophical value,' but have you read any interviews with Kim Ki-Duk about it? They seem to point out a lot. I belittled you because you seem like a complete idiot.

How's that for saying what you mean?

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[–] benettfreeman 9 years ago

When I rate the script, I am rating the finished script, or transcript, not the working script that might have been changed. I rate it based on comparison with other films of its type. But the point is that this film has no script, does it. Just stage directions for extreme violence with no real acting cues.

Clearly, when I rate films I do it based on my own opinion, and then (sometimes) I share that opinion with the IMDB community. Usually I do this when I am pleasantly surprised or disappointed, as in the case of Moebiuseu. Kim remains one of my favourite filmmakers for some of his earlier work, but I really detest this 'film'.

I can see you're out to belittle me for having missed your sarcasm and committed the mortal sin of letting it fly over my head, and now you're openly name-calling someone for having a different opinion to you. If you're looking for a point scoring contest, you've come to the wrong place, Angier.

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[–] benettfreeman 9 years ago

Oh and yes, I did read some interviews about this film, and they contributed to my view that Kim has lost the plot.

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[–] danidojo89 9 years ago

Well you sure told him! I completely disagree with you though, and your pseudo-methods of rating a film. A film, a TRUE film, is a work of art which as a whole transcends all these individual finer points you rate by. No, I didn't fully understand Moebius, but it sure as hell will be branded on my mind for the next few days, trying to figure it out. In the end i will probably only take something from it for me personally, different to what others may take from it. Surely a film with that kind of impact, a film that is dividing opinions this much, is doing something right? No it's not a pleasant experience, but life isn't always pleasant either, so why should art be?

Though i do gotta wonder, what is it with Kim Ki-Duk and his Mother/Handjob complex!?

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[–] benettfreeman 9 years ago

'A true film is one that defies definition', he said, defining it.

Your self-detonating argument reminds me of an English soccer commentator called Kevin Keegan, who once said.

"I never make predictions, and I never will."

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[–] danidojo89 9 years ago

lolol never once said that, you make me blush putting words in my mouth you crazy man you.

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[–] benettfreeman 9 years ago

Wrong.

"A film, a TRUE film, is a work of art which as a whole transcends all these individual finer points you rate by"

This is a definition. Moreover, the definition you give it suggest that a 'true film' is one that is not definable by individual finer points such as script, acting, cinematography, etc.

So either you are saying that a 'true film' is one that can only be defined by your own special criteria, in which case you're guilty of solipsism, or you are, as I suggested before, mistaken in thinking that you can say that something escapes definition while defining it.

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[–] danidojo89 9 years ago

I'm saying that art isn't defined by the finer points you rated. It's to each person something different and you're points system might work for you but I could never *beep* over someone's time and effort with such clinical thought and critique. So yeah, stop putting words in my mouth, or you really may as well just have a conversation with yourself. Anyway, the discussion here is not our individual ways of thinking, I get a little sidetracked when i see such self righteous madness running rampant. So basically I was hugely affected by the film and that to me says a lot about the film, and I'll leave it at that :)

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[–] giangcannesoscarmath 8 years ago

What are you talking about? The script is extremely important, especially to "The Master". Without that smart and brilliant script, "The Master" is simply a terrible film.

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[–] zuloworks 9 years ago

"Cinematography is rarely relevant in Kim's movies, so as with much of his other work, Moebius is N/A "

really?


can you elaborate more in this, please.

are you missing crane shots? or steady cames? or what makes you say that?


I find his use if framing superb on any level, it seems to be beautiful & so much to the point

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[–] JudgeNotLestYeBeJudgeReinhold 8 years ago

Crap! I'm always so late to these threads. It's been two years since you posted this, but I'm a bit of a late bloomer with foreign films.

This is the first of Kim's work that I've viewed, but it won't be the last. I'm not exactly articulate when it comes to evaluating or reviewing movies; especially films like this (art film?). But I merely grade by the way I feel during, and after I watch something.

"Moebius" made me hold my breath with anxiety to the point where I had to remind myself to breathe (I love suspense & thrillers).

This is the first film I've seen without any dialogue, and I wasn't aware of that until about ten minutes in (haha).

I probably wouldn't have given it the time of day had I known this, so I consider myself lucky because I enjoyed every awkward, sad, gross, funny (the scene where the kid was running away with the thug's dong was pretty funny) moment.

Since I'm really not great at doing reviews, feel free to ask me any questions if you're still curious as to why I liked this so much, and I'll do my best to elaborate 😉

8/10

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