MovieChat Forums > Far from the Madding Crowd (2015) Discussion > The way Mr. Oaks looked at Bethsheba

The way Mr. Oaks looked at Bethsheba

posted 8 years ago by RomanceNovelist
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Mr. Oaks always looked at Bethsheba with such longing that it really made the movie. I loved that so much can be said in every scene without speaking a word.
While Mr. Boldwood (especially during their duet), seemed to give off a vibe of "crazy eyes".

When Mr. Oaks proposed to Bethsheba, he said "when I pay for the farm, it will be OURS." He never says, the farm will be his, but both of theirs together. Some people interpreted his speech as wanting to tie her down, and make her a housewife, but I saw it as him wanting her as an equal partner that he could build and grow with...maybe one day he could even give her a piano for her entertainment. He proposed to him with a lamb, for goodness sakes.

Anyone who believes Mr. Oaks' speech about his finances was all about securing her hand, it was obvious Bethsheba wanted that information and to know more about his viability as a potential suitor. Her first words to him when they met were, "Is this your land?" or something to that effect. followed by "I'm trespassing." There was nothing wrong with what he had to offer. Bethsheba was perfectly content with farmer's life, as she later chose to become one in every sense when she got her inheritance.

I think on some level she wanted Mr. Oaks to fight for her love. She wanted passion but unfortunately, Mr. Oaks was too humble as Bethsheba was immature, and a bit of a femme fatale. The scene where she asks for his advice on Mr. Boldwood, I believe Bethsheba wanted him to tell her to say no. And when he didn't, it was a let down.

I typically love these stories but when Bethsheba chose Troy over Mr. Oaks and Mr. Boldwood simply because he fondled her and awakened her sexually, it spoke volumes about her immaturity and made me dislike her as a heroine. He actions were way too impetuous and childish. I found Mr. Oaks much more passionate than the other men. Mr. Boldwood fell too much on the obsessive side for him to be suitable. Troy on the other hand was a seducer, who used sex to entice her even though he was very much in love with someone else. All of his traits were inappropriate and gave off a rapey vibe.

In the end, I was hoping Mr. Oaks would find happiness with someone else. HE deserved better than Bethsheba.

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[–] Stovepipe99 8 years ago

Oaks and Bathsheba both have a lot of growing to do, and I don't think that either of them is "better" than the other.

When Oaks proposes to Bathsheba, she quite reasonably says that she is uncomfortable with marriage because it means that she is giving up all of her legal rights.

Maybe this didn't seem like a big deal to you as a viewer, but I totally get where she's coming from. Once married, she loses what few rights she has as a single woman. Marriage would make her vulnerable (in some respects, literally the property of her husband), and she's not quite ready to commit to that yet. Because she is already thinking in this way, the transactional way that he makes the proposal is a turn off for her. And when she explains this reservation, he basically says "Well that's stupid." He has no respect for her point of view--he has land and therefor she is supposed to just say yes to him.

There's an interview with the director where he talks about how Oaks is a good man, but he needs to learn to listen and figure out how to express his love to Bathsheba. I think that it's important to note that both Oaks and Boldwood propose to Bathsheba by saying "I'll buy you a piano!" and she's like "Um, I already have a piano." They aren't offering her anything she needs.

Her decision to marry Troy doesn't make her unlikeable to me--it makes her very real. She even says in the movie that she was stupid and let Troy manipulate her by commenting on other girls and that she got jealous and made a dumb move. Troy's offer of sexual gratification might seem immature, but he is the only one who gives her something she doesn't have. She knows it was stupid.

Oaks only becomes attracted to the "real" Bathsheba after getting to know her better. Instead of just being pretty and spirited (all he knows about her before proposing the first time), he comes to know her as smart and capable and funny. Likewise, she comes to understand his kindness and empathy.

In the end, Oaks realizes that his worth isn't totally bound up in how much money or land he has. Bathsheba comes to trust Oaks enough to trust him as a partner. They both mature in their own ways, and by the end they are communicating honestly and are able to express their love in a way that makes the other person feel good.

[–] RomanceNovelist 8 years ago

Everything we come to know about Oaks shows him to be a reasonable, kind, and honorable man.

"Well that's stupid." He has no respect for her point of view--he has land and therefor she is supposed to just say yes to him.

I disagree with this. She said she would love to have a wedding if she didn't have to have a husband, and he said "well that's stupid" or childish, or whatever. It was only said to that comment. Oaks listened to her rejection, and her reasons why. I thought his approach to her was very gentlemanly.

As for not showing her respect, it was troy who violated her in the woods, made her uncomfortable with unsolicited comments about her beauty, and then a show of violence by cutting her hair frightening her.

Oaks was not only a gentleman but was mature enough not to propose to her, simply because she was pretty. He waited, got to know her, and seemed to like her as a person AFTER spending time with her. Oaks' only problem was not realizing that Bethsheba needed passion-- because she was so spirited. She needed something bigger than a transaction. Something more than respect. She needed a man who would fight for her, and perhaps was not so reserved as Mr. Oaks.

I understand her reservations about marriage--and agree with them. But the very thing she feared came to fruition through Troy. She was immature and in that sense, rejected a good and decent man for a man who violated her in the woods and had another woman pregnant. This to me indicates that Bethsheba was childish and extremely immature. Troy offered her nothing of value, only something sexual and fleeting with nothing to show for himself as a man.

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[–] Stovepipe99 8 years ago

Everything that we come to know about him shows him to be a reasonable, kind, and honorable man. Bathsheba needs some time to get to know him before committing her life to him. Is that so unreasonable of her? Yes, as the audience we know about 30 seconds into the movie that Oaks is the one she'll end up with--but as the actual character Bathsheba needs more than one or two pleasant conversations to hand over all of her property and legal rights to a guy just because he comes bearing a cute pet.

It is disrespectful of him to say that she is stupid when she says that she isn't sure she wants a husband (her joke about the wedding is her way of softening the fact that she's saying no). Instead of taking that moment to hear what she's saying (ie "What can you give me that I don't have?") Oaks chooses to get defensive and insulting. Bathsheba is rare in that she has enough independent means that she doesn't have to marry. The men in this movie basically can't wrap their heads around this. Many women in this same time would need to find a husband and not look down on anyone with money/land. Bathsheba actually has the ability to choose a husband (or even if she wants a husband) and they can't handle it.

If you think that what happened between Troy and Bathsheba in the woods was a violation, well, I can't really help you there. Bathsheba might be a little bit nervous, but mostly she is amped up and definitely turned on. I thought it was clear in the movie (and it is explicit in the book) that Bathsheba is never scared of Troy at all--in fact he makes her feel very safe because he is so in control. Troy takes a big risk, yes, in the way that he touches her. And if she weren't being responsive to his actions then it would be a violation. But Bathsheba is very physically attracted to him (think about it--she's never had sex or even probably experienced that kind of kissing/touch), and Troy correctly reads that. She never pulls away from him or shows any outward signs that she doesn't like what is happening. Troy is super cocky, but he's also an expert seducer. He doesn't have to force himself on Bathsheba--he's great at making her want him.

I understand her reservations about marriage--and agree with them. But the very thing she feared came to fruition through Troy.

Right. But she knows it's a mistake before the ink has even dried on the marriage certificate. Her experience with Troy demonstrates that one single action (saying "I do") can totally turn her world upside down. I don't think that she's "extremely immature", but I think that she underestimates what Troy's real character will be like. Plus, if she had married Oaks, all of his debts would have become her debts. Remember--right after that conversation his whole herd goes off the cliff. Marrying Troy and marrying Oaks (in that moment) would have similar consequences: no property of her own plus her husband's debts.

They all had their moments. Quite frankly I lost a lot of respect for Gabriel when he was like "I'll let that herd of animals die a painful death unless you come grovel personally". That is not the reaction of a kind and empathetic person--he takes an opportunity to put Bathsheba in her place even though it means prolonging the suffering of a group of innocent animals.

People are so critical of Bathsheba on this board--it kind of astounds me. Yes, she isn't perfect, but who wants a perfect, docile little heroine? Who among us hasn't said or done something hurtful? Who among us hasn't been attracted to someone who turned out to be a jerk or a user? She makes mistakes and learns from them. She does amazing things in terms of how she runs her farm and manages her affairs. Hardy has a great line about Bathsheba in the book that I think of when I read people on here trashing Bathsheba--he basically says that people will be nasty about her, but when push comes to shove and it's an emergency, she's the one you want on your side. And I agree-I love Bathsheba. She's incredibly awesome and flawed and human. If her greatest sin is being stupid for good sex, well, she's in plenty good company.

[–] RomanceNovelist 8 years ago

but as the actual character Bathsheba needs more than one or two pleasant conversations to hand over all of her property and legal rights to a guy just because he comes bearing a cute pet.

If you recall, Bethsheba had no property or money when he asked for her hand. She inherited her uncle's estate well after he proposed. Mr. Oaks was the one with the wealth, this is why she asks him later if he was embarrassed by their reversal of fortune. So she was in a position to benefit from his growing wealth, not the other way around. As far as the passage of time, they seemed to be friends, the proposal did not come immediately after their meeting. In fact, he commented that she seemed to find him funny (or that he amused her) so he had reason to think that they liked each other.

It is disrespectful of him to say that she is stupid when she says that she isn't sure she wants a husband (her joke about the wedding is her way of softening the fact that she's saying no). Instead of taking that moment to hear what she's saying (ie "What can you give me that I don't have?") Oaks chooses to get defensive and insulting.

Actually, his comment about "that's stupid" was in reference ONLY to the joke about getting married with no husband. In fact, he listened to her entire speech about not wanting a husband without so much as interrupting her, not even once until that comment. There was nothing in his response to her that offensive in any way, as he was mostly silent, and gave up with her first "No".

If you think that what happened between Troy and Bathsheba in the woods was a violation, well, I can't really help you there. Bathsheba might be a little bit nervous, but mostly she is amped up and definitely turned on. I thought it was clear in the movie (and it is explicit in the book) that Bathsheba is never scared of Troy at all--in fact he makes her feel very safe because he is so in control.

I can't only speak for what is in the movie, and she was terrified of troy. In fact, after he cuts her hair she says, "I thought you said you wouldn't hurt me?" to which he replies, "I didn't", then he violates her, taking her completely off guard. After thinking about it and walking away numbly does she become curious about being touched and kissed by a man.

They all had their moments. Quite frankly I lost a lot of respect for Gabriel when he was like "I'll let that herd of animals die a painful death unless you come grovel personally". That is not the reaction of a kind and empathetic person--he takes an opportunity to put Bathsheba in her place even though it means prolonging the suffering of a group of innocent animals.

So after saving her farm from a fire without being asked, and again, saving her farm later in the movie while her husband partied after telling him to go away, you lost respect for MR. OAKS for standing up to a person who begged him for his opinion then fired him for it? He was always respectful to her, and in turn, demanded that she respect him after her mistreatment and arrogance towars him. He knew she would come. He would have been less of a man had he came crawling back without an apology after her behavior towards him. Seriously, you are way too biased towards bethsheba.

Why is bethsheba a questionable character?

1. Destroying Mr. Bloodworth's life. she toyed with that man's heart for no reason at all, causing him to become unsettled when he was perfectly happy living his life aloof and in solitude. She broke his heart for SPORT and that wasn't kind. This event led to circumstances that destroyed his entire life.

2. Falling for a questionable rogue when she had two perfectly suitable men, after claiming she never wanted to married thus proving she wasn't a woman of her word. SHe is foolhardy and childish. As far as for being there when others are in need, this isn't depicted in the movie at all. Not even once. You can't apply the book to the movie, which is what we are commenting on.

If you look at characters like Elizabeth Bennett in Pride an Prejudice, she was an excellent judge of character, and wise beyond her years, even when she is foolish, which is why she is so admired.

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[–] Stovepipe99 8 years ago

If you recall, Bethsheba had no property or money when he asked for her hand.

Her being poor is still not a reason for her to be compelled to say yes to a proposal. She has a lot of conflicting feelings. She does like and respect Oaks. But she also realizes what she will be giving up by marrying him (or anyone). I think that they are both overall respectful in that conversation, but him even using the word "stupid" (or whatever word he uses) is disrespectful and misses what she's saying: she likes the idea of romance, but is leery of the reality of handing herself over to a man.

she was terrified of Troy

We can agree to disagree on this one. She follows him into the woods (right? OR goes to meet him there? It's been a while since I watched the movie and I read the book between then and now). She agrees to his swordplay demonstration. She falls for his bad boy schtick. I don't see her as being numbed after that encounter--I see her as being overwhelmed by sensation. She's being swept up in lust and danger and it inhibits her common sense.

So after saving her farm from a fire without being asked, and again, saving her farm later in the movie while her husband partied after telling him to go away, you lost respect for MR. OAKS for standing up to a person who begged him for his opinion then fired him for it?

Look, I think Oaks is a pretty great guy. He is the total romantic package: soft-spoken, honest, hunky, kind, smart, brave, and decent. I think they're both really cool people. I don't like one of them more than the other--I think that they're perfect for each other. And because the movie is centered on Bathsheba, hers are the mistakes and growth that the movie/story tracks. But, yes, as someone who loves animals I did find withholding help from suffering animals to prove a point to be a low move. It's literally the only thing he does in the movie that I find unlikable.

Destroying Mr. Bloodworth's life

She sends him a Valentine as a joke--and at that time all she knows about him is that he's considered an eligible bachelor. She realizes her mistake, apologizes to him very honestly, and is very kind (but firm) with him from that point on. If she'd toyed with him throughout the movie, that's one thing. But it's important to note that Boldwood doesn't love Bathsheba--he loves the idea of basically owning her and dressing her up like a little doll. His conversations with her are incredibly transactional in nature, and it's kind of creepy. I mean, he murders someone for getting in the way of his plans. He's completely emotionally oblivious, as seen in the scenes where he's like bromancing out with Oaks about proposing to the woman that Oaks loves.

Falling for a questionable rogue when she had two perfectly suitable men

She gets swept up by emotion, which I find totally understandable. She's seduced and then has to work very hard to deal with the consequences. Because of his pride and their reversed circumstances, Oaks is not going to propose again. And I would hardly consider Boldwood a suitable option for Bathsheba--he completely lacks passion or humor and being married to him would be suffocating.

Bathsheba ensures the financial security of every person who works the farm by pushing it back into highly-profitable function. She faces up to the men at the market. She doesn't speak down to her workers, and shows solidarity with them by jumping in while they are washing the sheep. As the storm approaches, she and Oaks work together to cover the crops. She makes sure that Troy and his love are buried respectfully and together.

Lizzie Bennet is an interesting comparison. Remember that she also made a serious error in judgement when she decided that Wickham was the wronged party and that Darcy was a jerk. She is mostly a good judge of character, but Wickham manages to fool her. Without intervention, it's quite possible she would have gotten engaged to Wickham never being the wiser as to his true character.

Bathsheba wants love and romance, but she also wants independence and sexual satisfaction. Trying to chase all of these things gets really messy for her, but I find her to be a very engaging character and even when I disapprove of her actions, I completely understand her impulses/emotions that lead her astray. I think that as the narrative goes on she becomes more and more mature. She's flawed, but I love her.