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SPOILERS--SO DON'T READ ANY MORE IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM

posted 10 years ago by Flickfan-3
19 replies | jump to latest

I saw this today and could not believe how angry it made me--
I thought Maggie Smith's character was incredibly selfish and totally in denial--
how Kevin Kline's Jim/Matias could do what he did at the end and not just smack her over the head with some vintage bottle was beyond me...
this is one of the more "managed" endings in a film in a long time...

The trailer I saw hinted at a farcical, humerous contest of wills with Klein's character wanting to oust the woman in the apt he inherited

This movie is a cruel about face--
why either of their spouses would stay in a marriage that was so nihlistic is unfathomable--
Klein's mother was in NY state--she could have afforded a decent attorney and gotten a settlement when her husband was so obvilously unfaithful...
to have her do what she did was so destructive and given Klein's story of her depression was surely something her husband could have predicted and prevented...yet he cared nothing about her--why even stay married to her--he spent no time there and had no relationship with his wife or son--he had money--

I know this is "just a story" but to be a convencing story it must adhere to some laws of reality--
I could certainly see a child growing up in that atmosphere turning into someone like Matius--totally lacking self-confidence and a feeling of worth--
Kristin Scott-Thomas's character probably felt the same although in lesser context but anyone growing up in Paris would not have that perfect English accent--she was FRENCH--why not get a French actress--certaiinly plenty of them around...

I still feel so angry that Kline would so such an about face because he though he had a relationship with the daughter of the woman who ruined his life and his mother's--that is just too easy--
I believe in revenge--

"That's the beauty of argument, Joey...if you argue correctly, you are never wrong..."

[–] sunbatt50 10 years ago

Revenge against who?

Nobody ruined Kline's life but himself.

The daughter is as innocent as Kline and he's attracted to her.

He seems to have a forgiving nature and Maggie Smith was a partner to the deception, but his father was the duplicitous one. She didn't even know about some of his actions.

[–] Flickfan-3 10 years ago

She knew that her own husband and daughter were scarred by her affair--
she couldn't even admit to that...

and if you believe that Klein's character has only himself to blame, you don't believe that affairs take two people --
Kristin Scott-Thomas's character understood that she was doing same thing to her lover's family that she had done to hers--and broke it off....Maggie Smith didn't do that---she was still willing to continue it under whatever dilusions she believed--
it was his father who finally got a guilty conscience AFTER his wife killed herself (from what I understoon)...
but he still bought the apartment for Maggie Smith and arranged to support her via the monthly "rent" payments...and sounded like gave her the bulk of his money vs Klein---

I don't care that he got together with KST's character--she was about as damaged as he was--but can't see any reason to forgive Maggie Smith's...
she never even said she was sorry...

"That's the beauty of argument, Joey...if you argue correctly, you are never wrong..."

[–] film_ophile 9 years ago

yes, i completely agree with you, and I posted the thread "In the End."

The way to have what we want
Is to share what we have.

[–] thomas998 8 years ago

Actually Kline's dad and the old woman were both to blame. You think seeing your mother blow her brains out isn't going to screw up their kid? It is and an affair isn't something that is only done by one person the dad and the old woman were both in the affair together.... They both shared in pushing Kline's mother to suicide.

[–] HarryHart 9 years ago

Scott Thomas's mother in the movie is English, so why shouldn't the character speak English fluently. Anyway, Scott Thomas herself has lived in France for over 30 years - longer than quite a lot of French actresses - and can speak French fluently. Perhaps she should have put on some cheesy French accent? Zut alors.

[–] Devans00 9 years ago

I think I missed a detail. Was it true that Jim's father left the bulk of his estate to Mathilde instead of his son? I thought the father left his money to a charity but that could have been cover for Madame Girard.

I know at the end she told Jim he doesn't have to worry about money. I'm thinking the inheritance from Jim's dad is why.

No two persons ever watch the same movie.

[–] Jcinil08 9 years ago

They didn't have to worry about money because they too could sell the house and get paid to live in it until they died as she had done. She actually explained that in the very next sentence that you somehow missed

[–] Reno-Rangan 9 years ago

I saw this today and could not believe how angry it made me--
I thought Maggie Smith's character was incredibly selfish and totally in denial--

I don't agree. Mathilde Girard did not knew the truths like Mathias mother's a self-kill kind of stuffs until she learn later from him. So whatever she says is looks selfish and denial like you said.

how Kevin Kline's Jim/Matias could do what he did at the end and not just smack her over the head with some vintage bottle was beyond me...

They realised they both affected equally of what their father, mother, did to their respective family. And it was not their fault. The movie was trying to be realistic, not thriller or crime.

this is one of the more "managed" endings in a film in a long time...

Managed? yes, but not intensely. Imo in the last scene when they hug and kiss it was so cute despite they're old coz one love story (their mother's, father's) failed legally and faithfully, but the new one bloomed from the shattered pieces of failures and mistakes.

The trailer I saw hinted at a farcical, humerous contest of wills with Klein's character wanting to oust the woman in the apt he inherited

Well that's what trailers do.

This movie is a cruel about face--
why either of their spouses would stay in a marriage that was so nihlistic is unfathomable--
Klein's mother was in NY state--she could have afforded a decent attorney and gotten a settlement when her husband was so obvilously unfaithful...

Guessing from Mathilde's age 92 the love affair took place in the late 30s. In those times being a pregnant or single mother is not that easy like today's world. So from both the family their partners tried to forgive and patch the past until Mathias mother decided she had enough. But nothing in the movie exactly say all this, though understandable.

to have her do what she did was so destructive and given Klein's story of her depression was surely something her husband could have predicted and prevented...yet he cared nothing about her--why even stay married to her--he spent no time there and had no relationship with his wife or son--he had money--

That's what crazy love does, makes people around disappear, until, unless a serious lesson will be taught.

I know this is "just a story" but to be a convencing story it must adhere to some laws of reality--
I could certainly see a child growing up in that atmosphere turning into someone like Matius--totally lacking self-confidence and a feeling of worth--

It definitely affected seriously him that led to divorce 3 times and not believe in love.

Kristin Scott-Thomas's character probably felt the same although in lesser context but anyone growing up in Paris would not have that perfect English accent--she was FRENCH--why not get a French actress--certaiinly plenty of them around...

The reason might be it is a UK movie, a English movie, but still not convincing, right.

I still feel so angry that Kline would so such an about face because he though he had a relationship with the daughter of the woman who ruined his life and his mother's--that is just too easy--
I believe in revenge--

Well, you know sometime people forgive. They found a perfect match in themselves all the way.

You better know what you want to do before somebody knows it for you -The Astronaut Farmer

[–] ProfessorPatPending 9 years ago

but anyone growing up in Paris would not have that perfect English accent

That's not true at all. I know a lot of people born and raised in non english language countries and all have the same accent as their parents when speaking English however when speaking the non english language they speak without a hint of an accent.

[–] louiseculmer 9 years ago

I agree. the whole film was quite annoying. I hated it that so many people had their lives blighted by the selfishness of smith and kline's father - but why did they never fight back? Smith's husband should have slung her out instead of putting up with her adultery. Likewise Kline's mother. And I totally agree Kline should have bashed her over the head with a bottle - a brilliant idea.

[–] merrykate-1 9 years ago

The affair was going on in the 50s and 60s, and women of that generation and class were still inclined to preserve a marriage at any cost. There was a strong stigma against divorce, and it seems Jim's mother felt it was better to remain married, rich and lonely than be divorced and lose her status and wealth. She's certainly not the first woman to take that path. In her case, the lie took its toll in the form of depression and suicide.

Smith's husband, being french, would not have considered her affair to be a marriage-ending relationship. The french frown on divorce to this day, but tolerate extramarital affairs as long as it's done with discretion. It's a very different way of looking at marriage.

What I found interesting about the film is that it doesn't depict an old person as a caricature, as so many modern films do. She wasn't just quirky or eccentric - she'd made terrible mistakes in her life and at 92 she had to face the fallout from them. It is a good lesson, that even after 50 or 60 years the pain she'd inflicted on her daughter still had to be acknowledged and dealt with for her daughter to move on. I thought the ending was a little too Hollywood - boy and girl stroll off together, hand in hand - and considering Jim's past record of failed marriages I doubt the relationship would be simple or long-lasting.

[–] louiseculmer 9 years ago

plenty of people did get divorced in the 50s and 60s - especially in america, where kline comes from. the permissive Society would have been in full swing when kline was a child. and if smith's husband had had any gumption he coukd have put a stop to his wife's adultery, without divorcing her if he really disliked that idea.
I think myself Kline should have married someone younger and more fertile and had some kids, but maybe he didn't want any.

[–] chai_hawkeye-1 9 years ago

and considering Jim's past record of failed marriages I doubt the relationship would be simple or long-lasting

His marriages failed because of his issues with his father. After speaking with Mathilde, I think Mathias finally begins to resolve his issues. Him speaking to his father at his father's grave seemed like a sort of forgiveness of him and he can finally begin to heal. Considering that Chloe is just as damaged as him, I think they would have had a common foundation to build a lasting relationship that would help each other. It wouldn't be simple but I think this relationship would be the one that would stick for Mathias.

It's nice to be nice to the nice.

[–] Jcinil08 9 years ago

It must be strange living in your perfect world!

[–] ruth44 9 years ago

I went expecting a comedy but it's really a sad film, portraying two very damaged people (Mathias and the daughter) and an extremely self-centered old lady. Some of the story development felt contrived (the couple "falling in love" when there was so much animosity for most of the film) but the acting was so good, especially by Maggie Smith and Kristin Scott-Thomas, that I just revelled in that. Maggie Smith can capture an audience by reading the telephone book! Kevin Kline was also very convincing.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (41638798) 9 years ago

The thing is...nobody left behind after the deaths of Cloe's dad, Mathias's mother and his father are left whole.

Even Madame Girard had to face a complete SHOCK from Mathias to learn that this icon of a man, the true love of her life, had lied to her and he was basically just the *beep* his son had told her he was. She had been living for years with the fantasy about him.

She collapsed when told Mrs. Gold had killed herself, so that was very traumatic for her to learn.

Mr. Gold never even told her--some soul mate. He lied by omission to Madame Girard, too. Then, the minute his wife killed herself, he dumped Madame Girard for whatever reason...it would be kind to suggest he couldn't face his guilt.

But more likely, he dumped Madame Girard and never came back to Paris, because as a newly single man, she might have wanted more from him (if her husband was dead by then), and he only wanted something on the side. Not the pressure of being a single man now and perhaps being expected to finally be with Madame Girard.

As a savvy old lady seeing a lot of truths, this certainly must have occurred to her---in the end she was only ever going to be something on the side. He did not fly to her side once he was single again did he? He dumped her by never coming back to Paris. He let her stay in the flat and sent the contractual payments, and that was all.

So, Mr. Gold was the self-centered, selfish person Mathias always saw him as.

The appearance of Mathias to tell Madame Girard certain hard truths was a traumatic event for her.

She also had been used in her own way, too, by this awful man.

They all were damaged by him in turn.

So, in some ways, the remaining three left in the apartment had something in common--in one way or another they each had been damaged by Mr. Gold's duplicity and selfish actions.

[–] louiseculmer 9 years ago

Madame girard was just as selfish as mr Gold I think. She must have known she was making her husband and daughter unhappy,b ut she didn't care.

[–] 8 years ago

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