Say what you want, but this is even WORSE than Serenity, another TV show that in spite of tanking in the Nielsens, still managed to have a big-screen movie made, which also flopped with audiences. Fans keep saying that this Kickstarter thing was a success, but how can it be called that when the film itself flopped and won't even gross its budget back?
shareTotal Flop even for a small production. What's more shocking...this show have fanboys? Really?
shareA show was canceled six years ago. Fans proved that it if a film were to be made it would have AN AUDIENCE . That is what was successful. There are several shows that were canceled in their prime that haven't gotten closure, Veronica Mars can no longer say the same.
Box office percentages be damned, we got the movie we've always wanted and that is all that matters. We now have a book series, so by fandom standards I'd say it was a success.
One thing that I think a lot of the negative people forget is that the original Kickstarter goal was $2 million. They raised a lot more, so they made a more expensive movie than they originally planned. More cameos, more locations, etc.
Now, I don't think anyone paid to see this for Jamie Lee Curtis, James Franco, etc. So many of those added frills can be dropped for a follow-up and most likely retain a similar audience level. The movie's already made $3 million just at the theaters. It was high on every digital chart around. With those included it could reach $4-5 million before even hitting the DVD/Blu-ray market.
So, they've shown the potential audience that is out there. Theoretically, Warner Bros could fund a $2 million follow-up and make a profit.
What people love to conveniently leave out of the whole "it's not even on DVD yet; it will eventually turn a profit there" argument is that producing, distributing and marketing those mediums also costs money. You don't think that it is all free, do you? Studios don't spend money on marketing, production and distribution just to make a profit "when it's on DVD eventually" or to "turn a profit down the road." The film will end up losing money, and no argument in the world is going to change that. This, just like Serenity, tanked on TV for a reason: audiences don't care, and its fandom is minuscule.
shareIt was released simultaneously on streaming video, so unless you brainiacs have a magic way of producing the streaming video revenue for us you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Sorry.
shareThere was never expectation for this to be a theater success. It was put on iTunes and VOD the same day that it hit LIMITED theaters. If anything this movie is expanding awareness of the universe and series even more and making more potential for a successful sequel.
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What people love to conveniently leave out of the whole "it's not even on DVD yet; it will eventually turn a profit there" argument is that producing, distributing and marketing those mediums also costs money.
"Doesn't change the fact that a movie can become profitable in those markets."<----------------It can. Doesn't mean that it will. VM won't.
"why are they still making Firefly merchandise ten years later? Someone's buying it.<--------------------------Yep. The same Firefly fans that paid for a ticket twenty different times, and paid for twenty copies of the film on DVD, AND STILL couln't make the movie a hit on either format. The property simply has no appeal beyond its niche core of fans. And VM is the same.
AND STILL couln't make the movie a hit on either format.
A hit? Are you serious? Let me guess...it spent some time on the Sci-Fi Films top ten on Amazon? Right...niche within a niche, even if it sold 250 copies at any given point, it could've been top five or even # 1. Dude, I remember when Serenity came out on DVD and how it landed with a thud. It wasn't a DVD smash, like most of its fans predicted ("It flopped in theatres, but just watch, audiences will devour it on home video!"); being a top ten seller on Amazon's Sci Fi Films charts doesn't equal being a hit. Had it been a huge HV smash ala Austin Powers 1, it would've garnered a sequel.
shareIt was number one on Amazon - of all DVDs, not just Sci-Fi - and it was in the Billboard top 10 for a few weeks. It cleared nine million dollars in its first month of release, and subsequent special editions and high-definition releases have also sold well.
shareLMAO!!!! Are you serious? That is not true. I distinctly remember the Amazon thing. It was Science Fiction. And dude...nine million dollars in a month of release for a DVD with an average price of fifteen dollars a piece is absolutely measly. X-Men First Class sold 10 million dollars worth of DVD ON ITS FIRST WEEK.
Browncoats think that by saying that the film was a hit they can fool people into believing it was, but just like the TV show, Serenity was a flop on DVD. That's why you guys still don't have your sequel, and it will never happen.
Well if you feel its fair comparing the box office takings of a MASSIVE Marvel movie event with a limited release tvshow movie, more power to you.
Going by the stats you stated, it is hardly a 'flop'.
Even if Serenity's numbers were to qualify it as a *complete* flop - which you seem to genuinely feel so - I don't understand why you sound so triumphant about it.
«Serenity» isn't a massive flop. That would be a film that cost 100 million dollars and only grosses 12. But a film like Serenity, which couldn't even make its entire budget back (before marketing, distribution, and home video costs are factored in) is indeed a flop and a money-losing endeavor that clearly has ensured that the studio makes no attempt at a sequel ever.
shareWell that's not necessarily true. I've tried watching Firefly and I couldn't get into it. While Serenity on the other hand I loved. Sometimes long shots can pay off. And smaller budget movies are less of a financial risk.
shareYou are right about the DVD, that will only increase the profits (as will TV distribution), but don't forget Video On Demand.
This film is a huge money maker for the studio. It was a can't fail project, and it didn't. Sadly the trolls are using the old paradigm to measure this and that clearly doesn't work. This is a win for Warners.
And I'm not even a fan of the series or the film.
I'll be honest. I had never even heard of Firefly until I saw Serenity. I loved Serenity so I went back and watched the show. I didn't really like the show that much, but still loved the movie.
shareMost people posting on this thread seem to be forgetting that the word 'flop' is inaccurate, because the film paid for itself without a studio or independent financier having to plough the money for the budget in. The budget came upfront, from the audience. It is my understanding that the studio agreed to cover the back end costs (release, publicity etc.) if the film could fund itself. Which it did.
Also...any fan who donated above a certain amount of money received a free digital copy of the film and/or a dvd later on down the line. So the box office and digital download figures do not reflect the actual viewing figures for this particular film.
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You just made my day! One of my fave movies of all time, Chinatown, combined with one of my fave TV series of all time. Sounds too good to be true; here's to hoping it's not.
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I doubt the OP will even be back to comment on any of this - ppl who post things like this are just pot stirrers. But what the hell, I'll bite.
This film cost the WB studio _maybe_ $3M. The film itself was paid in full by the fans. So WB is only needing to recoop the $3M it spent on swag, premieres, AMC theatres, and promo...that said:
The VM movie made $2M in 48 hours just from the 291 AMC theatres. It's been out 7 days after that first 48 hours bringing in approx. another $1M. So boom. Right there, WB studio is flush. The rest is profit.
The rest? You ask?
Why yes. Season 1, 2, & 3 were in itunes top 10 selling seasons the past 10 days. Money that goes to WB.
Merchandise for this Team and that Team has been through the roof, of which WB sees a percentage.
The VM movie itself was in the Top 3 selling on iTunes for the first 5 days and is not in the Top selling. on itunes. Not even including 1) rentals 2) amazon 3)flixster 4) vudu 5) blockbuster on demand 6) comcast on demand.
So don'tcha worry your pretty littles heads about the VM franchise. It's been far from a flop.
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Good grief dude. Also if it were a normal production it wouldn't have 20% going to Kickstarter directly and a ton more to posters and shipping and so on. So those are not part of the budget of the film itself in a normal sense.
Serenity came out closer to the end of Firefly. It was in far more theaters and not VOD same day as theatrical. And it's sci-fi.
Granted it would have been nice to see VMars have done maybe twice as well in theaters (although it did better than they predicted).
"Good grief, dude, that's just way too much fact and documentation!" Yeah, sorry, but the bubble needed to be burst. VM people in here arrogantly claiming "So don'tcha worry your pretty littles heads about the VM franchise. It's been far from a flop" needed a big dose of reality and I gave it to them.
Also if it were a normal production it wouldn't have 20% going to Kickstarter directly and a ton more to posters and shipping and so on. So those are not part of the budget of the film itself in a normal sense.
Granted it would have been nice to see VMars have done maybe twice as well in theaters (although it did better than they predicted).
Thomas and Bell also want to make more Mars, be it as low-budget movies or a Netflix series. The team won't rule out another Kickstarter campaign, but they'd prefer that Warner Bros. foot the bill moving forward. "I know what number we'd have to hit to do it again," says Bell, who naturally declined to divulge said number, "I think we can do it. So I am not too pessimistic about this being the last round".
So why would Warner Brothers pay another 7 million to make the next Veronica Mars movie when the last one only made 3.7 million?
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I don't get where the $12 million figure is coming from.
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which reportedly would require the film generate at least $12 million in break-even revenue.
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And my point was that another film doesn't have to cost as much as this one did. Their original goal was $2 million. So they just embellished that $2 million film with more returning cast, celeb cameos, etc. A sequel doesn't need Jamie Lee Curtis or James Franco or many of the old Neptune students.
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Fans of genre directors and other fringe properties claim not to care about box office and commercial success, and yet fight tooth and nail to convince people that their favorite niche properties that flopped did not flop. It's quite simple: a film that can't even make HALF of its budget back is a flop. And in addition to that, we are not talking about a film that cost 250 million dollars and only grossed 100 million. That film is a financial flop, and a money-loser, but at least sold 100 million dollars worth of tickets, which means that a substantial amount of people saw the film. VM, on the other hand, barely made a little above 50% of its budget ON A TINY BUDGET. It grossed 3.4 million dollars, which is pathetic, and proves that the property has zero appeal beyond the already minuscule fanbase that couldn't save the TV show form the ax. So, sure, keep dreaming and xoming up with far-fetched scenarios to justify the «non-flopping» of the film, but the cold hard figures are there, and they are simple and clear: 6 million budget, 3.4 million gross = flop.
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What in the world does that mean? It doesn't matter if it's a "normal production" the point is, that was the money that was raised, that people gave. So they either have to earmark the original Kickstarter money for the gifts and shipping and so on, or they have to get that money from the PROFITS of the film. The point is this: for a film to be considered "successful" it must make more money than was spent to make it. That includes ALL costs, including promotions and gifts and shipping and so on.
Firstly, as far as the future of the Veronica Mars franchise continuing, it's a little bit more important than "it would have been nice". The movie being successful was absolutely critical for the franchise to continue. The movie tanked, it's that simple. So, the books may happen, but beyond that, Veronica Mars is dead.
Secondly, where in the world do you get that "it did better than predicted"? By whom? Naysayers? Maybe, but not the production team, not Warner Brothers!
Haha! Do you actually think that the people that made Veronica Mars (including Warner Brothers) went into this predicting it would make less than 3.7 million dollars at the box office?! What producers would consider spending 7 million dollars on a movie that ultimately earned 3.7 million a success?
Da-yum. You've spent a lot of time and effort on this issue in this thread. Ockham's Razor tells me that you have some deep emotional investment here, and basic common sense tells me that emotional investment is clouding your perceptions. Seriously, it's not in the least bit subtle. Perhaps you'd like to explain what your personal issues are here? If not, no big deal -- the specifics don't really matter, just the giant metaphorical neon "I Care Way Too Much" sign flashing over every comment you make.
Oh well. I sincerely hope you come to terms with whatever issue is gnawing at your psyche and/or self-esteem.
Why do you care?
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Another reason it's far from a flop: The digital download of the movie is STILL in the Top 10 on itunes. Almost 2 weeks after it premiered on itunes. Not to mention on aaaallll the other digital down load sites. It's still making money hand over fist.
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You are forgetting the movie made 5 million even before it began production... it's working on a whole different 'profit margin' than you're typical studio funded movie would be... I don't know what other money WB or the cast put out, but, I'm sure they are, at the very least, breaking even. It was never going to be a billion dollar box office smash, but by definition, breaking even is not a flop.
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I 4/4 don't care.
Also, what is left out is that almost 66k of the 91K backers got a digital copy the day of release. So if they bought 2 tickets a piece (I know there are singles, but just for the sake of argument) at 10 bucks a ticket that would be another $1,320,000 in ticket sales, but they don't need tickets, they funded the movie. If the movie at the end with tickets, VOD, DVDs, Netflix deals and everything doesn't make one dollar of profit, it is a success. Because in the end, the fans gave Thomas the money to finish a story. He finished that story (and left it open for more) and that is what the fans wanted, it is what they paid for. Screw the studios, they didn't fund it, so who cares if they get rich off of it.
shareTomas you are an idiot, it in fact did make back it's budget since the viewers pre-paid for the movie. It has made 3 million already (on just 250 screens) and will probably make well over 5 million (of almost pure profit. There have been many franchises that have made many movies with that type of return in the past.
shareThe thing that irks me is, why these trolls even want this to be a mainstream success?
This movie was made because the "fringe" fans wanted it. I would want to see a Jericho movie perhaps, so what if most of the world does not care? And it can't really be a flop because a lot was already paid by kickstarter. They got about 6 million from kickstarter already.
I think everyone involved in making this moving realized it wasn't going to be Iron Man. They felt they'd likely make a decent amount of money off a minimal investment with a movie they shot in 23 days. Nobody was sweating this one. I truly believe that to Rob Thomas and Kristen Bell, it was more a labor of love and a huge "thank you" to all the die hard fans. Call me naïve, but I think there might be a couple of people left in Hollywood that will put together a nice project without the expectation of getting rich out of it. The Kickstarter cash simply made it all that more appealing. I'm a VM fan. I'm thankful they put out the movie. I really enjoyed it. I hope they make a bit of money off of it. And the fact that it doesn't make it into the mainstream really doesn't matter to me. I think the true fans of the show never really cared who else "got it". Although if more people "got it", maybe we would have seen 6 or 7 seasons. Maybe we'll see them back for their 15 year reunion!
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It amazes me the amount of energy people spend of their lives invested in trying to convince us 'fanboys' that this was a flop. Dude.. even if it WAS (which it wasn't), most of us were happy to get the movie in the first place. WE'VE ALREADY WON. STOP TRYING.
You're Welcome.