MovieChat Forums > Beauty and the Beast (2017) Discussion > Black people in 18th century France? Ser...

Black people in 18th century France? Seriously?


Uhhhhh...they're taking the SJW thing a bit too seriously now.

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Racist killjoy detected.

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This is historical accuracy here, not a race issue. Seriously, you're making yourself look silly.

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You cannot judge things by appearances. This is what the film is teaching, and you're ignoring it by judging the characters in the film by their actors being black. Also this is a fantasy fairy tale, not everything has to be real.

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No. No. Not a valid excuse.

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So you prefer to judge things by its cover?

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Love the internet, dumb people have the chance to pretend they're smart. Lovely!

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[deleted]

thebricks has a long history of throwing tantrums because black people are in movies.

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Well to be fair, nobody's judging any character here. You seem to hear what you want to hear.

The guy's talking about historical accuracy. I suck at history so I don't know whether it is possible for a lot of black characters to be there in that time. If it is not, or very unlikely, I say he has a point.

I mean, people are (rightfully) complaining about old movies that only cast White actors to Play People from all kinds of races and cultures. Going the other route and casting mixed ethnicities for every role, disregarding historical or geographical context, is not really better.

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FYI France is not far from Africa, and by the 17th and 18th century there was a lot of sea travel between Europe and Africa. And while France didn't import slaves directly from Africa there were French island colonies in the Carribbean that had slaves, owned by citizens of France, and it's possible that some one brought their slaves home to France. So yes, it was entirely possible at that time period for black people to travel from Africa or the Carribbean to France, and to settle there.

So everybody quitcherbitchin.

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Wasn't bitching, as I said, I was not sure about the historical accuracy. When it makes sense, it's all good with me.

I just didn't get the other guy's replies talking about judging a book by its cover. That's not what OP was getting at. But wth, no need defending him as you've just explained that he's wrong. I'm out. ^^

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You're right, though, it's not historically accurate to have black people live among peasants like equals on the French countryside in the 18th century.

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Historical accuracy in a movie about magic and beasts and people turned into objects? Seriously? You might want to refrain from calling someone else silly.

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The suspension of disbelief in magic is not the same as the suspension of disbelief that black people are native to Europe and have never been oppressed.

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Uhhhhh....it also has magic and talking clocks and lamps and teapots. If you're looking for accuracy, look elsewhere.

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Well.....you can look at this from several angles.

Historically, there were a few black people in 18th century France, due to colonialism and increased contact with other countries, but they were extremely rare. You would have had to have known the person's name, and sought them out. That's how rare they were.

From a fairy-tale perspective, they can sort of get away with it, because there's nothing in the rules that says that people in fairy tales have to be exclusively white. However, I do think they went overboard by having not one, but TWO inter-racial couples in the film. One is enough. I was fine with Lumiere having a beautiful black Plumette as his lady love. The opera singer and the pianist? Too much. (Though I will admit I loved the opera singer's ballgowns).

It's just kind of shocking when you see a black person in these stories pop up where they weren't originally shown before. Now Disney did do a color-blind casting of "Roger's and Hammerstein's Cinderella" with Brandy and Whitney Houston starring, so then seeing black people in that wasn't as jarring. And we saw various black people sprinkled into the 2015 "Cinderella" film.

However, I don't think they really did it tactfully in this film. It almost feels as if they deliberately shoe-horned in black people to fake making the story look "diverse."

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Of course, there were black people in France and throughout Europe in the 1700s.

There were a few famous people like Alexandre Dumas, the writer of "The Three Musketeers" who was born in France. His father, Thomas-Alexandre Dumas Davy de la Pailleterie lived there for many years and was a general during the French Revolution.

Chevalier de Saint-Georges was a famous musician and Queen Marie Antoinette's music director. He was a colonel during the French Revolution.

Abram Petrovich Gannibal, the great-grandfather of Pushkin (Russia's greatest writer), studied in France and was a friend of Voltaire. He became a military engineer in the Russian army.

Julien Raimond founded the Black Legions and defended Paris against attack by foreigners.

Joseph "Hercule" Damingue and his "Battalion of Black Pioneers" fought with Napoleon. Blacks fought for France in the French Revolutionary Wars and the Napolieonic Wars.

In the 1700s, a large black population was feared and the Police Des Noirs was passed in 1777, but was largely ignored.

BTW, the original purpose for the Statue of Liberty had nothing to do with immigration. Édouard René de Laboulaye was an abolitionist who commissioned its creation after his hero President Lincoln was assassinated. He wanted to celebrate the end of American slavery and American Independence as well as send a pro-democracy message to fellow Frenchmen during political turmoil in France. He founded two abolition groups in France and would raise money to free American slaves.

This happened in the 1800s, but for some reason, Americans purposely hide the statute's connection with slavery which upsets me so I am mentioning it.

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Thank you, finally a contribution from someone with some real knowledge of history!

Everybody shut up and read this again.

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Thanks, Otto. I believe the lack of accurate history lessons in schools help to keep bigotry alive.

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Actually, Keelai has no historical knowledge whatsoever. The "Police des Noirs" code he refers too only concerned the colonies. All the other people he mentions were very rare exceptions. They were biracial and from wealthy families. They also lived in large cities like Paris. Black people living equally among peasants on the French countryside in the 18th century is ridiculously unrealistic and a rewrite of history. And no, the presence of magic does not negate this. It's suspension of disbelief of a whole other order.

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Ever heard of the French author Alexandre Dumas? Look into his family history some time.

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Of course there were blacks then, you halfwit, because of slavery.

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The slaves lived in the colonies. There were very few black people in France and they certainly did not live in the countryside among the peasants. Please be careful calling other people nitwits.

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Another ignoramus making up facts and posting them in an arrogant manner to give them weight:

"African Americans, who are largely descended from Africans of the American colonial era, have lived and worked in France since the 1800s. Unofficial figures indicate that up to 50,000 free blacks emigrated to Paris from Louisiana in the decades after Napoleon sold the territory to the United States in 1803." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans_in_France


Also (because Wikipedia should never be trusted as the only source for any topic):


The rise of the French slave trade meant the number of black Africans living in France grew. A law of 1716 clarified their position by allowing masters from the islands to keep their slaves captive while in France. But a law of 1738 decreed black slaves could not stay in France more than three years, otherwise they would be confiscated by the Crown (and likely put to work on the royal navy's galleys).

The motive for this was the French authorities' eagerness to preserve their nation's racial purity, as illustrated by a royal declaration of 1777 which forbade entry of any black into France because "they marry Europeans, they infect brothels, and colors are mixed." . The restrictions rarely were enforced, however, and six years after the 1777 decree a ministerial circulaire complained that blacks continued to be imported. Merchants in Nantes kept so many black men and women in their fine houses that they could give négrillons or négrittes to members of their household as tips, and by the time of the Revolution there were enough nègres in Nantes to form a battalion (which got a dreadful reputation for murder and pillage). http://slavenorth.com/columns/frenchslavery.htm


Why do you want to embarrass yourself like this? It's far more admirable to admit that you don't know something than to make up facts to appear smart. Merely contradicting people is not a sign of intelligence no matter how much you think it is.

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Hey nitwit, your first quote refers to the 19th century and it mentions 50,000 free blacks spread over decades.

Your second quote (which is not necessarily more reliable just because it ISN'T Wikipedia, the writer actually sounds very biased) does a fine job proving there were black people living in France DESPITE them being slaves, not because they were slaves. They were most definitely exceptions and, like I said, did not live among the peasants on the French countryside. They almost exclusively resided in Paris and Nantes.

It's obvious you have a chip on your shoulder. You're constantly aggressive and condescending to people for no good reason. Don't be so sensitive if someone calls you out on that.

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