I think she sings in a wrongly way, like other woman's voice (not hers), in order to take revenge from Johnny, showing to the friends that she is fake and to not be able to take the money! That explains the strange faces (not happy) of everyone.. That' s what i understood from the end, is anyone else thinking the same?
shareNot at all. She deliberately asks to sing, much to Johnny's discomfort. As a pianist he accompanies her in a Kurt Weill number (played earlier on a gramophone). She sings the first verse in a semi whisper and most definitely not with the voice of a famed performer. As the second verse commences, she locks eyes with Johnny and starts to sing in her normal beautiful stage voice. At this moment, Johnny realises that she is actually Nelly (whom up to now he had believed had perished), a fact doubly confirmed by the concentration camp tattoo on her forearm that he subsequently notices. Hence his stunned disbelief and mortified shame at the end. The only thing I was not sure about, were whether the other people he had invited (old acquaintances) were participating in his ruse or not.
shareyes, Johnny's reaction is so clear.
The only thing I was not sure about, were whether the other people he had invited (old acquaintances) were participating in his ruse or not.
i think they were participating in the ruse; otherwise, how could he know BEFOREHAND what they were going to say? or do? , like when he anticipates that to Nelly when training her?
the same way he offered her 20000 dollars to simulate, he could have ALSO planned to have them "pretending" to recognize and immediately accept her.
IMHO, their reaction doesn't seem to be like the one who sees an Auschwitz survivor, everybody is behaving "VERY appropriately"
i think they were participating in the ruse; otherwise, how could he know BEFOREHAND what they were going to say? or do?
like when he anticipates that to Nelly when training her?
IMHO, their reaction doesn't seem to be like the one who sees an Auschwitz survivor, everybody is behaving "VERY appropriately"
Also, 'Phoenix' is focused on the sense of guilt haunting post-war Germany and the approach of those trying to avoid the naked truth. Johnny's speech about people wanting to see beautiful, happy faces instead of scars and bandages covers it quite well. I think it might fit the slightly cold reunion.
IMHO, their reaction doesn't seem to be like the one who sees an Auschwitz survivor, everybody is behaving "VERY appropriately"It's precisely that appropriate behaviour which suggests they believe this is Nelly returned from Auschwitz, miraculously alive. Their appropriate behaviour is awkward and stilted. How do they as Germans behave to their German Jewish friend when they know what was done to her and others in their name?
A bird sings and the mountain's silence deepens.share
It's precisely that appropriate behaviour which suggests they believe this is Nelly returned from Auschwitz, miraculously alive. Their appropriate behaviour is awkward and stilted. How do they as Germans behave to their German Jewish friend when they know what was done to her and others in their name?
And all the pieces matter (The Wire)share
The scene at the railway station was very well done, with Nelly reacting stiffly as the group of friends embraced her. She had no feeling for them.
A bird sings and the mountain's silence deepens.share
IMHO, their reaction doesn't seem to be like the one who sees an Auschwitz survivor, everybody is behaving "VERY appropriately"
Agreed. Even Nelly wanted everything back to normal. Find her husband and live her life. But she realized that wouldn't work. And the ending was her way of letting all the so called friends gathered know that despite their desire to forget the atrocities and move on, it couldn't possibly be that simple. Some things just don't come clean that easy.
shareThey were not participating. They were the object of the ruse to start with. Nelly had no surviving family. These remaining friends needed to be fooled in order for "pretend" Nelly to be able claim the inheritance, as presumably the executor would come looking for verification. Otherwise, what would be the point of the reunion scenario at the station?
As far as all the friends were concerned, there was never a question of this being Nelly. They groundwork was laid when Johnny informed them that Nelly was returning. Their only question would be why Nelly walked out, without a word, at the end of the song.
The bigger question is why Nelly went along with the ruse. I suppose she did it in an attempt to discover if he had betrayed her. She was very willing to believe that he had only done it unintentionally - the scenario she proposed to him when they were on the bicycle returning from the inn by the lake. But the divorce papers that Lene had left for her apparently cemented the conclusion that she could not love him.
The bigger question is why Nelly went along with the ruse. I suppose she did it in an attempt to discover if he had betrayed her. She was very willing to believe that he had only done it unintentionally - the scenario she proposed to him when they were on the bicycle returning from the inn by the lake. But the divorce papers that Lene had left for her apparently cemented the conclusion that she could not love him.
It was actually more than that. She said that Johnny was the only reason that she could survive from the camp. So by imitating her past, and being with Johnny in that way, she thought she could recover her identity again.This.
i think they were participating in the ruse; otherwise, how could he know BEFOREHAND what they were going to say? or do? , like when he anticipates that to Nelly when training her?
I was a bit unclear as to what motivated ..... *SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER AHEAD ....* Lene's suicide. Was she married to Johnny in fact? Was that what ultimately compelled her to off herself, that she'd somehow participated in his trickery of Nelly?
** There MUST be more than one way to skin this Cat! **
I thought that too...that his "betrayal" of Nellie was with her, thus the suicide.
shareWhat would be the point of the others participating in the ruse? Johnny wants to con the bank out of Nelly's money, hence he needs to establish the appearance of her being alive. He's got nothing to gain by others knowing or, rather, thinking it's not her. (Furthermore, if they're convinced it's her they'll be more persuasive in corroborating his story and her identity.)
I just think they're generally stunned by hearing her sing again, but the longer she sings, the less relevant they are to the scene, since her singing is mainly directed at Johnny.
Lena kills herself for some hardly believable, melodramatic reason as far as her letter is concerned (she's "more tied to the dead than the living"). But I think it's fairly well implied she's in love with Nelly and realizes she can't have her.
The friends weren't stunned hearing Nelly sing, Johnny was. The friends were confused and unsure of what was going on once Johnny stopped playing, while his wife kept on singing.
Revenge is a dish that best goes stale.
I think Lena can't cope with life after what she witnessed. In one scene she says: We are coming back and forgiving for those who can't come back. Or something similar. And she strongly disagrees with their right to do so. At the same time she sees that even Nelly is at some point willing to forgive Johnny, believing in him even though Lena is sure Johnny betrayed Nelly. In the end she feels alone, only marking deaths on pictures and she feels close to them by seeing no future for herself, given Nelly is most probably going to stay with Johnny. But this is only my assumption so... ;-)
shareLena's reason for suicide is not "hardly believable". It's quiet common in those who are experiencing "survivor's guilt". She was disgusted by her contemporary society, she could not forgive, and she felt that there was no place for her in this world.
I don't think it had anything to do with a love affair between Lene and Nelly or Lene and Johnny, as some suggested.
But I do think that Nelly was the only person left who tied Lene to this world. And now that Nelly was leaving, possibly to be with Johnny, Lene didn't see a point of going on.
Lord Arthur Goring: To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance.
Hi,
My first post.
I think you are mostly right, although Lene would have felt abandoned. Maybe she was in love with Nelly.
The end left me a little perplexed, however it appears most of the commenters came to the same conclusion I did.
The people in the audience serve as witnesses to Johnny's betrayal. We all witness together the moment Johnny discovers Nelly's true identity and his own guilt. He unknowingly brings himself to trial, and his guilt condemns him.
Nelly turns and leaves her past behind her, left to rise like a phoenix from the ashes. She has overcome her temptation to suicide, alluded to in the death of Lene, the scene of the revolver in the bathroom and Nelly's position to the oncoming train; and she has succeeded in bringing to justice at least one of the perpetrators who has done evil to her. Nelly's conscience is clear, her spirit free in knowing that she tried to save the object of her love, who refused to be saved.
Best ending since Casablanca.
Absolutely, Jimboucherat.
What hump?
Her voice tells him it's his wife, her tattooed number tells him what he's done to her. Nothing more, nothing less.
shareAbout Lene:
I'm not disregarding the possibility she was in love with Nelly. As a theory, it's as good as many others. But people who think that 'being more attracted to the dead than the living' is a melodramatic and unconvincing reason seem to be forgetting history. There was a suicide epidemic among German Jews in the 1933-1945 period. Books have been written about mass suicide in Third Reich Germany. People like Levi, Paul Celan or Bruno Bettelheim all killed themselves years later, because they could never really recover. Lene obviously couldn't stand the behaviour of Post-War Germany and cleary states how appalled she is by the thought that Jewish people should just forgive and forget. When Nelly decides she wants to go back to Johnny, whom Lene knows as traitor and deeply hates, I think it's the final blow.
Did you watch the movie?
~RANKING 2015 FILMS~
www.imdb.com/list/ls073654147/
Last seen: Phoenix (9/10)