MovieChat Forums > Phoenix (2014) Discussion > What was the point (spoilers)

What was the point (spoilers)


So what was the of Nelly putting up with this whole thing? I would have assumed it was to see if he actually loved her and find out why he betrayed her, but isn't that question answered essentially immediately? I mean, he wants her to fake be his dead wife to collect her inheritance - the guy is clearly looking out for number one.

I don't understand why Nelly keeps hanging around, and why she then subsequently leaves. Finding divorce documents was enough to break them up, but the whole fake dead wife to collect inheritance wasn't?

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"The heart has its reasons that reason doesn't understand."--Blaise Pascal

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I was actually hoping that Nelly was going to just collect her inheritance and then say to Johnny, "oh look, here are our divorce papers, so you won't get a penny. Bon Voyage!" But it didn't happen that way.

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Kind of did happen that way though. They just end it with the climax of the song, but those events would follow

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Was hoping that too.

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I can see why people find it implausible that Nelly goes along with Johnny's plan. But I think the movie lays out very solid psychological motives for her not to tell Johnny who she is and to go along with his plan. Below, I'll try to articulate as I see it.

Nelly is someone who went through hell. Her biggest fear is that the camp destroyed who she was, that she is never going to be old Nelly. When she has the reconstructive surgery, she asks to be exactly like she was (contrary to Doctor's and Lene's advice.) When she sees her reflection in the broken mirror after reconstruction she says 'I don't exist.' Looking at her old picture, she says 'This is me.' . All she wants is being old Nelly, finding Johnny and going back to their old life. She even puts herself in great danger looking for him. (The guy she mistakes for Johnny.) When she finally finds Johnny and he does not recognize her, as she later tells Lene, it was as if she was dead. Her biggest fears were confirmed; she was not the Nelly he knew and loved anymore. First night he does not recognize her, she gets overwhelmed and runs away. But she comes back to confront him next day, because she cannot just walk away, thought of Johnny kept her alive through the camp. When Johnny first brings her to his apartment, there is a small moment, it looks like she is about to say "Johnny it's me!", (Nina Höss is superb at communicating the unsaid.) but Johnny cuts her off. Just before he walks out of the door, she asks him 'Do I really look like her?', he coldly answers "No, but you will." After that, I think, it is very psychologically plausible she does not tell the truth. She cannot face with the possibility that she will tell Johnny and he will be disappointed with her post-camp self. Of course, this is preposterous if she really believes Johnny loves her, but remember she survived the camps, she is extremely traumatized, she thinks she "doesn't exist" anymore. After that, she stays with Johnny with mixed motives of both hope that he will recognize her at some point and hope that he will make her into her old self.

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Very well said.

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Nelly was in denial as much as Johnny was: she wanted to believe he truly loved her and hadn't betrayed her, so she pursued the plan hoping to find out that she was right. Also, Johnny wanting her to be part of his ruse didn't automatically mean that he had given her to the authorities. Sure, using a stranger to impersonate your dead wife and collect an inheritance doesn't feel like a noble gesture, but he was a desperate man who'd lost everything. He may have been ready to do a petty thing for money now that his wife was officially dead, but that didn't necessarily mean that he'd been the one to hurt her in the first place. Probably Nelly wanted to think that one of the reasons behind his plan was his desire to have his (supposedly) dead wife back with in some form? Perhaps.

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There is a serious misunderstanding here.

I would have assumed it was to see if he actually loved her and find out why he betrayed her, but isn't that question answered essentially immediately?


No, it isn't. Just because Johnny wanted to collect her inheritance didn't mean he didn't love her or he was involved in sending her into a camp. He might have been forced into the divorce by the Nazis (Nelly didn't even know about the divorce until the end), and just wanted to take the money he had the moral right to have, and start a new life somewhere else with that.

Clearly it wasn't the case after all (he did betray Nelly), but it was an option until the third act.

Perhaps it was a bit too obvious how would the movie end (I'd have preferred a little more clues for the "loving husband" option), but it was definitely the filmmakers' intention to keep us in the dark until the end.

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Right, Nelly didn't think he betrayed her. She told Lena that. She told Lena that she couldn't go to Palestine, she wanted to stay with Johnny. There was some real denial there - she hadn't thought it through. He would not have stayed with her once she got her money.

Johnny was the only thing that got her through the horrors of the concentration camp, and she clung to it. It's like Vertigo in that Madeline lets Jimmy Stewart (wasn't his name Johnny too?) remake her, and he'll fall in love with her again. In her heart I think Nelly may have known more of the truth than she would admit, but she thought if she let him recreate her, he would fall in love with her again.

Why not just tell him the truth? Think about if Johnny had known she was Nelly. He had no right to the money. She didn't know he divorced her. I think he would have claimed mad passionate love and say he wanted to remarry her, that he was forced to divorce her. And she might have fallen for it. In her heart, I think she knew he didn't love "Nelly" but maybe he would love this new girl.

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You replied to me but we're talking about very different things.

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yes, sorry.

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She loved him, she was curious. perhaps a bit infuriated that he didn't recognize her. She probably would have realized on her own, but Lena's death and the divorce documents sealed the deal. You can't forgive gassing, death is too terrible, his betrayal was too profound.

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She was afraid to tell him. Because of what had happened between them. At the end she finally got the courage to.

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