MovieChat Forums > Phoenix (2014) Discussion > Opening Scene in Return from the Ashes

Opening Scene in Return from the Ashes

posted 9 years ago by piggoleto
9 replies | jump to latest

I'm so old I saw "Return from the Ashes" in a theater in 1965. While it wasn't a great movie, the brief opening scene is good - the camp survivor is returning by train to her home. A bored kid in her compartment kicks idly at the exterior door, which opens and spills him onto the tracks, where he is killed. To the horror of the other riders, she hasn't tried to stop the boy and has no reaction to his death. They then see her number tattoo, and become silent.

[–] joseph-levin-53-455710 9 years ago

Piggoleto,

While I disagree with your appraisal of the film, I would like to commend you and Mr. Selliot for not letting the already obscure Return from the Ashes from being forgotten altogether and not even mentioned in all of the reviews of Phoenix at this site and only as meager reply at the site that review Phoenix's screening at the Toronto film festival.

Thank you both greatly and sincerely.

would just say, as someone just a little younger than you, that when one remembers a film after 50 years for the impression left, it says something right away about its merit. I was able to track down a pirate copy a few years before Warner Archive finally released it this past year. I hope that all of you reviewers and message board writers have a look at this earlier version with its strengths of acting (Ingrid Thulin, Maximilian Schell, Samantha Eggar and Herbert Lom, cinematography (the great British cameraman, Christopher Challis), music (John Dankworth) and screenwriting (the famous Julius Epstein, famous for so many films but notable for his part in the screenplay of that obscure, notorious cult classic, Casablanca!)not that it's so readily available.

[–] piggoleto 9 years ago

Hi, Joe,

You're correct about the movie. I realized after reading your post what a striking movie it was. I can still "see" several of the scenes in my head.

I probably heard more than a little kid should about the war. (My aunt and uncle had learned they couldn't have children so I spent a lot of time with them when I was very young. My Uncle Al had been in the part of Patton's army which first entered Dachau. I think the US soldiers weren't prepared for the sight. They allowed the prisoners to kill some of the guards,and Patton didn't stop them. It was pretty much hushed up, and the US soldiers weren't allowed to bring photos of the camp home. My uncle smuggled out some pretty horrible photos in his boot.)

But I don't remember many films about the aftermath of the war in Germany.

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

Warmest regards,

Sue

[–] joseph-levin-53-455710 9 years ago

Not to pull this out with too many replies,but my father having been a WWII veteran and particularly The Battle of the Bulge. Amongst his stories was one in which, having gotten a lift with some buddies by a couple of other soldiers, woke up in the back of the truck sooner than his friends. Keeping his eyes shut, feigning sleep, he did this because of the chilling sound of the driver speaking German to the his cohort. (The Nazis at the express wish of Hitler had recruited English-speaking Germans and dropped them behind our lines to disrupt communications, mis-direct traffic, commit acts of sabotage and mayhem.)

So as a pre-teenager in addition to other seminal adult-oriented films like Inherit the Wind, Lonely are the Brave and Judgment at Nuremburg, I got my share of films of the War. Amongst them is one I strongly recommend as many other IMDBers. The title is Morituri, a middle-career-period film of Marlon Brando's opposite Yul Brynner in his perhaps strongest performance on par with that of the King and I. Along side of the pair is a superb cast including Martin Benrath (later in Bergman's From the Life of Marionettes), Janet Margolin, Trevor Howard, Wally Cox and the great German character actor, Hans Christian Blech (many fine films, terrible last name). Technically, the cinematography is breath-taking and the music, another superlative Jerry Goldsmith score.

But, the most striking quality that adds tremendously to its poignancy is the dark tone provided by its director, an anti-Nazi german, Bernhard Wicki. He was responsible for the justly worldwide celebrated anti-war film of the the end of the 50's and 60's, The Bridge about a group of children who are all that are left to defend a bridge in Germany at the close of WWII. They are, of course, decimated. Wicki also directed all of the German sequences from Zanuck's The Longest Day.

He din't fare well with Brando though you'd never know it from the extraordinary performance the latter delivers. And IMDB members tend to begrudge Wicki's successes, downgrading his skills as a director but the work speaks for itself. I urge you to take a look at Morituri if you aren't already familiar with it.

Regards,

Joe

[–] CincyDude 9 years ago

Excellent posts, Joseph. Feel free to "pull this out" with as many replies as you wish to post.

[–] piggoleto 8 years ago

Ah, real life intruded on our conversation in the form of all those everyday responsibilities, but I wanted to tell you how very much I appreciated you taking your time to indulge my pleasure in story telling- a skill quickly disappearing in today's world. Hope you will take time to write down your memories of your Dad for your kids and grandkids.
I also really appreciated your film suggestions. I don't know if I could watch "The Bridge" - it's hard for me to watch films about kids - but Brandon and Yul Brynner in Morituri must be forceful.
Hope your favorites win on Oscar night; I saw The Revenant with a couple of strapping grandsons, which was fun! As was enjoying your observations. Good viewing!

[–] filmflamfilm 8 years ago

Amongst his stories was one in which, having gotten a lift with some buddies by a couple of other soldiers, woke up in the back of the truck sooner than his friends. Keeping his eyes shut, feigning sleep, he did this because of the chilling sound of the driver speaking German to the his cohort. (The Nazis at the express wish of Hitler had recruited English-speaking Germans and dropped them behind our lines to disrupt communications, mis-direct traffic, commit acts of sabotage and mayhem.)

Not necessarily. My father, who left Germany when he was in his early 20s, joined the Allied forces and fought against Germany during the war. There were thousands of young Germans, Austrians, Frenchmen, Hungarians, etc., mostly Jewish, who had fled their countries after the Nazis took them over. Quite a few of them ended up in the Allied forces. In fact, modern Germans made a film about the German ex-patriots who ended up in the US army. The film is called "The Ritchie Boys."

So, it is very possible that the soldiers speaking German in your father's jeep were German, but fighting for the US side. It wasn't only the Nazis who used multi-lingual soldiers for their advantage.

[–] joseph-levin-53-455710 8 years ago

Thank you. Though I'm familiar with the Fred Zinnemann-Oskar Werner film that deals with just that, I didn't make the link in my mind. A fresh piece of information for me and I' grateful.

[–] filmflamfilm 8 years ago

You are quite welcome. It's only a shame that so few IMDB users seem interested in information about that period. You are one of the exceptions. I hope you also enjoyed this excellent film.

Here, btw, is an IMDB link to the Ritchie Boys film: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0435725/reference

And here's a link to the people who made the film: http://www.ritchieboys.com/EN/story.html

[–] filmflamfilm 8 years ago

My Uncle Al had been in the part of Patton's army which first entered Dachau. I think the US soldiers weren't prepared for the sight. They allowed the prisoners to kill some of the guards,and Patton didn't stop them.

Patton was revealed, perhaps more after the war, as an anti-semite. He, for example, wrote in his personal journal: that people believe "the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews who are lower than animals. ..."

I don't believe Patton was actually there when Dachau was liberated. The US forces were led by Brigadier General Henning Linden. After the war, Patton was appointed the military governor of Bavaria. There was a hearing about the conduct of the US soldiers in Dachau (which is in Bavaria). Patton dismissed the charges against the soldiers charged with killing Germans in the camp.