Hey Chevy-no problem
Absolutely not. It was a fair question to ask. Me be frank? Haha but yes I tried to be as candid as is me. Also in light of what your friend went through I can see the humiliation deeper than I saw with Drew. These were guys in your squad that he had to see day in and day out. And I'm sure with the military or correct me if I'm wrong word spread like wildfire who's wife it was sleeping with the boss before their second encounter. How does one look at your CO after discovering he slept with your wife and he's smiling like a cheshire cat? No remorse as if your friends wife was just another notch in his belt.
it can make you go crazy, sweating, tears, MANY emotional responses - just like you even though you are VERY confident and trusting with your marriage.
Absolutely no arguement there. I guess with Drew since no one knew except the families involved he didn't have to face a humiliation squad so he dealt with it discreetly and adult like even though the little digs he said to Sara seemed very tame imo. I too was disappointed that the writers went back and forth whether or not to make him meanie Drew or unfairly maimed/accepting Drew who just wanted to keep his family together. I would have prefered he had taken Sara's keys and not allowed her to come in to pick up or drop off Oliver without notice and tell her to her face to face how much she hurt him and ask her questions but not about where she and Jack did it. That scene in the living room where they finally talk, I could have written that scene better.
I go back to the scene in the hospital where he recaps a date and tells her she is stronger than he ever imagined. He really loves her and I feel she loves him equally but she allowed his job and her insecurities get the best of her. She was weak. Sara didn't use Oliver as a pawn as your friends ex did with their daughter and that's why the daughter thinks of her step mother as a real mother because she doesn't trust her mother knowing that she left them...for what? She's not even with the same man is she? As I said many times Sara and Drew did the right thing with not involving Oliver and talking to him making him understand that sometimes adults need to spend some time apart because things are not going well. Nothing more needed to be said imo because he's not of age to need to know more. I know you may disagree with that and his mother should have been honest with him but he never asked her why she was late, he just said your late mommy or why she wasn't home when he had a bead dream. The writers were very clever in side stepping that issue. It did finally come out while he was standing with his mother at Drew's stump speech.
Ironically, the ONLY people who can hurt us the most are the ones we love and are supposed to love us
So true!
I agree again Drew's role was not written with consistency and did not imo portray a real life situation. I've seen firsthand what a nasty divorce entails and the impact it has on older children.
I think after the hurt and shock wore off with him(in one episode mind you) he was serving her with divorce papers so that told me right there his pride was too proud to beg her to stay. He went through this with his own father leaving and he was deternmined not to leave his son as he told him in a scene they shared. Even through his sarcasm with Sara you could tell he was hurting inside and as the episodes neared the end he saw an opportunity to either derail Jack and Sara or truly warn her as he said "what you signed up for with this man."
Sara was blamed. Vic blamed her and shot her. Drew's beef was with Jack. Isn't that the case with men who's wives cheat on them, they want a piece of the guy who violated his marriage then go after the cheating wife? As perfectjade stated Sara did hold up her end of the agreement. She didn't pursue Jack, he pursued her(coming to her studio to check on her) and Drew knew how vulnerable she was having been threatened and also ending her relationship with Jack something he felt she may not have wanted to do and I know you and others feel he should have asked her what in the hell are you doing with Jack? Drew went after Jack because it made sense for him to do that. He could have asked Sara off camera, we'll never know but most likely he didn't because I think even he felt Sara loved Oliver too much to jeopardize losing him. Drew's deep dislike for Jack gave him a reason to release his frustration on him after seeing thr photo.
The end scene where they meet after seeing one another on the platform was not a big deal, it was not a meet up for lunch or making plans to see one another but it showed that Sara does or did have feelings for Jack, no doubt about that. My beef with Sara is that she should not have gone to Jack's job and waited for him just to say is doing the right thing mean never seeing obne another because I don't know if it is the right thing to do." Sara! What the hell is wrong with you? Did you not hear what Drew said? "Maybe we had to go through all of this to get this close."
I only hope with time apart from Jack her memory of him and them will fade. I did believe when she said she wanted to be with Drew and I also believe that Drew was right she can't really trust what she's thinking or feeling, neither of them can right now. You just don't get torn apart like they did and sucked back together after a night of love making and her living there acting like a family. Sara's heart was all over the place and I honestly believe that scene showing her on the bridge looking at a flashback of her life she chose Drew for so many reasons. He's familar, he's been there for her and he's secure AND unlike Jack he can look her in the eye and tell her he loves her. With Jack she had no guarantees excpet that he gave her everything she wanted and made her feel loved. She was his escape route to happiness. Did he love her? On the surface yes but deep down no and that's just my .2 worth which doesn't amount to much
Brings me to my last point/ question, which I posed to "perfectjade" about 10 days ago but did not receive a response. You alluded to it above that "feelings (for Jack) don't go away"? Is this a "woman thing" that you can live with your husband but fantasize and dwell on another man, to the exclusion of your husband and call that "working on it". And do feelings of LOVE ever go away? i.e. Will/ Can she EVER stop loving Jack? If not, how can she mend her relationship with Drew and expect it to thrive and improve if she can't get Jack out of her head - emotionally and sexually?
The feelings don't go away overnight. I can't speak for men but I remember my husband tellig me it took him quite some time to get over a girlfriend before he got married to his ex. Even with his new wife he said a song or something he would see would make him think of her. He said after the first year of marriage and the birth of his son his thoughts of her just faded out. It takes some time and with Sara telling Jack she loved him after only a few weeks together would make some men retreat in a heartbeat. This is why I say Sara's feelings didn't go that deep for Jack, it was surface level love, intense and mostly physical. How many times did she get emotional over him? She was all over the map. I think being with Drew 2,000 + miles away from Chicago would do her good. I can look back at the scenes form ep #12 and 13 and the way she looks at Drew, they way he looks at her, they still love one another and want to be together.
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Chevy4279
10 years ago
Kwrwolf - regarding my friend it was his Flt Commander, who was supposed to become XO. Karma - that did NOT happen and his career went in the toilet by being taken out of the "command" stream. And he ended up divorced from his wife and he was posted out. For some selfish, gratuitous fun he virtually ended his career, lost his marriage and ruined someone else's - although my friend's wife was at least 50% to blame - all she had to do was say NO!
I'm glad you agree with me about how poorly/ unrealistically the writers developed Drew's character and role. In reality, I think MOST men and women would be more angry, reactive and inquisitive about WHY or "what were you thinking" type questions. The latter would have enabled MORE accountability/ blame directed towards Sara. As it played out Drew never really "held her feet to the fire" and have her explain beyond the simplistic "I'm just an accessory".
I get the concept of her having feelings for Jack (or in real life situations), but I think that Drew needs to know that she did approach Jack and ask him if it's the right thing to do (i.e. NOT see each other). To me, that is essential information that Drew has a right (or needs) to know in order to assess if D/S are able to effectively reunite? IMO to "let go" of Jack she should avoid him, not pursue him and express her frustration WHY he didn't visit her - she is still vulnerable and "low hanging fruit" if Jack wants a bite!
I know you strongly believe that D/S can make it work and, if not for that street scene where she approached Jack and moved in close to him, I would too. But with her "feelings" all it would take to re-start the affair is Jack to ask her up to see his new place OR later on give her a call and ask to see her. Ironically, the only reason it didn't happen (yet?) is because of Jack's integrity, not hers - go figure? Sara approaching Jack is playing with fire and Drew could get burned again.
But all this is speculative - perhaps at some point the producer/ director will issue a statement or article about some of the uncertainties or at least resolve some of the ambiguities that they left behind. I don't think a Season 2 will happen.
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Kwrwolf
10 years ago
Chevy-Karma's a bitch they say. What goes around comes around and the flight commander and the wife certainly got theirs. Alone and unhappy or even if their with other people I bet they're unhappy. Having something so good in the beginning was not the worth having the affair in the end.
Yeah the writers really did a disservice to Drew's character by not shwoing more emotion. I don't know if it was because his father left and he had no father figure in his life growig up that made him feel forgiving towards Sara. His mother was the only role model he had. Sons learn so much from their fathers as head of the households-a portion of the glue that supports the family and keeps it together. I'm not saying that he didn't have the skills to do it, surely he did but he lacked a male role rodel unless he had a very gracious and learned grandfather. Again I feel this is why he wanted so much to keep his family together so he didn't look like a failure to to his son as his father did to him. I just wish the writers would have had Drew converse more with Sara about why he was unhappy. We heard her reason but why what did Sara do pre the affair to make Drew unhappy? Agree he should have pressed her harder.
I don't know if I STRONGLY believe they can make it work I just have hope from what I saw in the last two episodes but too much dialogue was missing for me to 100% believe they will live happily ever after. I can see and understand if Drew had doubts about Sara while they are in the act of intimacy or if she is late coming home. I can see Sara becoming frustrated with Drew if he continuously asks what happened? Traffic? Or if chooses not to go to counseling, rather they talk it out themselves. Drew doesn't strike me as the type to air out his business, he's more private and reserved as a person imo. Sara I feel would want a third party to point out things to Drew that she couldn't and in turn the counselor can do the same with Sara that Drew couldn't. Like I said it's an uphill battle TRUST is a key issue. WHY Sara HAD to-grrrr, go see Jack at his job and ask AGAIN why he didn't come to see her at the hospital?
That scene was so mixed messaged to me especially after she and Drew just had a conversation in their kitchen and from my perspective that was Drew's awkward and subtle way of saying to Sara "Yes we're moving t D.C. as a family if I win."
She wanted him to just come out and say it loud and clear for her so I think that's why everything was still in the "I'm not sure, neither of us are" mood as she told her geek friend Nate. The writers definitely have Sara as the one who is going to have a harder time than Jack letting go. Always the woman to be perceived as the weak and lustful one haha but sad! Can she forget about Jack? I'd like to think so if she doesn't live in the same state as him. Moving to Washington just might be what she needs to put distance between her feelings for Jack and totally commit to her marriage if they are to reconcile and succeed.
I don't think she needs to tell Drew that she saw Jack. If she's telling Drew one moment that she'll be on stage with him if he wants her to and she's not ready to move out every three days and wanting to get back together is not just all for Oliver. I still shake my head the way the order of the scenes went. They seemed a bit out of order imo. Sara is genuinely happy for him because this is his dream that he's wanted all along so why tell Drew that she's unsure if it's the right thing to do to not see each other? Jack said good bye to her. Leave it alone or as they say don't awake the sleeping giant. Sara didn't say "Jack I love you, I want us to have our dream" instead she wanted an answer from him that was WHAT she wanted to hear and when he looked her square in the eye and told her "For the first time in my life I did the right thing, she got emotional thinking if I don't have my family and I don't have you then who do I have? Next we saw Sara deciding what life she wanted. I want to think that she chose her family and put Drew and his dream first and began to filter out Jack.
Leaving it up to the viewers discretion did absolutely no good. They should have showed who it was meeting her but they chickened out and as the French say...c'est la vie
*Crosby's goal last night, well one of them anyways vs Buffalo....awwwwe-some!
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Chevy4279
10 years ago
Kwrwolf: I am without words! It seems that we are in agreement after all!
The ending is/was disappointing by leaving it up to us. Despite the writers/ director saying that there would be closure (i.e. tidied-up), they didn't do that. My theory is that the low ratings PO'd the producers and they left things hanging intentionally to "punish" or get even with the poor response; BUT, the only ones that were/are inconvenienced are the few viewers that DID watch the show. The irony is that the ones that DIDN'T watch don't know and don't care!
OR, maybe they were hoping for a Season 2 and wanted an unresolved cliff-hanger to launch next season? At this point I don't think the writers know who the mystery-man at the restaurant is - if a season 2 they would sit down and write various story-boards to decide if it was Drew, Jack or a client (i.e. Sara is a call-girl), or some other non-paying lover assuming Jack wants nothing to with her.
Way back in the 80's on the show "Dallas" at the end of one season "someone shot JR" (Larry Hagman, the bad guy) - all you saw was a gun and JR falls to the floor. NOONE, writers OR cast) knew who shot JR until JUST prior to the new season. AND during the summer, to keep the secret, EVERY actor/ actress (12 - 15 of them) was filmed shooting JR and at the last minute the producer/ writers inserted their choice, which they revealed years later they didn't know/ decide until less than a week before. Not saying that "Betrayal" is that complex but until/ unless there is a reason to provide closure they don't have to reveal WHO was in the restaurant (or anything else)?
If you read anything from the producers/ writers about what/ who they had in mind for the restaurant scene (or other Qs) let us know.
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Kwrwolf
10 years ago
Kwrwolf: I am without words! It seems that we are in agreement after all!
Chevy-Say it isn't so BUT IT IS
Wow what a weekend, had my sister visiting, been watching the olympics. Not so much for the hockey but I've always been an ice skating fan. There's been so much controversy over whether to watch because of the venue where it's being held so viewership is down and I just say it's for the athletes who train so hard to be part of this and they don't get a choice of where to compete so just suck it up people. Puttin is a filthy rotten dog and his house is full of *beep* and it still will be after the games.
The low ratings should not have po'd the producers. They should have known by putting Betrayal in that death time slot it was doomed from the get. What show in the last decade has survived against CBS shows? 0. Interesting to see if Revenge that was in the 9:00 time slot has now been moved to Betrayal's cemetery plot so let's see if it keeps it's 9:00 p.m. ratings.
I do remember Dallas and Who Shot JR but not in 1980. Understanding all that craze came later when I watched reruns on TNT. My parents and older brother watched religiously when it all began. Too late for me to stay up having been 4 and 1/2 years old when it aired in April 1978. Saw various interview clips on ET and that probably had to be the most clever idea not to have just one of the cast shoot him but all so nothing could be leaked. Victoria Principal told a reporter that she was offered millions to reveal who did it. They never believed her when she said "Honestly I have no idea, I think it was me."
But why not have closure? If they knew they were not getting renewed why not just wrap up the whole D/S/J storyline? It was left as a cliffhanger making people think that it's coming back. Bad decision imo to leave it like that because it never graduated the character of Sara but everyone else got their closure.
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Chevy4279
10 years ago
Kwrwolf - can we, or dare we, go 2-for-2 on agreement?
Ditto about the Olympics. Support the athletes and their hard work and dedication and suspend the politics and petty agendas for a couple of weeks. You KNOW who I want to get gold in hockey! Afterwards we can go back to criticizing Putin for harboring Snowden! You take an OATH - it HAS to mean something - sort of like marriage?
I agree about the low ratings and the factor of it's time slot, but if the show is strong enough viewers will find it whatever the time and support it. There have been many opinions and comments about WHY it was so unpopular - I think the theme of infidelity may have turned off potential viewers because so many people have been directly and/or indirectly affected by it, and the show was not perceived as "just entertainment"?
When the director wrote awhile back that the story would be resolved (can't remember the exact words) I interpreted that as NO CLIFFHANGAR as Season 2 was not planned, or if it was, the early ratings/ reviews pretty much ended that plan. The board reflects anger, frustration and confusion about the wishy-washy ending. I opined that the director was PO'd about the low support, but as you stated WHY would they risk offending the ones who did watch (albeit small numbers)? Another possibility is that with a cliff-hangar ending MAYBE they are hoping that a barrage of complaints MIGHT prompt ABC (or another network) to go for another Season?
BUT if there WAS a Season 2, how would it unfold? This type of theme HAS to be dynamic and perhaps even disturbing to follow the theme of "betrayal". If D/S ARE back together (i.e. it was Drew in the restaurant) does she start another affair (with Jack or someone else) in parallel with the storyline of Season 1, but maybe doesn't get caught so soon? OR has she become a high-class callgirl and the guy in the restaurant is a "client"? All the other characters and storylines are pretty much done - Karsten is dead so no evil empire to provide a secondary theme? Elaine was unfaithful but was never really meant to be a central character? I think the director(s)/ writers would be in panic IF ABC said "Season 2 - go for it"!
I don't follow social media (Facebook or Twitter) so there may be some discussion about WHAT the director had in mind with the open-ended "conclusion"? OR some of the Hollywood rags might have some insight from producers and/or actors about what that restaurant scene was all about - we may have missed something obvious or subtle that would she some light on it? Otherwise, I guess we can choose our own ending(s) - D/S, J/S, S/(another boyfriend) or Sara is a call-girl? That way everybody is right AND wrong!
I hope Olympic hockey is exciting - a good three-way fight between Canada-USA-Russia - each team has an "axe to grind" with the others. I fully expect to be able to gloat - my team losing is "not an option"! Cheers!
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Kwrwolf
10 years ago
Chevy-We will certianly give it a shot Sliding in that marriage comment regarding oath I see haha! No but you're right an oath is sacred and should not be broken for any reason.
The chatter around the water cooler has Sweden favored but many would like to see a Canadian/US match up for the gold or Canada/Russia or US/Russua but overall consenus is that Russia loses and loses badly to either of us. I like that idea and if it were up to me thank goodness it's not I wouldn't even have Russia in the medal rounds. How embarrassing if they lose. I bet Putin chokes on his homemade cocktail of Redbull and vodka lol!
I agree the number one reason it did so poorly was because it affected many who have personal experiences with infidelity. Secondly the time slot and then on the down the line with the cast not being known even though I thought it was a good esemble. Truthfully I no idea who Hannah Ware was, Chris Johnson, Wendy Moniz Grillo and the kids. Only ones I did know were Henry Thomas and James Cromwell. In many ways they complemented one another. Hannah's lack of an American accent really turned people off.
Lol there you go again with the call girl. They would not make her to be a call girl so think of something else, wait...no don't do that I don't trust you haha!
How about a young hot intern working for Drew in his D.C. office has a major crush on him and it doesn't sit well with Sara. Karsten has a brother and guess what he's just as evil if not more. He comes from all places Russia haha and decides to carry on the Karsten legacy in Chi-town. T.J. returns from CA married. The uncle is successful in having Vic moved to a psychiatric institution and his sentence is reduced. Val and Jules break up because Jules was always a shady character. Elaine is engaged and Jack is trudging along. He runs into Sara at JFK. Sara and Nate worked on a story that nabs Sara glory for her pics. She's waiting for her connecting flight to D.C. and Jack is returning from some war torn country with yet another child refugee waiting for his connecting flight to Chicago. Mind you they haven't seen one another in six months. Sara has a baby bump but it's Drew's and she and Jack meet and...
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Chevy4279
10 years ago
Kwrwolf - I'm not the only one who has suggested that an OPTION is that she is a call-girl and "on-the-job". My criterion (singular) is her level of make-up and her clothing - NOT seen or indicated up to then that she is predisposed to a flashy (even lurid) appearance for either Drew or Jack? So why now or then depending on the unknown time-gap to that last scene? BUT (so far) there is no real closure to the finale so ANY option is possible? However, in deference to you I will concede that D/S are together (and happier than ever) and she has something important and significant to tell Drew!? A "Happily Ever After" ending!
I think your scenarios could be plausible but perhaps lack potential for a really gripping, dynamic or attention-getting plot (based on infidelity and betrayal) compared to the circumstances of this past season. The writers would have to do a lot in a very short window to bridge the gap (time elapsed and character development) between last Ep and 1st Ep of a Season 2 with varying sub-plots: Sara pregnant; new crime boss (established) and Vic released early and the protégé?; Drew in Congress (Sara in DC or Chitown, did D/S effectively reunite?); Drew boinking an intern; Jack/ Sara chance meeting (her 6 mo pregnant); Elaine engaged (to "wine-guy"/ ex-FBI agent); TJ - he and Vic taking up where Jack left off?
Drew having an affair with an intern would be a table-turner but out of character for HIM (but perhaps a job specification for a Washington politician)! Would that involve a mirror-image storyline with Drew as the cheater while Sara is unaware that Drew really is a dog and she gets suspicious and hunts him down!
HOW would a chance J/S meeting unfold - is baby Jack's or Drew's (for SURE)? If Jack's do they set-up house together and Drew is again second-place? If Drew's baby does Sara hook-up with Jack while pregnant? WEIRD scenario but why not?!
The director/ writers had an opportunity to wrap this up MUCH cleaner and more decisively than they did. A Season 2 would IMO be very difficult to overcome the way they left it, OR they would almost need brand new characters. And the way ratings are considered if they didn't get HIGH numbers in the first two Eps it would be cancelled.
I think the director has created a lose-lose situation - no one is happy with the ending AND a Season 2 would be VERY tough to develop because of the way that Ep 13 was so disjointed and vague.
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Kwrwolf
10 years ago
Chevy-I know you weren't the only one so I just had to chuckle that you were still on that call girl kick
Happier than ever? Now I wouldn't go so far to say that. They still have an uphill battle. That last scene could have been her just very happy for him that he won his election and they agreed to stay married and continue to work things out plus I could see Sara getting a lot of attention from news agencies or even Nat Geo to cover a stroy in Africa where she could run into Jack doing his dutiful job and reconnecting families. What would happen between them? Well not sure how strong Sara is by not having seen Jack for months now allowing herself to focus on her, Drew and Oliver. Drew finds out that Jack is in Africa the same time Sara is there and it drives him crazy because it's hard to get a hold of her. Remember I said it takes time for feelings to fade so it all depends how strong minded Sara is to stay committed to her marriage.
Not necessarily Drew having an affair because I agree it would seem totally ooc but it's possible. I wouldn't go that route but what I would go for is his young hot intern to be lusting after him. Sara stops by for their lunch date and finds them, well the intern so to speak a little too close to Drew for her comfort plus they way she's dressed, her clevage showing as she writing copious notes. Drew assures it's nothing probably just a crush. Drew mind you is 32 and she's just a ripe ol 21 year old. when Drew has to go out of town with the intern Sara sits at home wondering and her affair with Jack starts to hit home and she becomes jealous. Drew has a moment with this intern and tells her he's flattered but he's married and doesn't need a scandal to rock his world right now. One's enough with the aftermath of Sara and Jack.
Karsten's brother Thadius Karsten the II is here and means to make amends with all the Chicago politicians that wronged his brother. Aunt Connie makes a return as well. Vic is plotting in jail to finish the job he started with Sara because he sees how messed up inside Jack is over their break up.
In all honesty I don't think they have the ammo to do a second season but it's fun imagining what could be.
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Chevy4279
10 years ago
Kwrwolf - I was wondering if you had some secret intel about a plot/ storyline for Season 2 UNTIL the end when you stated that you were imagining (or postulating) about what a second season might involve. The Africa scenario involving J/S meeting there - let me guess - you are a fan of the movie "Out of Africa"? Classic "chick-flick" - just kidding - don't go "Russell Crowe" on me (lol)!
That stated - is Sara pregnant or not, and if, yes who is the father? IF they did meet far away from home, it would be a pretty boring plotline if Jack just said "Hi" and sort of walked away? To attract and keep viewers the story has to be gratuitous and/or salacious, BUT Sara pregnant and having an affair with Jack might be too over the top for ABC (Disney-owned)?
I think he strongest thesis is the CRIME aspect if that could be developed quickly and dynamically with essentially new characters and roles. But why not put Elaine in the mix as the "heir apparent" to the Karsten "throne" with TJ at her side?
Your persistence has me almost convinced that the call-girl hypothesis is NOT valid; BUT, if it were, think of the possibilities for "betrayal" if Sara's clients (in Washington) are rival politicians (Republicans) that she may, or may not, share THEIR political strategies/ plans with Drew? OR she further betrays Drew by leaking HIS party plans to her clients? It would make for an interesting twist; however, viewers would have to acknowledge that Sara is truly flawed and beyond salvage - tough for you accept but I'd be OK with it!
It seems that none of this will happen (or anything) else and WE viewers will just have to plug-in our own ending and sequel - unless some blog from ABC or the director explains the vagaries of the ending and what the future held in store.
Olympics - women's hockey! A great start for Canada against USA! I hope the final gold medal game has those two teams - what a match-up that would be.
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Kwrwolf
10 years ago
Chevy-No no secret intel just a lot of time on my hands between assignments lately and to avoid boredom waiting for a client to show up. That could be very bad haha I wonder if people see me smiling and wonder what I'm thinking about while I wait in a doctors office for my client or in a college classroom?
Saw that movie but laugh out loud that didn't even enter my mind. You're safe for now It would be Drew's baby but being in that hot arid climate does something to the mind and libidio haha! Not saying they would beat the beast with two backs but think of the movie A Walk In the Clouds, another chick flick. A guy in love with a pregnant woman whose husband left her. I think they could show after they return from Africa just how deep their feelings go. What's a plot without angst Sara returns home and Drew confronts her which leads to some not so cherry pie moments and possible miscarriage from stress. ABC could use some push/pull with this triangle to satisfy J/S fans and D/S fans but the end result would be Sara telling whomever that she's in love with...? and this relationship is over.
Elaine probably would be first in line to take over so let's add some family drama in the mix. Have the uncle fight Elaine for power as Bobby fought JR for Ewing Oil. Yeah...now we're getting somewhere. See two minds are better than one so thanks partner!
Sara doesn't have the make up, pardon the pun hee-hee to be a call girl. She's too school girlish and seductive enough imo so scrap that idea. I would like to see if Drew owns up to his word at his stump speech or was it all just for votes? That's why I think the young intern lusting after him is a good storyline to follow and it makes Sara think twice about her affair with Jack and how much it hurt Drew.
unless some blog from ABC or the director explains the vagaries of the ending and what the future held in store.
We can only hope
Yes Canada looks good both men and women. I'll give you that "W" for the women's game against us yesterday. The whistle actually blew so that goal shouldn't have counted(licking my wound) Saturday is the U.S. men's game against Russia. Good 7-1 win for us yesterday against Slovenia
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Chevy4279
10 years ago
Kwrwolf - The scenario with Drew being pursued by a hot, young intern or staffer (female of course) is plausible, but I think we both agree that it would be so out of character for Drew to follow through?
It would make an interesting plot twist IF he did - sort of a 180, but it wouldn't hold viewers to the edge of their seats - a Washington politician having an affair with a staff member - imagine that!?
The other aspect about Sara being jealous or pensive about the THREAT of Drew getting involved with another woman - i.e. her reflecting on how HER affair made Drew feel? Remember a few posts back when I asked you the "question"? Even though you are VERY confident in your relationship just the thought of infidelity made you "sweat" a bit? And not just about how you would feel but "role reversing" and thinking about how hubby would feel?
Herein lies the difference between an honest, faithful woman (you) and Sara (you know what I think of her) - an honest, faithful person DOESN'T need to be faced with an actual threat to a relationship/ marriage - just the thought is enough to evoke strong emotions and that alone should be enough to STOP the momentum of an incipient affair. BUT Sara DIDN'T even consider Drew's feelings or how he would be disrespected and humiliated before, during (and maybe even after?) the affair? My point - Sara shouldn't need to SEE Drew being chased or pursued by someone else - just the thought alone (two-ways) should be enough IF the person does have honesty and integrity.
Awhile back someone posted (maybe you) about the generic vow "for better or worse" and that should be sufficient for Drew to forgive Sara (the "worse" part). I contend that the vow applies to things, events BEYOND someone's control – sickness/ injury, getting old, losing a job/ pension, loss of a child/ loved-one, etc, but not necessarily for strife/ tension caused by an INTENTIONAL decision - Sara's (or any real-life) affair? I know we don't have lawyers to scrutinize and interpret wedding vows (unless a pre-nup is involved) to tell us how/ when the “vow” applies, but IMO a relationship that ends up on the “worse” side of the equation because one spouse CHOSE to cheat and create a mess is NOT justification for unconditional forgiveness based on the “for better or worse” clause.
That stated, I heard a good line that YOU may like. I watch “Criminal Minds”, an FBI show. As your hubby is an FBI agent he (and you) probably don’t watch because subject-matter-experts get frustrated seeing all the technical/ procedural mistakes/ conceptions about their area of expertise (I dislike aviation-related TV shows/ movies because NONE of them are anywhere close to reality; same as doctors dislike watching medical serials because of the inaccuracies). Anyway, the show always has a quote or two from someone famous – one of them: “Forgiveness does not change the past, but it does enlarge the future”. I know it contradicts my para above - I DO try to be fair and forgiving, and I’m still working on it!
Other topic: Olympic Hockey - OUCH! Tough loss for Team USA against Russia – and did you see the smile on Putin’s face? Reminds me of a saying back home: “Grinning like a dog licking *beep* off a thistle”!
Canada is up against Finland on Sunday – can’t wait for the USA and Russia contests!
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Kwrwolf
10 years ago
Chevy-Yes ooc for him but a little temptation can't hurt to see how strong his convictions are. Not saying he has to go all the way but we can't leave a choir boy squeaky clean. A little ash wouldn't hurt and he would be the first D.C. politician that said NO haha. He would you know...be the first D.C. politician to say NO Sara could see that it hurts to be attracted to someone other than your spouse and can cause you to feel hurt and jealousy, something she blindly missed with Drew while she hooked up with Jack.
No one really does take into consideration at the moment do they? I don't know because I'm not a cheater but I'll be honest when one is caught up in the moment I don't think Sara was thinking about the humiliation to Drew or Jack to Elaine. "Wait Sara this is a mistake, I I I just can't do this to Elaine." "Right and I love Drew."
Should it be this way^^? Yes I think so but that's not reality and I think we both know that. It's the after effect that sinks in and the guilt takes over which is what happened to Sara not as much with Jack, at least that's how I perceived each character's actions after in episodes #2 and #3. Jack was acting like a lovesick teenage boy checking his phone every five minutes and seeking out Sara on her job.
I don't think that was me who posted that but vows are important to me and meant to be upheld but we both know vows become broken as rules do for whatever reason. Sara's affair wasn't intentional(she didn't wake up saying I'm so unhappy I think I'll go out and have an affair to get revenge on Drew for making me feel as an accessory these past years) and I know you hate the phrase "it just happened" but episode #2 and #3 showed her struggling with her guilt and she made an attempt to try and reconnect with Drew while feeling unhappy but she FAILED because she's lame and weak. She was an unhappy wife pre Jack McCallister. She's at fault 100% for her affair. Why I agreed with Drew's decision to forgive her because I felt Sara showed remorse, not enough though imo but she did and her affair was the worse in their marriage. The writers missed so much dialogue between D/S and J/S. For fans to have to fill in the blanks during the show and weeks after it ends is just sloppy writing.
You are right he does not watch shows like Criminal Minds. He has watched an episode or two but he watches a lot of the Smithsonian channel and he's got me into it. We just recently watched a biography called The Conspiracy about the killing of Abe Lincoln. Far fetched plots or added falsehoods will lose his attention fast. He's an avid reader and researcher.
Facts just give me the facts baby Testing your movie knowledge here...what movie was that line from?
2 to 1 ot. Go team Canada!!!!!!!
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Chevy4279
10 years ago
Kwrwolf - I agree with your comments, especially about how the writers did not put more time/ emphasis on D/S post-affair, either to have her explain more and hold her to account for her role in the affair, and/or more detail on Drew's failings that made her so unhappy (a BIG Q and salient to the story). You're spot-on - the writing was sloppy with too many unexplained or addressed situations; was it because the writers/ director ran out of energy/ motivation towards the end, OR were they just not good enough to "spin a yarn" and close the loopholes?
I think I said it before, but I'm sure that James Cromwell is not all that proud of being associated with Betrayal and maybe did it only to pay for a new roof on his house or upgrade his furniture? If someone inadvertently omits this show from his resume I don't think he would be too upset or take steps to have it added!
The movie line: "Facts just give me the facts baby". You've got me. My first thought was a show you probably never saw given your tender age - "Dragnet" where Sgt. Joe Friday always said: "Just the facts, Ma'am". But the line is different and I caved and even tried Google, but to no avail!
I think we are the last two hold-outs on the threads - others are probably disappointed/ disgusted with the so-called "ending" or they are/ were happy to write their own ending given the vagaries of the storyline in the last Ep?
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Kwrwolf
10 years ago
Chevy-It would have shed more light on D&S relationship if the writers had included more dialogue, instead we were given a short scene where Drew just asks about when and where her and Jack committed the act. I would have liked to see Drew ask her-"Why Sara? Why couldn't you just come and talk to me? We could have worked on our problems." Why is he settling for "We were happy once." There's more to it Drew. Press her make her admit why she felt was an accessory and what made her so unhappy. Just missed opportunities imo.
The low ratings are certainly an embarrassment for the actors and I don't see Chris Johnson, Wendy Moniz-Grillo or Adam Shapiro(Nate Green)talking about post Betrayal stuff with fans who continue to ask questions. They moved on and so should they. It's not coming back. How and what for? Killing off Karsten was the end note for this series.
The movie line was from Liar Liar with Jim Carey. My husband and I are, well were Jim Carey fans until he made that vulgar and insensitive YouTube clip mocking a dead Charlton Heston plus other vile political comments about Bush 43, John McCain, Sarah Palin and Mitt Romney. I know he's a comedic actor but he wasn't in a movie role when he made those comments. His last two movies were major flops and good for Fox News to bring his act of vulgarity act to the forefront. In the court of public opinion he was washed up so that prompted a public apology from him. I still think he's a great comedic actor, gifted with slapstick humor but as an individual I've lost a lot of respect for him.
*If anyone else reads this please feel free to jump in and add commentary*
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Chevy4279
10 years ago
Kwrwolf - Thanks for the info - I liked "Liar, liar" - a great role for Carey that few others (if any) could match. In general I am very critical of actors/ entertainers, who use their star-power and wealth, which WE tend to admire and endorsed (our fault), to make political comments about issues and people they know little about. Sure, everyone has an opinion, but we need perspective. I thought my generation learned something for the ill-fated 60's Hippie Gen that 20-somethings on DRUGS (i.e. Timothy Leary) are really not qualified to advise and influence the masses?
I remember when Britney Spears was just a teenager and some reporter asked her if she agreed with Desert Storm (Gulf War 1)? HUH?
I was creeped out by Carey's rant about Emma Stone that he posted on the internet. Something weird about a 50-ish man publicly lusting after a 20-something!
And I endorse your invitation to OTHERS (Hello out there!) to weigh-in and comment, either supportive or not, about "our" (Chevy & Kwrwolf) posts. Typically, I lead off a response with a "name" if responding to a specific comment or concept as I find it confusing, at times, when reading other threads amongst multiple responses, exactly WHO and WHAT is being addressed?. Not my intention to exclude anyone, even though I lead-off with a name - so fire away!
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Kwrwolf
10 years ago
Chevy-Agree so just stick to acting because they don't make good politicians. Brittany Spears-yuck. Her level of intelligence doesn't surprise me at all. Bill O'Reilly has this segment in his show called Water's World where this reporter named Jessie Waters goes all over and interviews people on the spot about current events and it's shocking, well SAD that people do not even know specific dates as to when we were liberated from England or who was our first president to who is the current speaker of the house etc...there are some people who stay on top of the news but a majority of Americans are just plain dumb, especially when he goes to the beach towns and interviews college kids. Here's one example of what he asked. He held up a picture of Ronald Reagen and asked who was it? He got answers to "my grandfather" "Adolph Hitler" the Governor of CA, which he was but not the answer he was looking for so the loopy girl got half credit. Sad just sad.
Oh I know his rant creeped me out too.
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