MovieChat Forums > Until Dawn (2015) Discussion > I really feel sorry for Josh now...

I really feel sorry for Josh now...

posted 8 years ago by codebreaker2001
5 replies | jump to latest

I saw this video from Game Theory's YouTube channel, and I'll admit, it makes me feel even more sorry for Josh than I was before. I mean, before, I thought he was just a jerk who was torturing his friends as some sort of grieving process. But seeing this, made me realize that he got the short end of the stick in the end. I'm not sure how much others feel about him or this theory, but to me, it made me feel sorry for him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi4i6e99Z1k

 But this one's eating my popcorn!

[–] loui_b452 8 years ago

Yeah, a lot of people dislike Josh for unfair reasons. But don't feel bad. It's really more of stigma placed on mental illness. So often in horror movie tropes, someone with a mental problem is portrayed as villain and not a victim of his/her own condition. Even when there is some sympathy injected into the story, most people are conditioned to automatically fear/hate the mentally ill.

I've always been a Josh fan. Chris's lines that he hasn't been taking his meds automatically let me know "Yeah, this isn't this guy's fault." On top of that, he lost his sister so even if he weren't mentally ill, I'd still give him a break, y'know?



[–] codebreaker2001 8 years ago

But according to the files we read from the game, Josh was taking his meds. And in some cases taking too much of them. And with Game Theorist's video, that he may have been misdiagnosed by multiple doctor and prescribed the wrong meds, Josh was given the worst hand of fate EVER with the combination of the misdiagnosis, the deaths of his sisters AND possibly his death/becoming a wendigo.

 But this one's eating my popcorn!

[–] loui_b452 8 years ago

I think MatPat was spot-on with that analysis. I got my Bachelor's in Psychology and Master's in Behavior Science and Health Education. While diagnoses have become more accurate than before, there is still a lot of error on the pharmaceutical side, sadly. What meds work for some patients sometimes simply don't work for others or even make the illness FAR worse.

In Josh's case, it's highly likely his doctor misdiagnosed him and mistakenly prescribed meds that made the problem worse. As with many who suffer from mental illness, Josh likely used the mentality of "if this isn't working, why not MORE meds!!" Likewise, as we see in the intro, Josh was a heavy drinker. Common amongst young men his age but also common amongst those who choose to "self-medicate" to deal with their illness (i.e. binge drinking, illegal drug-use, ect)

My personal theory is Josh was medicating with the wrong meds before his sisters' deaths. BUT what was really effective in keeping him in check was his support system (Friends and family) as well as regular therapy sessions. Occasionally, he would drink with friends for recreation and because he believed it was "helping" with his illness. However, after the death of his sisters, he stops using all of these coping mechanisms except the meds. He becomes less responsive in therapy, shuts out his friends and family, but likely drinks and medicates more. Thus, we get the events of Until Dawn, where Josh is a wreck but has moments of clarity when around Chris or Sam (his best friend and crush).



[–] codebreaker2001 8 years ago

I'm personally not in the field of medicine or psychology, but I have a Bachelors in Arts in Creative Writing and a Bachelors in Science in Film. So, I know only about story telling and the visual medium. And I know that when it comes to Larry Fessenden (the man who co-written this game and played as the Flamethrower Guy), he often deals with not just the horror of the situation, but the psychology of the characters in the situation. In his film "Habit", one could argue if Anna was a vampire or not, as there's enough evidence on both sides to make the argument either way. But Fessenden stated, "The important detail is that Sam believes it to be true, and I always wanted to tell a story where the mind turns on itself."

So, I do believe your theory is correct, as Fessenden has also dealt with stories involving the lead characters and their relationships breaking down (in 'Habit', it's Sam and the distancing of his friendships, as well as his ongoing issues with his ex-girlfriend, all in the middle of his inability to grieve for the passing of his father. In "Wendigo", it's about the kid trying to cope with the world around him and during the final act, dealing with the loss of his father. In "The Last Winter", we see a group of people who are close friends slowly fracturing due to the situation they are in, even possibly losing their minds as well). So, in regards to the psychological aspect of the story when it comes to Josh, his alienation of his friends and his guilt of losing his sisters, I believe you're on the mark because of how Fessenden deals with such themes previously.

 But this one's eating my popcorn!

[–] flowerchild-15037 7 years ago

You're not alone. I started to feel really bad for him too. Like you said, I thought he was a jerk at first, but then when I saw him freaking out in the mines, it was really sad.