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Question for Climbers


It seems to me that there isn't really a whole lot of skill involved in climbing Everest today. The clients of these expedition's basically trudge up the mountain using oxygen, and ropes and ladders put in place beforehand. Its certainly not pleasant...its cold and uncomfortable, but a fit person could probably make it to the top without much climbing experience. It's "Everest, the Ride", just like at Disneyland.of course its also dangerous, and people die, but as much of the real danger has been taken care of as possible by Sherpas and expedition leaders.

I watched the documentary "Meru" and saw what real climbers do, how incredibly difficult the sport truly is. When Mallory and Everest climbed Everest, their experience was much closer to real mountain climbing.

Have I offended any climbers out there? Would you like to weigh in?

Et lux perpetua luceat eis

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When Mallory and Everest climbed Everest, their experience was much closer to real mountain climbing.


I think you meant Mallory and Irvine. Their experience (which resulted in the deaths of both) certainly was "real mountain climbing." They had to cut steps in the snow the whole way, haul each other out of crevasses, climb without the aid of modern boots - instead they had old leather hobnailed boots that provided nothing like the grip that crampons provide - and about 11 layers of clothing in a mostly futile endeavor to keep warm. They climbed the North side, which has more areas of technical difficulty than the South (Nepal) side, but lacks the ultra-dangerous Khumbu Icefall.

If you liked Meru, you might also enjoy another film Conrad Anker was involved in, The Wildest Dream. It's a documentary with re-enactments and period photography about Mallory and Irvine's journey, with a modern subplot about Anker and Leo Houlding and their attempt to free-climb the infamous Second Step. It leaves open the question whether Mallory could have made it to the top, but most authorities who have examined the question feel that it is very unlikely although just barely possible. Irvine could not have made it to the summit. At some point the two were separated, and they perished at different points on the mountain.

Theirs was "real mountain climbing," but of a fairly primitive type, given the technology available at the time.

Another compelling film about "real mountain climbing" is Kevin MacDonald's film Touching the Void, the true and gripping story of an ascent of Siula Grande in Peru by Joe Simpson and Simon Yates.

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You're right of course. I wrote that incorrectly...what Mallory and Irvine did WAS real climbing. Thanks for the referral!.

Et lux perpetua luceat eis

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Joe Simpson's book is very worth reading too, if you haven't read it yet.


A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name.

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Depending on which route you take, there isn't much technical skill required today, but it's still a huge undertaking, both in terms of physicality, and time /money.

Fitness helps, but altitude sickness has nothing to do with fitness. The fittest person can be laid low by altitude and the least fit hardly be affected. Also, most people will react to altitude differently on different trips. I've been to high altitude (not Everest) four times and twice the altitude has hardly effected me. On the other two occasions, I struggled with pulmonary oedema.

Everest is also a risky undertaking. There are plenty of corpses up there, and for good reason. Climbing Everest is a tough business, and shouldn't be devalued.

No reputable company will take a novice up Everest. The climber still needs ice axe and crampon experience, and to have been above the 8,000, (into the death zone). Getting the required level of experience to attempt Everest is a tough ask in itself.

However, there are tougher mountains, such as K2. Given the altitude and the size of the challenge, there aren't many of them.


A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name.

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Hi Dodger...I knew you from the film general board (which I quit because of a troll). Nice to hear from you!

I'll find the book you recommended. I read the Krakauer book years ago, so I was very interested in the movie Everest. I was not blown away by it, especially Jake Gyllenhalls portrayal of Scott Fisher...he made him look like an idiot.

I've seen many of the photos of the dead on Everest (Green Boots being the worst...how would you like your corpse to be a "you are here" sign?



Et lux perpetua luceat eis

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Hi Elphie,

I remember you on the FG board and what happened there. I was pleased to see you posted something I could reply to, given that we haven't spoken in a while.

I didn't bother watching Everest. I knew it would probably annoy me.

Hope all is well and no more idiot trolls invade your life.


A signature always reveals a man's character - and sometimes even his name.

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Green boots is the worst????? Ive seen a gruesome as *beep* picture of a corpse laying on its back and you can see the flesh becoming a skeleton type flesh

When in doubt **** off

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There is some truth to your statements. Be in great shape and hope for good weather. I'm not a fan of big expeditions. I believe ongoing light and fast. Messner and Habeler did it in fantastic style. And two years later, Messner soloed Everest ?

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oh yes. And this is what happens to hajj/pilgrimage too. which is sadder because it's supposed to be a religious journey.

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People only want to hear what they want to hear

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[deleted]

When Mallory and Everest climbed Everest, their experience was much closer to real mountain climbing.


Mallory did not reach the top of Everest in 3 attempts. He died trying to find his way on his third attempt. Mallory did not even summit Mount Velan because of altitude sickness. Mallory was brave, like 1000's of other brave people, but that's not an achievment of any kid. Making emotional quotes about Everest or Blanc is not an achievement either. Mallory may have been amongst the first to attempt Everest, but that's because so many climbers don't have money or opportunity.

Mallory is hyped by the British media who loves to make heroes out of losers and legends out of Winners.


Darkness lies an inch ahead

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Mallory did not reach the top of Everest in 3 attempts. He died trying to find his way on his third attempt.


There is no evidence one way or another that Mallory did, or did not, reach the top of Everest. What is clear is that he died on the descent not the ascent. For years, one objection to any suggestion that Mallory could have reached the summit was the difficulty of the Second Step, especially with the primitive gear of those days. But climbers since, without artificial aids, have managed the Second Step, so while Jochem Hemmleb points out that isn't evidence that Mallory could have done it, it does indicate that it was not impossible, as many previously maintained.

Most of those who have investigated all the evidence are cautious in their conclusions, opining that while Mallory's reaching the summit cannot be ruled out, it remains unlikely, given the many difficulties plus the lateness of the day as they were making their summit push.

The three Mallory and Irvine Research Expeditions of 1999, 2001 and 2004, uncovered a great deal of new evidence and clues, though nothing that solves the mystery as yet.

For those interested, these sites are informative:

Jake Norton, who participated in the Mallory and Irvine Research Expeditions, has a fascinating, detailed and very knowledgeable 3-part blog post on what he believes most likely happened to Mallory and Irvine on that fateful day.

http://blog.mountainworldproductions.com/2010/05/what-really-happened-to-george-mallory-andrew-irvine.html(follow links to parts 2 and 3)

Here's an interesting interview with Jochen Hemmleb, whose vast historical and topographical knowledge of the M & I saga is extensive:

http://www.everest1953.co.uk/jochen-hemmleb

Here's an observation he makes that some here may find resonates with their own thoughts:

Another lesson I gained from the 1924 story, which may come as a surprise to some, is that I have come to feel that for me the inspirational figure of this expedition is no longer Mallory, but Edward Norton. In a sense, Mallory was the first “Everest junkie”. He needed the mountain, because he realized what an ascent could mean for his life, for his support of his family, for his career as a writer and lecturer, etc. You can call that “visionary”, for sure. But he made himself dependent on a public that could only see or understand success in terms of reaching the summit. To a certain degree, Mallory became a slave to his own ambition. Norton, on the contrary, approached the mountain differently. His son Hugh recently told me that his father regarded his Everest expeditions as an interesting “sideway” to his main occupation, that of a professional soldier. It amazes me that Norton, with this background, was not only fit enough to reach over 28,000 ft. without oxygen, but remained clear-headed enough to recognize his limits in time and return safely. Norton’s approach to climbing Everest speaks a lot about true independence and freedom, not only in mountaineering.


It may be that in the near future, Sandy Irvine's body may be found, and/or oxygen bottles used by M&I near the summit, which would be concrete evidence of their reaching the top. Until then all we have is informed speculation.

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ElphieDefyingGravity - Thank you recommending Meru - bought the DVD and really enjoyed it.

One of my criticsms of the Everest movie is, that although they did better than most other movie makers, I felt they didn't show sufficient footage of Everest. To me the mountain is a character in the movie as well and I somehow wanted more of it to be shown.

I get that with Meru - I can see the difficulty and beauty of what the alpinists are struggling with and also what draws them.

Will also try and get palisades-1's recommendation, The Wildest Dream.. Thanks Guys

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