MovieChat Forums > Blackhat (2015) Discussion > Is Hathaway such an unbelievable charact...

Is Hathaway such an unbelievable character? A quick comparison.


Just a quick repost of fact checking and comparison to some of the protagonists in other Mann films that are more appreciated by the general public (like "Last of the Mohicans" and "Heat" for instance) to feed the discussion regarding whether Nick Hathaway in "Blackhat" is that much of an unbelievable character (as a hacker of many intellectual and physical talents) and whether Blackhat's take on cyber criminality is bogus or not.


1) "Blackhat" is no more based on fiction than "The Last of the Mohicans" is.
Mohicans is based on a fiction novel by James Fennimore Cooper. Blackhat is based on the 2010 attack on an Iranian nuclear power plant centrifuges by the Stuxnet worm, and on a real 7 foot bodybuilder hacker who did 2 years in jail for cyber crimes (Stephen Watt: http://www.wired.com/2013/04/stephen-watt-stalked-by-past/).


2) Blackhat's take on cyber-terrorism was shown to silicon valley security experts and all agreed to say it was the most realistic depiction of hacking in cinema, even calling it "the best hacking movie ever made".
(see http://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/15/01/17/1723209/silicon-valley-security-experts-give-blackhat-a-thumbs-up-do-you and http://www.wired.com/2015/01/blackhat-the-best-cyber-movie/).


3) Everybody complains that Hathaway in Blackhat is too good with weapons for a hacker. Let's compare things and ratios:

- The shootout in Heat is 3 guys (McCauley, Shiherlis and Cheritto) against at the very least 15 guys with professional training and gear (Vincent's crew of 5 guys in bullet proof vests, plus I count at least 5 patrol cars with 2 cops in each). The opponent ratio here is 1 to 5.

- In The Last of the Mohican's finale, Hawkeye, Chingachgook and Uncas fight against exactly 15 guys. Again a 1 to 5 ratio. At some point Hawkeye even shoots two guys at the same time with two long 18th century fuse muskets (one in each hand!)

- In Blackhat's final shootout Nick Hathaway goes against 4 hired goons and only shoots two of them (kills the other two with a screw driver). Ratio of 1 to 4.

If Heat and Mohicans seemed believable, surely Blackhat qualifies too. Especially considering Hathaway learned his tricks the same way McCauley, Shiherlis and Cheritto did: gladiator academy.


Now let's compare the characters from all three films:

- Natty "Hawkeye" Bumppo from Mohicans:
Is an almost supernaturally good marksman (again, the two muskets thing...).
Is very good at hand-to-hand, knife-to-knife, axe-to-axe (you see where this is going...) combat.
Is in good shape.
Is the child of white parents who grew up among Delaware Indians and was educated by Moravian Christians (how's that for exceptional background?).

- Neil McCauley from Heat:
Has the technical knowledge of a mechanical engineer (that's 4 years of college...).
Is in terrific shape (see the scene where he gets out of bed after sleeping with Eady).
Is an excellent marksman, proficient with both handguns (Weaver stance + Mozambique trick with both Van Zant and Waingro) and assault rifles.
Is very good at hand-to-hand combat (see how he neutralizes a professional police inspector supposed to ensure Waingro's safety).

- Nick Hathaway from Blackhat:
Is an MIT dropout.
Is handsome.
Has good hacking skills.
Is good at hand-to-hand combat, but only fights thugs in a bar with chairs and tables, and at the end one guy (Kassar) who is more accustomed to gun fights and a fat hacker (the very same stereotype mentioned several times on these boards by the way, so the film also includes that world view too in the end and not *all* hackers are fit handsome young men in Blackhat).
Is in terrific shape.
Is at best very average with a gun (improper shooting stance, shoots with one hand, only kills two guys at the end, misses them several times and is shot twice himself).

Hathaway is therefore no more exceptional than McCauley of Hawkeye were (or Frank in Thief, Graham in Manhunter, Ali in the eponymous film, etc. for that matter).


As a side-note:
Although Mohicans was a commercial and critical success in its time, Heat was a different story, but movie goers have short memories and often only shout genius long after it was bold to do so (in the case of Heat, more than 15 years after its release).

Here's an extract of the New York Time's review of Heat in 1995 (full review here: http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9C05E0DD1739F936A25751C1A963958260):

"Three hours is a long time. It's long enough to shape a "Godfather"-caliber crime story, or long enough for an overly polished veneer to wear thin. And as "Heat" progresses, its sensational looks pale beside storytelling weaknesses that expose the more soulless aspects of this cat-and-mouse crime tale. Extraordinary actors, clever settings, a maze of a plot and a screenplay with nearly 70 speaking roles don't change the fact that "Heat" is fundamentally hollow and its characters haven't much to say."

"Mr. Mann does little to improve upon them with an overdose of moody romance."

""Heat" creates a hugely complicated web of relationships, though they only occasionally create the illusion of depth."



For films as complicated and polished as Mann's, a certain amount of time must pass and a certain amount of critical thinking must be undertaken in order to appreciate them for what they really are. This work is also starting to bear fruits for Miami Vice which was largely reviled in 2006 but is now starting to be considered an avant-garde masterpiece 10 years later (see J.B. Thoret's fascinating in-depth analysis here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430357/board/thread/238358971?d=248741016#248741016).

For Blackhat, just wait and see. Mann is the same detail obsessed genius he was 20 years ago and at least the same amount of research as in Thief, Heat or Insider went into Blackhat.

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Nice try, but no.

Heat is the nectar of the gods, Blackhat is NyQuil.

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Interesting point of view: please amplify if you can.

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Oh yes, don't get me wrong, Heat is definitely a great film and one of my favourites.

It is Mann's classical masterpiece (a title it probably vies for with The Insider though).
But Miami Vice is his modern masterpiece (going towards abstraction in both direction and photography as well as characterization) and Blackhat is not too far behind I think.

At any rate, I believe dismissing Blackhat on the sole fact that its main protagonist is unbelievable is unfounded criticism, as per the facts outlined in my OP.
And then it's certainly not at fault for its wonderful wonderful cinematography and editing (albeit in a different genre than Mann's pre-Ali output for sure).

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But, there are times when Nyquil will get it done...

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Try Manhunter - it will wake you up like expresso. It was a forerunner of Silence of the Lambs.

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I agree with the OP.
BLACKHAT is underrated, and probably will have a better reputation later, like most of Mann's movies after their theatrical releases.

http://www.myspace.com/guillaumep
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While I agree with your assessment, I think it's problematic to give credence to the "Plausibles" who comb through every film (or the films they personally dislike) deriding based on realism, plausibility, believability, et al. The totality of the work and artistic ambitions seem to be completely overlooked by the current snarky internet consensus hounds.

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Comparing Hathaway to professional, highly-trained/skilled thieves and someone who has spent his entire life in the wilderness learning to hunt and survive is ridiculous.

Heat has an 86% rating on Rotten Tomatoes(a critical success), and earned $187 million worldwide on an estimated $60 million budget (not a blockbuster, but certainly a financial success). It's hard to find the worldwide numbers on Mohicans, but it appears Heat is the more successful film.

So...this thread is quite a fail overall.

Blackhat is terrible movie. Forgettable in every way: directing, story, characters, villain, the lame romance plot line between two people with zero chemistry.

Blackhat will be forgotten as a minor Mann offering. It's already being forgotten.

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Comparing Hathaway to professional, highly-trained/skilled thieves and someone who has spent his entire life in the wilderness learning to hunt and survive is ridiculous.
That's precisely the point.
Why fret over how Nick Hathaway is an unbelievable character when both Neil McCauley and Natty "Hawkeye" Bumpo are such extraordinary characters themselves that you can't even compare them to him?
And yet no one ever calls them unbelievable.


Heat has an 86% rating on Rotten Tomatoes(a critical success), and earned $187 million worldwide on an estimated $60 million budget (not a blockbuster, but certainly a financial success). It's hard to find the worldwide numbers on Mohicans, but it appears Heat is the more successful film.
Van Gogh never sold a single painting in his lifetime. H.P. Lovecraft was virtually unknown and died in poverty.

Why compare box-office earnings or even popular acclaim to judge a film's artistic merit?
Is your life uninteresting and are you a failure as a human being merely because you're not worth millions of dollars or nobody but your friends, family and co-workers know you? Of course not.

Unless you're a big studio exec, why concern yourself with the money a film makes? Or judge it on this criterion? That's sheep herd mentality.
C'mon, you're smarter than that, friend.

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Great post. Thanks for sharing all that. :)

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The shootout in Heat is 3 guys (McCauley, Shiherlis and Cheritto) against at the very least 15 guys with professional training and gear (Vincent's crew of 5 guys in bullet proof vests, plus I count at least 5 patrol cars with 2 cops in each). The opponent ratio here is 1 to 5.


That's not a good comparison at all. McCauleys crew were firing automatic weapons largely at patrol cars who had nothing like the firepower they had. The only real threat posed to them was from Vincents men, 2 of whom were hit (1 straight away). Throughout the entire shootout Vincent and his men are trying to catch up with McCauleys crew to get good firing positions and are forced to shoot at range. McCauleys crew manages to get off the road before Vincent is able to get a good position.

McCauley also had professional training, having been in the US Marines like Vincent. So its not unreasonable to assume that Chris & Cheritto also had military training.

Also, by the end of the shootout 2 of the 3 guys in McCauleys crew are hit, so it clearly wasnt as easy for them as you make out

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Also, by the end of the shootout 2 of the 3 guys in McCauleys crew are hit, so it clearly wasnt as easy for them as you make out
My point is exactly that it was hard for them. Harder than for Nick Hathaway at the end of Blackhat in fact. Which is precisely why he's not a more extraordinary or less believable character than McCauley or his crew members were.

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The OP wants to show that "Blackhat" has more realism than many people think.

Yes, that's true.

But the flaws of the film are in other areas.

-Chris Hemsworth is simply not a great actor and boring to watch.

-The Chinese girl is hard to understand and she doesn't seem to understand her own lines.

-The shootout between the black woman & the security guy and Kassar's people is not believable:
Why would they drive IN FRONT of people firing automatic weapons and NOT HIDE ?
Nobody would do such a thing.
It's suicide.

-The ending is a little too ridiculous for anyone with a brain: Why would someone with unlimited funds
choose a screwdriver as his favorite weapon, knowing that his enemies have state-of-the-art automatic weapons?
Doesn't make sense.

-The extras at the end behave like Martians. They didn't understand Mann's direction, I guess.

I like a lot about "Blackhat", but the lazy writing, miscasting and some bad choices made it a 6/10.

It's a shame: Could have been very good.

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My point is exactly that it was hard for them. Harder than for Nick Hathaway at the end of Blackhat in fact. Which is precisely why he's not a more extraordinary or less believable character than McCauley or his crew members were.


No, you've missed the point. Even with all the advantage McCauley and his crew had over the police (firepower, military training etc) only one left unscaved. On the flip side we have Hathaway beating down 3 or 4 guys in a restaurant single handed. That is ridiculous. In reality that just would not happen.

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You're comparing a full scale gun fight with a bar brawl here. Not exactly the same discipline innit?

In reality that just would not happen.
Yeah, and in reality there's no music to accompany your every action or that cool slow motion when you walk out of the bank with a gym bag full of money either.

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You're comparing a full scale gun fight with a bar brawl here. Not exactly the same discipline innit?


Irrelevant.

Yeah, and in reality there's no music to accompany your every action or that cool slow motion when you walk out of the bank with a gym bag full of money either.


A complete none point.

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Now you're just projecting.

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No, you just haven't made any decent points to refute what I've said.

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As soon as i saw that Chris Hemsworth, a well built, handsome man with white teeth and great hair plays a hacker, the movies was lost to me, and i LOVE Heat. He wasn't even acting nerdy or obsessive, just a hunk with super hacking skills. And then he shoots guys, ridiculous. Terrible casting and character.

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Almost as worst as castin a blk guy 2 play a hacker

Werd 2 ur mudda, bruddafckka

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Also take into account that during the Heat sequence the gunfight was all unfolding at once. There were bullets flying everywhere and you could see that McCauley, Chris, and Chirito all had some technical training. They were fighting from all sides... and of course there were significant casualties on all sides. It was a believable sequence.

In Blackhat, it was believable because Hathaway was not fighting everyone at once. First, he took out Kassar. Kassar got the initial jump on him, but he won in hand-to-hand. It was probably the least believable killing, but not outside the realm of possibility; just improbable. Then the two gunman arrive and start shooting everything. Hathaway fires his entire magazine to drop these two, also being shot multiple times in the fracas. This one is far more believable (though the fact that the henchmen waited until after Kassar was killed to make their move is not, in fact, very believable, since their entire purpose was to be on the lookout for exactly what ended up happening). Then Sadak comes up from behind and gets the jump on Hathaway, attempting to stab him in the neck. Good thing he planned for that exact thing happening? (sarcasm) Good thing Sadak didn't use a sharper knife?

Anyway, my point is that yes, Hathaway killed 4 men... yes, it took some magic to make it plausible... but it wasn't like he was standing across from 4 men having a shootout. Like any big meal, he took them in 3 courses. Makes it much more manageable. Each battle he had a reasonable chance of winning. We had already seen his fighting skills in the restaurant scene previously. then we see him do three things to prepare for the final fight, each of them helped save his life. 1)he taped magazines to his torso 2)he banded the shiv to his forearm, and 3) he put the thick scarf around his neck.

Actually, I think they did a much worse job of setting him up as a brilliant hacker in this movie. His credentials were shaky at best, and I have a hard time believing that he would have been able to track down Sadak. Sure he wrote the original RAT code, but it took technically superior modifications to engineer it to work as well as Sadak had. Hathaway was in jail for "carding." not exactly a hacker guru... yet he was able to hack the NSA and seemed to know every trick in the book... even though he never finished at MIT and had spent most of his adult life in prison? Certainly not impossible, but Mann didn't spend much time convincing us that he could hack it... he moreso relied on our buying the reverence that everyone around him had for him. The scene in the prison where the riot gear guards took overly aggressive measures to retrieve him from his cell. The fact that they made it such a big deal to commute his 13 year sentence for carding to time served (4 years), when these types of deals are brokered without even breaking a sweat. The fact that his college roommate told us that this job couldn't be done without him, based solely on the fact that he had written the original code... It's all kind of flimsy, but still, from the time the movie starts until the time it finishes, we live in the world the director creates, and in this world Hathaway is one of the best hackers in the world (even though Sadak doesn't rate him).

Basically, the movie is believable, but certainly not one of the strongest stories from Mann, and I wouldn't rate it anywhere near the movies you compare it to, Heat and The Last of the Mohicans.




"We are here to help the Vietnamese, bc inside every *beep* there is an American trying to get out"

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I really enjoyed this movie and I don't understand why people are hooked on this idea that it's "unrealistic." It's a movie.
I also thought there was plenty of chemistry between Hemsworth's Hathaway and Lien. The sound seemed like it was too low but that was my only issue.

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Sound mixing did seem to have a few problems indeed.

Also, Mann seems less and less interested in characterization and plot, which is why his characters are more and more abstract and his films have close to zero psychology (the character are what they do).

Mann's recent films retain just enough elements of "classical" structure to keep some sort of cohesive narrative backbone for Mann to work his exquisite magic on.

Not every viewer is ready for that.

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I don't think its a matter of being unbelievable or not, it's more about character definition;

Hathaway is sold as genius hacker, but as an average guy when it comes to : Guns, Fighting and "Military" Training;

Then, out of nowhere and with no real relevance to story, he is attacked in the restaurant and surprises us with great fighting skills;

Then, by the end of the movie. He is able to get really near a very competent Merc, Said Merc don't realize how suspiciously Hathaway is "holding his wrist", Hathaway is then able to kill the guy from a surrendered position... And manage to shoot and kill 2 (or 3?) other dudes, in the middle of a giant crowd, without hitting a single civilian.
and going back to the Merc(s), lets take into the account that we're talking about people capable of killing 10+ officers, and almost all of the movie protagonists;


If you compare it to Heat, all the main characters (robbers and police) are presented as being experts in what they do, having extensive weapon training. And that's why Waingro is cut from the Robbers team early on, he is not sharp enough for the crew.
More than that, it is shown that they plan and research a lot before hitting the banks. You can see Neil reading about metals.

Action/Adventure movies are about setting rules and keeping us in the edge of our seats because we don't know how the protagonist will be able to solve from a situation; That's why Heat works so well: You know that if Neil is caught, there is no escape from prison.

Drawing a parallel, the end of Blackhat for me sounded as if:
By the end of Heat, Neil is caught, Goes to Jail... but one week later he escapes because it's revealed that Chris character is a master hacker and was able to cut the power to the whole city and open the cells doors.


In short, I really felt that Blackhat should've used better the characters. You could've kept all the shooting for the Security Guy; the politics with Viola; the "inside jobs" with the Chinese Bro/Sis.

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