MovieChat Forums > Above and Beyond (2015) Discussion > Anyone know how they made this?

Anyone know how they made this?


The re-enacted bits look awfully good. They seem to have had access to plausible aircraft, and done some clever CGI to mesh it into a plausible looking historical scene, and I think it did well and worked with the actual archival footage and interviews.

But I can't see anyone discussing where they got the aircraft, how they did it.

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They mention that Czechoslovakia was willing to violate the embargo on aircraft. The Czechs may well have had many Bf-109's at the end of the war because they were overrun by Germany and absorbed into it in 1938.

The re-enacted scenes appear to have been done using a couple of Spanish built HA-1112's. These were Spanish built knock offs of the Bf(Me) 109 built under license during and after World War II. The HA-1112's can be easily recognized by the engine exhausts at the top of the nacelle instead of at the bottom of the nacelle as they are on the Bf 109. This is because there were no Daimler Benz 605 engines available for the HA-1112, so the Spanish fitted them with Rolls Royce Merlin engines, the same kind used on the Spitfire, the Hurricane, and the P-51B through P-51H.


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The Czech messers were airframes matched with Jumo 211 engines; I guess the Czechs didn't have any DBs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avia_S-199







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Good find, nickm2. One of the interviewees said that they mated "bomber engines to fighter airframes" and Jumo 211 engines match that description. They also credit the Czechs with obtaining Spitfires to sell to the Israeli Air Force.

The Israelis have not ceased to buy the best they could get and improve it with ingenious tweaking. They have also developed a robust weapons industry of their own.

The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank.

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Oddly enough wasn't the Jumo 211 fitted on the fw 190 to give us the 'Dora' version of the fighter?

Oh and, I think this particular Messer was not a popular plane-the excessive torque from the engine made it hard to fly. I think it's nickname was 'Mezek/the mule'.





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I don't know about nicknames for the fw 190. However, I see in Wikipedia that the fw 190 D9 model was fitted with a Jumo 213 and it would make sense to give it a nickname like "Dora" based on phonetics. However, the Jumo 213 appears to have been rated at a higher horsepower than the Jumo 211, and the DB 605 was in between them. Of course, horsepower ratings can very significantly for a given engine depending on supercharging, turbocharging, and other variations, as well as with altitude for the horsepower rating. Also, while horsepower and torque generally increase together, they do not have a linear relationship. One can get more torque with less horsepower and vice versa depending on the rpm rating where they peak out and on the length of the engine stroke.

It would also hurt aircraft performance if the engines were fitted to the airframes using shorter or longer mounting frames. A larger engine and heavier engine would move the center-of-gravity forward. Mounting it farther forward relative to the original fitting would exacerbate the problem and make the airplane nose heavy. A lighter engine, or an engine mounted farther aft would make it tail heavy. Either one would make the plane more difficult to fly. It could even make it impossible to take off.

Mounting the wrong propeller to the engine could also affect the torque that is felt by the pilot. The engine is turning the propeller, of course, and so it tries to turn the fuselage of the airplane in the opposite direction. Improper matching of engine, propeller, and air frame can be catastrophic and it makes sense that jumbling parts together under field conditions for a small, high powered fighter aircraft would be dicey.

The more I think about it the scarier it gets. Small wonder that they lost some pilots on their first try at taking off.

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was fitted with a Jumo 213


Ooops!



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