What other tips did the producers give to Cris, Kam, and Lindsey? - Whodunnit? (2013) Discussion

[–] Hikkomi 11 years ago

I wouldn't call that what you are describing a tip.

I would call it some directorial notes.

I bet EVERYONE was told not to follow Don into the kitchen too.

Too sit there....to stand there...to act suprised....and so on...

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[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

I wouldn't call that what you are describing a tip.

I would call it some directorial notes.

I bet EVERYONE was told not to follow Don into the kitchen too.

Too sit there....to stand there...to act suprised....and so on...

The difference is telling everyone not to follow Don into the kitchen only suggests to everyone that Don would be killed but doesn't give anyone any elements of the case. So no one gets any "insider" tips from that.

But telling Cris to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno, who had a Scared card, not only tips off Cris that Geno would be killed but also tips off Cris that Giles' jacket could be an element of the case. And the killer described how Geno took Giles' cell phone out of his jacket when Giles' took off his jacket to do the limbo. So Giles' jacket was indeed an element of the case, and the producers tipped off Cris to that element.

Like I said, Since Ronnie and Melina didn't have access to all locations, it's probable that Ronnie would've been killed even if the producers didn't tip off Cris, Kam, and Lindsey on Giles' jacket. But if the producers tipped off Cris (and thus Kam and Lindsey) on an element of Geno's murder, what other tips might the producers have given to Cris (and thus Kam and Lindsey) on the other murders?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] Hikkomi 11 years ago

Just drop it, that jacket thing wasn't that big and probably nobody not even Cris thought any of it at that moment.

Like I said they are directed to do tons of stuff because they have to play a bit of a role for the plot, even the contestants who are not the killer.

Your just singling out that scene because your still pissed off at Cris for destroying your imaginary sandcastle like we can easily see from your posts in other threads.

Just drop the hatin' on Cris and move on.

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[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

nobody not even Cris thought any of it at that moment.

First, Geno had a Scared card. So the fact that the producers told Cris to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno would raise a red flag right there that Giles' jacket could come into play later on.

Second, even if Cris didn't figure it out at that moment, she most likely would've figured it out from the timeline of events:

1. The producers told Cris to tell Giles to limbo and to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno.

2. Giles' tells Cris and Melina to go to the morgue themselves because he seems to have lost his cell phone.

3. In the morgue, Cris and Melina find Giles' cell phone in Geno's pants when Giles calls his cell phone.

4. Lindsey basically tells Kam and Cris that the killer left a note for Geno to steal Giles' cell phone.

If the killer left a note at the last known whereabouts, then the contents of that note is probably going to be on the quiz (just like the note left on the mirror in Sheri's bathroom). So when and how did Geno stel Giles' cell phone is probably going to be on the quiz.

And Cris has all the information she needs to put it together. The producers told her to tell Giles to do the limbo, which resulted in Giles' giving her his jacket, and then she gave it to Geno. It doesn't take rocket science to deduce that was when Geno stole Giles' cell phone. Thus Cris would know exactly when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone based on the tip the producers gave her. And if Cris told Kam and Lindsey when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone, then she gave them information based on an "insider" tip.

Like I said they are directed to do tons of stuff because they have to play a bit of a role for the plot, even the contestants who are not the killer.

And like I said, directing someone sit there....to stand there...to act suprised doesn't give anyone any elements of the case. So no one gets any "insider" tips from that.

But telling Cris to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno, who had a Scared card, not only tips off Cris that Geno would be killed but also tips off Cris that Giles' jacket could be an element of the case. And the killer described how Geno took Giles' cell phone out of his jacket when Giles' took off his jacket to do the limbo. So Giles' jacket was indeed an element of the case, and the producers tipped off Cris to that element.

Like I said, Since Ronnie and Melina didn't have access to all locations, it's probable that Ronnie would've been killed even if the producers didn't tip off Cris, Kam, and Lindsey on Giles' jacket. But if the producers tipped off Cris (and thus Kam and Lindsey) on an element of Geno's murder, what other tips might the producers have given to Cris (and thus Kam and Lindsey) on the other murders?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] Hikkomi 11 years ago

Just basicly copying that reply from your post on the other thread(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2699226/board/thread/218448509?p=4&d=2 18693096#218693096) which I too already did reply to doesn't make it any more right then in the other thread.

Because of that I don't feel the need to correct you here again just read my reply there:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2699226/board/thread/218448509?p=5&d=2 18697151#218697151

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[–] fimb 11 years ago

After I found out that Cris knew she was the killer from the beginning, I stated that it is advantageous to have Cris on your team. Having the killer on your team doesn't guarantee anyone a spot in the finals but it sure helps a lot. Not only does the killer get tips from the producers such as telling Giles to limbo, but the killer knows he or she is safe, no matter what they score on the quiz.

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

Yes, with hindsight we can say that.

But the players did not know at the time whether it would be harmful or helpful to team up with the killer. For example, nobody knew if the killer would be trying to hurt or mislead their teammates. It's certainly reasonable that someone you think is a serial killer may also be a bad sport.

From interviews, most players thought it would be harmful to team up with the killer.

Kam was the first, and perhaps only player, who decided that teaming with the Killer was not a bad thing. It turns out, it's actually a good thing, as there is no risk of losing or having to change a player on your team.

That was part of his strategy that set him apart and let him win (despite being a pretty mediocre detective!)

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[–] MichaelWilson-2 11 years ago

Of course, Kam thought the killer was Geno for most of the series, then switched to Melina after Geno was offed. It wasn't until the penultimate episode where Melina's "Ace Detective" display made him think it was someone on his team.

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[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

Kam was the first, and perhaps only player, who decided that teaming with the Killer was not a bad thing. It turns out, it's actually a good thing, as there is no risk of losing or having to change a player on your team.

That was part of his strategy that set him apart and let him win (despite being a pretty mediocre detective!)

Wait a minute. Are you saying that Kam recruited Cris into his team in the 2nd epsiode because Kam knew that Cris was the killer?

It looked to me like Kam originally recruited Ulysses and Geno into his team, but dumped Geno because he thought all along that Geno was the killer. Then when Geno was killed, Kam thought Melina was the killer. Then Kam thought Lindsey was the killer.

When did Kam realize that Cris was the killer? Was it when he saw that Melina had been strangled and it was just him, Cris, and Lindsey? Or was it when he and Cris were in the room looking for a final clue? Or was it when they saw Lindsey getting killed on the screen? Or was it when Cris started talking in rhyme and confessed that she was the killer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] Hikkomi 11 years ago

Kam tells in the podcast he didn't suspect Cris, but he wouldn't have kicked her off the team if he would have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34QNCCZoOs

He tried to do the alliance with Ulysses and Geno and told them it doesn't matter if one of them is the killer and said to them he kind of hoped someone of them would be the killer.
Geno was the one who wouldn't want to join the alliance partly because he thought Kam would be the killer and didn't agree it would be a good thing to have the killer in their team.

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[–] theoffice11 10 years ago

So it's agreed that Kam had no idea that Chris was the killer and it was by dumb luck that she ended up on his team. He thought Giles was the killer before he thought Chris was. She should have just killed him and been the winner since she was the best at the game.

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

FYI, that's false memory syndrome at work. Watch the actual Whodunnit episode on hopper or ondemand. Cris has nothing to do with the jacket and it's actually Giles who suggests they limbo.

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[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Hikkomi 11 years ago

CUT TO TIGHT SHOT OF ONLY CRIS, THE CAMERAMAN CLEARLY KNEW SHE WAS GOING TO SPEAK.

First of all it is filmed with multiple cameras so a camera would be all the time on the contestants and the cameraman wouldn't need to know that shes going to speak because the needed parts would be cut together later on.

BUT you are half-correct in that case.
The cameraman knew she would say that but not because it was pre-arranged in advance or scripted to her knowledge.
Cris tells in this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34QNCCZoOs podcast that she (and the others) were asked to limbo but she didn't want to and the producer said something like "fine, but ask giles to limbo".
This short discussion between Giles saying all should limbo and Cris telling Giles wasn't shown.

Hikkomi's comment, following. This short discussion between Giles saying all should limbo and Cris telling Giles wasn't shown.

Hikkomi, how big a doofus are you? I just posted a VERBATIM TRANSCRIPT OF EXACTLY WHAT AIRED. IT WAS ABSOLUTELY SHOWN, AND IF YOU BOTHERED TO CLICK THE LINK THEN FORWARD TO 1:54 LEFT IN THE EPISODE, YOU CAN SEE IT FOR YOURSELF.

Then you can come back and apologize for your error.

I don't have to apologize for anything. The only thing I would have to apologize for is for assuming you have a brain.
You put a transcript here of what was shown in the episode.
And I told you, that my linked podcast video states that there was more between the cuts of that scene.
You can't put something in a transscript what wasn't aired.
And your "TRANSCRIPT OF EXACTLY WHAT AIRED" transscript isn't 100% correct either, you can hear Melinas voice saying something between Giles and the closeup of Cris. I can't exactly make out what, but it sounds something like "we did" what doesnt make much sense but its there and you obviously missed that.

Clearly YOU are the doofus here who can't read.

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

So now that you've watched, you can see I was right.

Cris had NOTHING to do with the jacket. Never asked for it. Never talked about it. Never touched it. And she barely any involvement in the limbo.

Don't take it personally, nobody was questioning you personally. You just misremember based on the podcast where they totally butchered the situation.

You did however make multiple posts claiming that Cris initiated the limbo (false) and the Cris asked Giles for his jacket (false) and Cris gave the jacket to Geno (false).

We were just setting the record straight.

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

You totally changed this post. You originally said some different stuff. In the other thread I told you to actually watch the last 2 minutes of the episode which I guess you now have.

Giles initiates the limbo, and Cris has nothing to do with the jacket.

And even if she did, these director instructions aren't useful for anyone player completing the quiz. The quiz is what determines which player dies.

Every episode every cast member carried out various stage directions. They weren't cheating or giving one player a secret advantage. They were just making it into a story.

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[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

These aren't "tips". They are directorial notes that have no relation to the crime and therefor not "tips" for solving them

No, a directorial note would be something like telling everyone not to follow Don into the kitchen when Don goes to heat up his steak and telling everyone not to go into the kitchen when the hear a loud roar coming from the kitchen. The players may have suspected that Don would be killed in the kitchen, but that wasn't any secret. The crime scene was the kitchen so everyone knew that Don died in the kitchen so that directorial note telling everyone not to follow Don into the kitchen didn't reveal any secrets.

In Geno's case, the producers told Cris to tell Giles to do the limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket. And in the summary, the killer said that Geno stole Giles' cell phone from his jacket when he took off his jacket to do the limbo. So Cris telling Giles to do the limbo was part of the murder and nobody but Cris would've known that.

Cris already knew:

1. The producers told her to tell Giles to limbo so Giles would take off his jacket.

2. Giles tells Cris and Melina to go to the morgue themselves because he seems to have lost his cell phone.

3. In the morgue, Cris and Melina find Giles' cell phone in Geno's pants when Giles calls his cell phone.

4. Lindsey basically tells Kam and Cris that the killer left a note for Geno to steal Giles' cell phone.

Given the 4 events above, it's not a stretch for Cris to deduce that Geno stole Giles' cell phone when Giles took off his jacket after Cris told him to limbo similar to how Melina deduced from other facts that Ronnie wrote a letter in the library and drank some tea. And the 1st event above was a result of the producers tipping off Cris on when Geno had the opportunity to steal Giles' cell phone.

You seem to be relying on Rob Whatshisname's blog, which is exuberant and speculative, but not exactly known for being factual.

It's not a blog. It's a podcast with the final 5, including Cris. Cris herself said that they told her to tell Giles to do the limbo.

she barely any involvement in the limbo.

Wrong. Cris tells Giles to do the limbo. That's when Giles took off his jacket.

Don't take it personally, nobody was questioning you personally. You just misremember based on the podcast where they totally butchered the situation.

Don't take it personally, nobody is questioning you personally. You just either misremember seeing Cris tell Giles to do the limbo or wasn't paying attention when Cris told Giles to do the limbo.

these director instructions aren't useful for anyone player completing the quiz. The quiz is what determines which player dies.

In the summary, the killer described Geno stealing Giles' cell phone from his jacket while Giles was doing the limbo. So most likely that was on the quiz.

Like I said, Ronnie probably would've gotten a Scared card anyway because he had very little information on Geno's murder. But since the producers tipped off Cris on an element of Geno's murder, then what other "insider tips" did the producers give to Cris (and thus Kam and Lindsey) on some of the other murders?

Every episode every cast member carried out various stage directions.

And like I explained, a stage direction such as "Don't follow Don into the kitchen" doesn't give away any secrets. But Cris telling Giles to do the limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket was more than just a stage direction. That gave Geno the opportunity to steal Giles' cell phone and was described in the killer's summary, so that was most likely a secret that was on the quiz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

These aren't "tips". They are directorial notes that have no relation to the crime and therefor not "tips" for solving them

And you keep spreading the falsehood that Cris invited Giles to take his jacket off. Watch the episode, you'll see Cris neither invited Giles to remove his jacket nor did she take it. That was all Geno.

You seem to be relying on Rob Whatshisname's blog, which is exuberant and speculative, but not exactly known for being factual.

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

Those aren't tips to the crime. They're meaningless directorial notes that wouldn't help anyone solve anything.

And you keep saying Cris invited Giles to take off his jacket and she handed it to Geno. Not true. Watch the episode. The jacket is all Geno. You are relying way to much on Robwhatshisname's website, which is fun but far from factual.

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

AH_Fan: "the producers told Cris to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno"

False. The replay evidence proved you wrong there.

AH_Fan: "the producers told Cris to start the limbo"

False. The replay evidence shows Giles initiates the limbo"

AH_Fan: "Who starts the limbo is a crucial clue"

False. It's meaningless.

AH_Fan: "Cris starting the limbo (false) and taking Giles jacket (false) and giving it to Geno (false) are major clues."

False. They don't provide any clues. And even if they did, these events tool place in full view of all the players, thus giving none of them an advantage.

AH_Fan: "Cris was in danger of being killed."

False. She was an actress playing the killer and was immune from being killed.

AH_Fan: "If Kam's team were shrunk, Cris would play on as a team of one."

False. Why would she? Why would everyone else? As the evidence shows, the teams morphed and fluctuated throughout the competition.

AH_Fan: "The producers rigged the game by giving useless non-clues to someone who wasn't playing in hopes these non-clues would be transferred to other players who would be magically inspired to think of things that probably had no bearing on the game."

False. The set was crawling with S&P people. And even if there weren't, the conspiracy theory doesn't make any sense.

I think you should take up writing and hone your skills to someday write an episode of Whodunnit season 15 or something. You're awfully creative about making up stuff up :-)

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[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

AH_Fan: "the producers told Cris to start the limbo"

False. The replay evidence shows Giles initiates the limbo"

True. The replay evidence shows that Cris told Giles to limbo. And Cris admits in the podcast that they told her to tell Giles to limbo.

AH_Fan: "Who starts the limbo is a crucial clue"

Point to the post where I said that.

You can't point to the post because I never said that. Caught you in lie.

AH_Fan: "Cris was in danger of being killed."

Point to the post where I said that.

You can't point to the post because I never said that. Caught you in another lie.

If Kam's team were shrunk, Cris would play on as a team of one

First, point to the post where I said that.

You can't point to the post because I never said that. Caught you in another lie.

Second, since you brought it up, it's most likely true. If Ronnie, Melina, Geno, Dana, or Sasha find the floorboard first, then Kam and Lindsey are killed that night, leaving Cris by herself against Ronnie, Melina, Geno, Dana, and Sasha.

Melina suspected from the beginning that Cris was the killer, so maybe Melina would be willing to share information with Cris since Cris can't be killed if she's the killer.

But Ronnie, Geno, Dana, and Sasha didn't think Cris was the killer. If they didn't think Cris was the killer, why would they share information with Cris since the goal is to do better on the quiz than at least one (or two) other players, and if Cris isn't the killer, then most likely they'll do better than Cris on the quiz.

So if Ronnie, Geno, Dana, and Sasha didn't think Cris was the killer, why would they try to save Cris when Cris' death would allow them to survive and advance to the next round?

AH_Fan: "The producers rigged the game by giving useless non-clues to someone who wasn't playing in hopes these non-clues would be transferred to other players who would be magically inspired to think of things that probably had no bearing on the game."

Point to the post where I said that.

You can't point to the post because I never said that. Caught you in another lie.

And what's going on with all those posts I see from several posters about you being a troll? What's up with that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

False. Check the episode. Giles starts the limbo, not Cris. Cris does not take his jacket. Cris doesn't ask for his jacket. Cris doesn't mention the jacket. Cris doesn't give him the jacket back. Everything that happened with the limbo and the jacket was in full view of all the players, meaning nobody had unfair advantage.

Would the other team have frozen Cris out as a single player? We have video evidence across 3 episodes that they were totally unwilling to play such an isolation game. So, no.

I've abbreviated your lengthy conspiracy theory dissertations down to the most repetitious points. If I missed any, let us know and I'll boil it down to one concise sentence.

I have nothing personal against you, that's why I'm not insulting or calling names or making any outrageous accusation (like how you are calling me a liar when I haven't lied).

I'm just pointing out the dubious nature of your conspiracy theory.

Let me help you though. Why don't you change your theory a bit and shorten it but saying:

1) Did the producers do anything to protect Cris?
2) If so, did any players benefit from that?

These would be somewhat reasonable questions. In your previous theories you've undermined yourself by irrevocably tying them to stuff that was demonstrably false, like your Cris/Jacket or Cris/Limbo theories. When your thesis rests on a false premise, you can't get any logical traction.

I still think the answers will be:
1) No
2) Not applicable

but at least those questions would be the basis for a rational discussion.

Zuiker was fanatically involved in this, and even he didn't know Cris was the killer. He's been outspoken, and while I don't believe all the words he says, his demeanor and behavior are imminently readable.

It's clear both he and his team barely knew what would happen on a given day, and they were in react mode through most of the shooting schedule.

They were truly scrambling with a format and show that was all new. It defies belief that they could be struggling from hour to hour, yet they somehow had omniscient ability to predict 30 moves into the future.

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[–] Hikkomi 11 years ago

Yes Giles starts the overall limbo by saying that all should limbo and AFTER THAT Cris tells Giles he should (start).

But I don't think "Mr. Swiss Cheese Brain" aka "AH_fan" will get that difference.

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[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

Yes Giles starts the overall limbo by saying that all should limbo and AFTER THAT Cris tells Giles he should (start).

But I don't think "Mr. Swiss Cheese Brain" aka "AH_fan" will get that difference.

Giles doesn't say "I'M going to do the limbo" or "WE should do the limbo".

Giles says "I think YOU all should to the limbo". Meaning that the players should do the limbo while Giles and the maids watch and (more importantly) Giles keeps his jacket on.

Cris says to Giles "I think YOU should do the limbo". Meaning that Giles should take off his jacket and do the limbo.

So it was Cris who told Giles to do the limbo, which led to Giles taking off his jacket so that Geno could steal Giles' cell phone, as instructed by the note left by the killer.

Hikkomi is too stupid to get that difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

Check the episode. Giles starts the limbo, not Cris

Check the episode. Giles takes off his jacket and starts the limbo AFTER Cris tells Giles to limbo.

I have nothing personal against you, that's why I'm not insulting or calling names or making any outrageous accusation (like how you are calling me a liar when I haven't lied).

Your previous post had several statements which you put inside quotation marks and attributed those quotes to me. I told you to point to the post where I said those quotes. You didn't.

That's because I never said any of those quotes that you attributed to me. And since I never said any of those quotes that you attributed to me, then you clearly lied. People who lie are liars.

So what part of what I just explained to you isn't true?

As for the part about you being a troll, I didn't call you a troll. I mentioned some posts that I've seen from several other users who called you a troll and was just asking what was up with that.

Zuiker was fanatically involved in this

Zuiker didn't know who the killer was. But Zuiker wasn't the only executive producer. Cris Abrego was also an executive producer and Cris Abrego did confirm that he knew all along who the killer was.

while I don't believe all the words he says

And that's my point. Even you admit that Zuiker hasn't been 100% truthful and that there has been some deception on Zuiker's part.

But you seem to cherry pick when Zuiker is telling the truth and when Zuiker isn't. My point is that if Zuiker wasn't 100% truthful on some things, then there's no guarantee that Zuiker was 100% truthful on all the other things. So let's look at the floorboard riddle again:

Worst-case scenario for the producers:
Ronnie, Melina, Geno, Dana, or Sasha find the floorboard first
Kam and Lindsey are killed, it's Ronnie, Melina, Geno, Dana, and Sasha vs Cris
Cris can't be killed so Sasha is killed next
Then Dana is killed
Then Geno is killed
Despite being outnumbered 1 vs 5; Cris somehow miraculously survives each episode, so everyone knows that Cris is definitely the killer

Best-case scenario for the producers:
Cris, Kam, or Lindsey find the floorboard first
Dana and Sasha are killed, it's 3 vs 3

Now if Zuiker had been 100% truthful, then we could go with our original assumption that the producers didn't give any "insider" help to Cris and that it was just luck that the producers got their best-case scenario.

But since Zuiker hadn't been 100% truthful, then it's reasonable to conclude that Zuiker might not be 100% truthful on that either and it's reasonable to conclude that the producers got their best-case scenario not because of luck but because they gave some "insider" help to Cris (and thus to Kam and Lindsey).

they somehow had omniscient ability to predict 30 moves into the future.

Well, let's see.

The producers had the foresight to put a steamer in Sheri's bathroom. Geno uses the steamer to fog the mirror to read the note left by the killer.

The producers had the foresight to put the stove mat and the trap door where the mountain lion was in place before they filmed that episode.

The producers had the foresight to put up a sign by Ulysses body indicating which snake and which flower was poisonous and non-poisonous. Geno and Kam found the snake in Ulysses' saddle bag. And Cris and Ronnie found the poisonous oleander in the stables.

The producers had the foresight to tell Cris to tell Giles to limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket, giving Geno an opportunity to steal Giles' cell phone from his jacket.

And even though Lindsey didn't find them, the producers had the foresight to put a camera on one of the monkey statues to film Ronnie writing the letter and had the foresight to put a book of ricin toxins on the shelf halfway out from the other books as a clue that Ronnie's tea was poisoned.

Seems like the producers had plenty of foresight to make sure that the clues were in the right location for the murder before they filmed the episode.

Also, it doesn't have to be 30 moves into the future. When filming the episode for Sheri's murder, they don't need to plan out how Ronnie would be killed in episode #8. They only need to plan out how Sheri was killed and also plan out how Dontae would be killed at the end of the episode.

And since it doesn't have to be 30 moves into the future, then all it takes is putting in an extra clue or taking out a clue at the right moment to give Cris some "insider" help to guarantee that she wouldn't be exposed as the killer before the final episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

Your posts are walls of text. I've summarized your conspiracy theory into readable sentences. You don't have to thank me for the assistance, but at least don't bite the hand that's helping you.

Giles initiates the limbo. And FYI, that whole scene was staged. Yup. Everybody was in on it. Do you seriously believe that if Giles didn't do the limbo and the players decided to play poker instead, that they would just wrap up production and say "OK everyone, come back in 3 days after we write a new episode!"

The jacket. Cris doesn't touch the jacket. Cris doesn't ask for the jacket. Cris doesn't give it to Geno. Cris doesn't take it from Geno. Cris doesn't say "Hey everybody, let's play jacketless limbo." Cris doesn't use ASL to tell Giles to disrobe. Cris doesn't telepathically communicate with Giles.

But even if she did, the jacket is meaningless to the quiz and the game.

And even if the jacket weren't meaningless, your phantom clue transpired in front of all the players. That's right. All of them. In simple terms, that means EVERYONE got the quote-unquote advantage of it.

As for the troll posting, it's not multiple people. It's one obsessive freak who changes his user name 20 times a day.

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[–] The_Only_Sane_One_Here 11 years ago

Actually she did take his jacket and gave it to Geno. She literally said: "Giles you should limbo!"

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[–] The_Only_Sane_One_Here 11 years ago

Never mind. She DID initate the limbo but didn't take the jacket.

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

Never mind. Giles initiated the limbo.

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[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

Giles initiated the limbo.

Why do you keep trying to distort the facts. Saying that Giles initiated the limbo is like saying that Sheri decided on her own to go downstairs to look at the fish tank.

Sheri went downstairs to the fish tank because she saw the note that the killer left on her mirror. The note left for Sheri was a key element of the case and was described in the killer's summary. If you leave that part out, you would've had a lower score on the quiz.

Similarly, Giles initiated the limbo AFTER Cris told Giles to limbo. And Cris told Giles to limbo because the producers told Cris to tell Giles to limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket, giving Geno an opportunity to steal Giles' cell phone. That was a key element of the case and was described in the killer's summary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] Schlacko 11 years ago

So... should I limbo?

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[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

She DID initate the limbo

That's correct. Cris told Giles to limbo.

Neerood keeps leaving that important part out and insisting the Giles initiated the limbo by himself. But saying that Giles initiated the limbo is like saying that Sheri decided on her own to go downstairs to look at the fish tank.

Sheri went downstairs to the fish tank because she saw the note that the killer left on her mirror. The note left for Sheri was a key element of the case and was described in the killer's summary. So anyone leaving that part out would've had a lower score on the quiz.

Similarly, Giles initiated the limbo AFTER Cris told Giles to limbo. And Cris told Giles to limbo because the producers told Cris to tell Giles to limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket, giving Geno an opportunity to steal Giles' cell phone. That was a key element of the case and was described in the killer's summary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

I said "Giles initiated the limbo."

That's factual.

You keep saying Cris initiated the limbo after someone else initiated it. That's not what what initiated means.

Besides your whole conspiracy theory only makes sense if this is real time theater where they can't interrupt filming or do multiple takes, like Saturday Night Live or something.

As this show is wall-to-wall reshoots, pickups, inserts, and coverages, we know that's not the case. We also know that from start to finish all players took direction and acted.

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[–] AH_Fan 11 years ago

I said "Giles initiated the limbo."

That's factual.

Actually, it isn't. The fact is Giles did the limbo AFTER Cris told him to. What you said "Giles initated the limbo" is a half-truth that's stretching the facts since Giles wouldn't have done the limbo if Cris hadn't told him to.

You keep saying Cris initiated the limbo after someone else initiated it.

No, I didn't say Cris initiated the limbo. I said Cris told Giles to limbo. That's an indisputable fact.

You keep leaving that last part out. It would be like saying Sheri decided to leave her room and go downstairs to the fish tank.

Yes, Sheri decided to do that. But Sheri decided to do that because the killer left a note on Sheri's mirror telling her to do that. Sheri wouldn't have left her room and gone down to the fish tank if the killer hadn't told her to. So that's an important part of it.

Similarly, Giles did the limbo because Cris told Giles to do the limbo. Giles wouldn't have done the limbo if Cris hadn't told him to. So that's a very important part of it.

When you try to distort the truth by leaving out an important part and try to pass off a half-truth as the truth, that's a clear sign that you're afraid to admit to full facts and truth.

from start to finish all players took direction and acted

You don't seem to understand the difference between giving stage directions and giving "insider" help. So I'll have to explain it to you again.

When the producers tell the contestants to not follow Don into the kitchen, that's just a stage direction. There are no secrets given away by that stage direction. None of the contestants get any hints on any elements of the case by being told not to follow Don into the kitchen.

When the producers tell Cris to tell Giles to limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket (which gave Geno a chance to steal Giles' cell phone from his jacket) AND the killer describes in the summary later when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone, that's more than just a stage direction. That's an "insider" hint on an element of the case.

It would be like when Cris went into the house to look for the murder weapon, if the producers told Cris "Look at the floorboards", that's not just a stage direction. That's an "insider" hint on an element of the case.

And like I said, you admitted yourself that Zuiker wasn't 100% truthful and that there was some deception from Zuiker. So if Zuiker wasn't 100% truthful, then it's very reasonable to conclude that Zuiker might not have been 100% truthful about not giving any "insider" help (such as "Look at the floorboards") to Cris on some of the other murders.

As for the troll posting, it's not multiple people. It's one obsessive freak who changes his user name 20 times a day.

But even if it's just one obsessive freak and not multiple people as you claim, I still don't understand why this one user is calling you out specifically. The posts say "Is Neerood also considered a troll on this board too? He is on other boards." I haven't read any of your posts on other boards (and I'm not going to go through your posting history) so I don't know if it's true or not, but why are all those posts calling you out specifically? What's up with that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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[–] neerood 11 years ago

AH_Fan, the conspiracy you describe is a heinous offense mixed with an improbable and miniscule benefit.

Why would the producers risk blowing their financial bond and losing their commitment from ABC just to tell Cris something that's at least 2 steps removed from the crime, something that all the other players could and did witness?

How does it give Cris an advantage when everyone else saw it?

The parallel scenario is a heist where the criminal storms into the bank with guns and grenades, and then demands the banker give him some investment advice, based on the hopes the robber can get some slow but long term stock gains. The risk is immense, with gains being nil or indirect at best.

In the secret meetings you allege must have taken place, why would they waste the opportunity telling Cris about meaningless stuff like jackets and limbo dances, when they could simply just tell her "PSSSST, guess what, you shot Geno in his gut with a 9 mm, don't forget to tell Kam!"

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