MovieChat Forums > Whodunnit? (2013) Discussion > What are the chances for renual?

What are the chances for renual?


Just wondering if you guys think this will come back. I love this cheesy show!

When does abc let everyone know about the summer renuals?

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Zero chance.

Outside of Wipeout, ABC has had a lot of trouble with summer shows.

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renewal..

sheesh..

i bet it will comeback cos the ratings aren't that bad...

abc have cancelled shows with far less and more ratings than this..

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[deleted]

i bet it will comeback cos the ratings aren't that bad...


Not sure where you're getting your info, but the ratings have been awful. With the exception of the last episode. this show has come in last in it's time slot amongst the other major networks every week.

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someone said the ratings have improved.

word of mouth works.

if they are unsure about their new projects or a similar show using similar 'plot/synopsis' best to keep this going a bit longer to see peoples thoughts.

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I've read this show takes $750,000 per episode to produce. That's high for a reality (or reality fiction) show, and I think that would be more of a hurdle to overcome than the ratings.

The ratings, at 1.1, might be just passable enough. As Milo said, if they can generate enough good word of mouth, there's a sliver of hope for a 2nd season.

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[deleted]

Check out Tvbythenumbers.com for the weekly rating numbers...

They're honestly not that good but I think they're passable.

ABC did allow "I Survived a Japanese Game Show" to go on for 2 seasons so I'd assume they'd let this show go on the same.

I do think this show is in dire need of a format change if it does return...

It's crazy how the contestants already found a way to monopolize the game in only its 1st season.

There needs to be more curveballs and shake-ups so the same Alliance Vs Alliance doesn't occur again.

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[deleted]

Ok.. so one more time and this time, do pay attention:

High chances of renewal. Everyone is talking about the show and making speculations about it. Plus, ABC is in desperate needs a summer filler. Logically speaking, 1+1 = 2


People are giving their opinion. There is no need to be rude. You keep saying that "everyone" is talking about this show. Who is this "everyone" you speak of? I ask because "everyone" I know has never even heard of this show.

You may want to read this article. Chances for renewal are slim.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/shows-trouble-kill-whodunnit-163200202.html

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[deleted]

You have a serious problem. Someone doesn't agree with you and you resort to name calling. The article doesn't agree with what you're saying, so it's ridiculous. I'm going to assume you are very young, because you certainly don't act like an adult. If you are an adult, it might be time to grow up an act like one. I'm done with you. Life's too short to waste on people like you.

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[deleted]

People can be so funny and sad on the internet...more so sad.

I think it may come back. I mean some people think given there's a second book it will return, but I wouldn't make that a sole reason for it to return. I would like for there to be a second one, but I'm honestly not sure.I think it could go either way

Girl#1: We're dead if we don't do something.
Girl#2: Something's already dead. Your ends.

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[deleted]

I'm flagging this guy...Dude has got some problems.

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Don't bother--Root is the resident troll on the Whodunnit? boards. Just click the 'Flag' button and then click 'Ignore this user.' It'll make your life better, I promise.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

[deleted]

Hope they have more seasons. This was definitely the guilty pleasure of the summer and they were lucky to get a great cast overall. Dana and Geno were my favorites, and Melina was impressive towards the end. Wouldn't mind seeing more of everyone in the future sans Kam.

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The more important question is "how can I get on the season 2 cast?"

Seriously, I would be great. I knew Kam would win but I did guess the killer to a reasonable degree. I mean I thought Linsey was just faking being that annoying to throw folks off.

I did know the killer would be a hot woman though.

==================================================
http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel120501.shtml

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[deleted]

Hey cheerbearsmiles, You are absolutely right about the resident troll. I guess I missed a few of his name changes. All I remember was "Piano_Lady"! Anyway thanks for your support and be prepared for one of his many sock accounts to berate "Eddyfitzboy". Not my name of course but since he cuts/pastes his replies, he'll make the same mistake that he's always made.

Here, I'll help him out: It's Eddysfitzboy... Got IT???





A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

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Getting this thread back on track-- the finale posted a 1.4 rating, the highest of this season. It also won its timeslot this week. This is Whodunnit's strongest case for renewal yet.

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You're right, about the thread I mean, but I don't think the show will be renewed. I'm sure it won it's slot but ABC has a serious problem with success. I doubt they will renew the show but if they do, they will put it in a time slot that will ensure its demise.

That's my $0.02 worth.



A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

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Okay, you pay attention:

Just because everyone is talking about it and ABC needs summer filler doesn't equal a renewal. All it comes down to is the ratings. Everyone in the country could be talking about it, but if only a small number of viewers actually tune in to the show, then that's pointless.

Networks get pitches for new shows ALL THE TIME. So it's easy for ABC to order another series to air next summer.

I'm not saying the show won't get renewed, I'm just saying that the reasons you've listed are very poor reasons and don't make any sense.

So don't tell us to pay attention to you since you clearly don't understand how renewals work.

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> It's crazy how the contestants already found a way to monopolize the game in only its 1st season.

The producers have said that they expected that some people would team up and monopolize some information. I guess that just part of the game.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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I was thinking how it would be neat if they would have the contestants draw cards or something to determine where they would investigate. This would take away some of their control and could possibly require alliances to be either broken or slow their forming.

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> This would take away some of their control and could possibly require alliances to be either broken or slow their forming.

I think the show is fundamentally flawed in that it requires you to rely on other people to get 2/3 of your information and also puts a premium on lying to other people and not giving up your third of the information.

Somehow the game has to be shifted to the point where you can solve things all by yourself and alliances become redundant.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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I think the show is fundamentally flawed in that it requires you to rely on other people to get 2/3 of your information and also puts a premium on lying to other people and not giving up your third of the information.

Somehow the game has to be shifted to the point where you can solve things all by yourself and alliances become redundant.


There's nothing flawed with relying on other people to get information. Even real-life detectives often have to rely on informants.

Also, by having people share information, they have to figure out if someone is telling the truth or lying. That's also something that real-life detectives have to do. They have to get a read on a witness or suspect and determine if the witness or suspect is reliable or is lying.

Now there are other fundamental flaws that should be fixed though:

1. The producers should tell the killer not to solve any riddles. I'm aware that Cris wasn't told any of the details. But the fact remains that Cris was paid by the producers to be the killer so that makes Cris an agent of the producers. Any actions taken by Cris that either help or sabatoge any of the other players can be interpreted as actions taken on behalf of the producers.

Melina, Ronnie, Geno, Dana, and Sasha all had to solve the riddles themselves to save themselves. But Kam, Lindsey, and Ulysses didn't have to solve the riddles themselves to save themselves because Cris, who was basically an agent of the producers, solved the riddles and saved them.

And it wasn't just any 2 riddles that Cris solved. It was arguably the 2 most important riddles of the game. It was 5 vs 3. Since 2 players were scheduled to die that night, it would be either 3 vs 3 or 5 vs 1 (with the 1 being Cris). Then it was 3 (Melina, Ronnie, and Geno) vs 3 (Cris, Kam, and Lindsey) with the losing team no longer having access to all locations. By solving those 2 riddles, Cris (an agent of the producers) had a huge part in helping Kam and Lindsey make it to the finals.

2. Include the accusations in the quiz results. Giles kept saying that in the end, one guest will "unmask the killer and walk away with $250,000". Melina and Lindsey accused Cris from the beginning but Kam wins even though he never thought Cris was the killer, not even when it was down to just him, Cris, and Lindsey.

When Giles announces the player who made the most impressive case statement, Giles could give that player a clue to the identity of the killer. The player could choose to share the clue with whomever they wanted or not share the clue. The player can even give out false information to throw other players off.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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> There's nothing flawed with relying on other people to get information. Even real-life detectives often have to rely on informants.

In real life, that's true. In real life, most people work together to achieve a common goal. A few people, for personal reasons, will lie and the group will be misled. But, the majority of information will be correct and the right answer will usually be arrived at.

But this is a individual game where every scrap of information that you give out helps another person finish better than you. Kam won this game primarily because he stood firm and refused to give out any information to anyone except his two alliance-mates.

> Also, by having people share information, they have to figure out if someone is telling the truth or lying. That's also something that real-life detectives have to do.

But, real-life detectives have an unlimited amount of time and resources to investigate a crime. Plus, they have a team of detectives who are all working together and are assumed to be honest. One lone suspect that is lying is quickly isolated.

That can't really happen in a game like this. You don't have a team of trusted workers to help you. At best you have one or two people that you have no choice but to trust ... mostly. And if you take too long to figure something out, someone else grabs the prize.

> But the fact remains that Cris was paid by the producers to be the killer so that makes Cris an agent of the producers.

Correct. My solution to that is to just convert the game to the standard Hollywood movie plot and make the killer a little-seen person that is not one of the players (e.g., Jigsaw in Saw). He's got them all trapped in the mansion and he kills off the weakest player every week.

Then there is no conflict of interest between a secret player and the producers and the other players. They'd be more likely to work as a team.

In fact, maybe that's a better premise. Make the quiz a bigger part of the game and say that anyone scoring below 75% gets a scared card. If everyone scores above 75%, no one is killed the next week (but two might be killed the next week). Maybe a random pizza delivery boy is killed instead.

That would encourage the players to actually work together.

> Kam, Lindsey, and Ulysses didn't have to solve the riddles themselves to save themselves because Cris, who was basically an agent of the producers, solved the riddles and saved them.

Yup. Big flaw. I'd like to hear what Cris was told about how she was supposed to interact with the other players.

On the other hand, it's been said that Cris knew none of the details of each murder so her clue-solving ability was no better or worse than any of the other players. In fact, it might have been worse and she might have been a disadvantage to Kam since she knew that she didn't have to try very hard.

> When Giles announces the player who made the most impressive case statement, Giles could give that player a clue to the identity of the killer.

Eh. I'm not sure that's such a great idea. It would be easy for one alliance to dominate one week and then gain a advantage for next week and dominate again.

I'm thinking that being the winner from one week gets you immunity for the next week and that's all. That player won't try as hard the next week and may hurt his team because of it.

Or maybe it gives you a 30-second head start on the final week's challenge. If you are killed before the final week, oops! Too bad.

In any case, as its currently designed, the identity of the killer is a useless piece of information. I'd bet that that question isn't even on the weekly quiz. The show should have been called "Howdunnit?" instead of "Whodunnit?" since the "who" part doesn't matter.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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her clue-solving ability was no better or worse than any of the other players. In fact, it might have been worse


But regardless of Cris' ability to solve the riddles, the fact is she did solve 2 riddles at probably the 2 most important moments in the game. And by solving those 2 riddles, she gave enough information to Kam and Lindsey to guarantee that they would be Spared and she withheld information from Melina, Ronnie, Geno, Dana, and Sasha, which led to their eliminations.

she might have been a disadvantage to Kam


I tried explaining to another poster on another thread. Even if Cris were the worse crime-solver ever, that still isn't a disadvantage to Kam and Lindsey because that still doesn't prevent Kam and Lindsey from solving the riddles themselves, which is what Ronnie, Geno, Melina, Dana, and Sasha had to do to stay alive.

So there really was no disadvantage for Kam and Lindsey. But since Cris was so good at solving riddles, there was a huge advantage for Kam and Lindsey.

I'm not sure that's such a great idea. It would be easy for one alliance to dominate one week and then gain a advantage for next week and dominate again.


I don't see how giving the most impressive player a clue to the killer's identity helps one team dominate the next week's riddle. The clue would just be a hint on the identity of the killer, something that might narrow down the list of suspects. It doesn't even have to be a hint about the killer. It could be a hint that would exclude someone from being the killer.

And the clue wouldn't have anything to do with the next murder or the next riddle. So the team that gets the clue doesn't have any extra advantage for the next murder or the next riddle.

It could even make it more interesting because if one team has the most impressive player the 1st night and gets the 1st clue of the killer's identity and then the other team has the most impressive player the 2nd night and gets the 2nd clue of the killer's identity, both teams have 2 separate clues of the killer's identity. So each team would only have partial information and unless team members flipped, neither team would have the full information.

I'd bet that that question isn't even on the weekly quiz.


Correct. The quizzes don't ask who the killer is. As it's currently designed, the accusations are purely for the TV audience and don't have any impact on who is killed.

But it's just bad to have 2 players (Melina and Lindsey) accuse the correct suspect every week, but the winner never accused the correct suspect. Even when it was down to just Kam, Cris, and Lindsey, Kam had a 50% chance of getting it correct but he still thought Lindsey was the killer. And judging by Kam's reaction, even when they saw Lindsey shot with an arrow, I'm still not sure if Kam realized that Cris was actually the killer until Cris confessed.

The show should have been called "Howdunnit?" instead of "Whodunnit?" since the "who" part doesn't matter.


The show needs to be "Whodunnit?" because "Whodunnit?' will draw more interest than "Howdunnit?". Viewers are going to guess and debate all season long who the killer is. They need to have a killer at the end to give a payoff to the viewers watching the show each week and debating who the killer is.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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> But regardless of Cris' ability to solve the riddles, the fact is she did solve 2 riddles at probably the 2 most important moments in the game. And by solving those 2 riddles, she gave enough information to Kam and Lindsey

But, my point is, if you believe the producers, she was not given any details about the crime, so she solved those two all on her own, which she would have done whether or not she was designated as the killer. So, if she truly had no knowledge of the clues and crime, then it is absolutely fair for her to share her insights with her team.

Of course, the fact that it was just the right clue at the perfect moment leads the skeptic in me to think that she had some producer help. If so, that becomes unfair in favor of her teammates.

> Even if Cris were the worse crime-solver ever, that still isn't a disadvantage to Kam and Lindsey because that still doesn't prevent Kam and Lindsey from solving the riddles themselves,

That's true. But, consider the point where the teams were three and three. If her team sent her to the morgue, for example, and she was just so bored that she didn't pay much attention, her teammates would have the disadvantage that the other team wouldn't.

> But since Cris was so good at solving riddles, there was a huge advantage for Kam and Lindsey.

Yes it was. But, Cris would have helped Kam and Lindsey equally as much as if she wasn't the killer. In other words, Kam and Lindsey got no advantage as a direct result of Cris being the killer.

> I don't see how giving the most impressive player a clue to the killer's identity helps one team dominate the next week's riddle.

True. But, there is no point to giving them such a clue at all since the end game doesn't involve knowing the killer's identity either.

> The show needs to be "Whodunnit?" because "Whodunnit?' will draw more interest than "Howdunnit?".

Oh, I understand why they picked the name. "Whodunnit" is already a popular meme in murder-mystery lore. I am just pointing out that the title is grossly misleading since the answer to the titular question is irrelevant to every aspect of the game.

> Viewers are going to guess and debate all season long who the killer is. They need to have a killer at the end to give a payoff to the viewers watching the show each week and debating who the killer is.

Well, that's hard to deny that people have been going ga-ga over the identity of the killer, even when it is pointed out to them that it doesn't matter at all and the "clues" you see are just random coincidences.

Yet, many TV shows and movies do just fine when the identity of the bad guy is known to the audience all along. It's still fun to play along with the hero to solve the mysteries.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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Yet, many TV shows and movies do just fine when the identity of the bad guy is known to the audience all along. It's still fun to play along with the hero to solve the mysteries.


Ala Columbo! I still like watching the old re-runs.



A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

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if you believe the producers, she was not given any details about the crime, so she solved those two all on her own, which she would have done whether or not she was designated as the killer. So, if she truly had no knowledge of the clues and crime, then it is absolutely fair for her to share her insights with her team.


It appears that the producers did indeed tip off Cris. Cris says in this podcast that the producers told her to tell Giles to do the limbo and to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno: http://robhasawebsite.com/whodunnit-reunion-final-5-interview-kam-cris -lindsey-melina-ronnie/

Cris knew that Geno had a Scared card. Since the producers told Cris to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno, that probably tipped off Cris that not only would Geno be killed but also Giles' jacket would be part of the case and thus probably part of the quiz. Cris might have even watched Geno closely after she gave Geno the jacket and saw Geno take Giles' cell phone out of the jacket. If Cris gave that information to Kam and Lindsey, then basically the producers tipped off Kam and Lindsey on something that could've been on the quiz.

Since Ronnie and Melina didn't have access to all locations, it's probable that Ronnie would've been killed even if the producers didn't tip off Cris, Kam, and Lindsey on Giles' jacket. But if the producers tipped off Cris (and thus Kam and Lindsey) on Geno's murder, what other tips might the producers have given to Cris (and thus Kam and Lindsey) on the other murders?

Kam and Lindsey got no advantage as a direct result of Cris being the killer.


First, as I pointed out above, the producers may have tipped off Cris that Geno would be killed and that Giles' jacket would be an element of the case. If Cris told Kam and Lindsey about Geno taking Giles' cell phone out of the jacket, then Kam and Lindsey did get an "insider" tip as a direct result of Cris being the killer.

Second, even if Cris truly didn't know any details of any of the crimes, that's irrelevant. Cris started out as a contestant, but Cris volunteered to be the killer for a guaranteed $50,000. As soon as Cris agreed to be the killer for $50,000, Cris was no longer a contestant. Cris was an employee of the producers, just like Giles, the two maids, the re-enactment killer, the cameramen, and all the rest of the production crew.

The maids probably didn't know any details of the crimes. But regardless whether the maids knew any details of the crimes, if the maids helped Kam and Lindsey solve the riddles and make it to the final 4, that would be inappropriate because they work for the producers.

Same with Cris. Cris worked for the producers. So it was as inappropriate for Cris, a paid employee of the producers, to solve the riddles for Kam and Lindsey as it would be for Vanna White to solve a puzzle for a Wheel of Fortune contestant.

there is no point to giving them such a clue at all since the end game doesn't involve knowing the killer's identity


My point is that they should tweak the endgame so that the final players attempt to discover the killer's identity. In other words, make it really a Whodunnit?

Giving the most impressive player each week a clue to the killer's identity is one way to incorporate that element into the game. Another way is to make the final puzzle challenge questions be about the killer, such as how I described in this post:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2699226/board/flat/218542596?d=218654732#2 18654732

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> Cris says in this podcast that the producers told her to tell Giles to do the limbo and to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno

Yes and no. In the podcast she says that nobody wanted to limbo so the producers told her to tell Giles to limbo and he handed his jacket to Geno. She says that the producers hadn't planned on that, but they later decided to work that scene into the plot and invented the idea of Geno stealing the cell phone.

In any case, Cris says that she didn't think anything of the producers telling her to say that since the producers were always telling people where to stand and what to say to move the game along. She wasn't singled out more or less than the other players.

> what other tips might the producers have given to Cris (and thus Kam and Lindsey) on the other murders?

Not many. She also said that sometimes it took three or four hours for the players to find the clues and often a day's filming would take 16 hours. If the producers were feeding her tips and clues, the game would be a lot shorter.

It's not like the edited version you see on TV where they are stuck for two minutes and then someone suddenly has a brilliant idea that works. There are several hours of them being stuck.

> If Cris told Kam and Lindsey about Geno taking Giles' cell phone out of the jacket, then Kam and Lindsey did get an "insider" tip as a direct result of Cris being the killer.

Except that there was no actual phone in the jacket at the time. The producers worked that into the plot later and filmed close-ups of Geno taking the phone. Cris never knew about it.

> Cris worked for the producers. So it was as inappropriate for Cris, a paid employee of the producers, to solve the riddles for Kam and Lindsey as it would be for Vanna White to solve a puzzle for a Wheel of Fortune contestant.

Only if Cris knew any of the details, which she said that she didn't. She was playing the game exactly like the regular players. In fact, she said that her best cover was to work hard at solving the puzzles from scratch.

And, it would not be unfair if Vanna helped the players if she truly didn't know any more than they did. She doesn't because that's not part of the game.

> My point is that they should tweak the endgame so that the final players attempt to discover the killer's identity. In other words, make it really a Whodunnit?

That's a complaint I've had all year. And Rob even mentioned something like that on the podcast.

But, they'd have to completely revamp the game to do that. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. It sounds like the show has been renewed, so maybe we'll get to see.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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Except that there was no actual phone in the jacket at the time. The producers worked that into the plot later and filmed close-ups of Geno taking the phone. Cris never knew about it.


It doesn't matter that there was no actual phone in the jacket at the time or that the prodcuers worked that into the plot later and filmed close-ups of Geno taking the phone. Just look at the timeline:

1. The producers told Cris to tell Giles to limbo and to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno.

2. Giles' tells Cris and Melina to go to the morgue themselves because he seems to have lost his cell phone.

3. In the morgue, Cris and Melina find Giles' cell phone in Geno's pants when Giles calls his cell phone.

4. Lindsey basically tells Kam and Cris that the killer left a note for Geno to steal Giles' cell phone.

If the killer left a note telling Geno to steal Giles' cell phone, then that's probably going to be on the quiz. So when and how did Geno steal Giles' cell phone is probably going to be on the quiz.

And Cris has all the information she needs to put it together. The producers told her to tell Giles to do the limbo, which resulted in Giles' giving her his jacket, and then she gave it to Geno. It doesn't take rocket science to deduce that was when Geno stole Giles' cell phone. Thus Cris would know exactly when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone based on the tip the producers gave her. And if Cris told Kam and Lindsey when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone, then she gave them information based on an "insider" tip.

Only if Cris knew any of the details, which she said that she didn't.


Whether or not Cris knew any of the details is irrelevant. The maids probably didn't have any more information than Cris had on the murders. But if the maids helped Kam and Lindsey solve the riddles and make it to the final 4, that would be inappropriate because they work for the producers.

Same with Cris. Cris started out as a contestant, but Cris volunteered to be the killer for a guaranteed $50,000. As soon as Cris agreed to be the killer for $50,000, Cris was no longer a contestant. Cris was an employee of the producers, just like Giles, the two maids, the re-enactment killer, the cameramen, and all the rest of the production crew.

it would not be unfair if Vanna helped the players if she truly didn't know any more than they did.


Even if Vanna White didn't know the answer to the puzzle, it would be inappropriate and unethical for her to help any of the contestants solve a puzzle. Imagine if the 3 contestants are competing on the last puzzle to get into the bonus round. Then Vanna White, even though she wasn't told the answer to the puzzle, figured out the answer and yelled it out during one of the contestants' turns and that contestants wins the puzzle because of it.

Regardless of whether Vanna White was told the answer to the puzzle or whether she figured it out on her own, the other 2 contestants, the audience, and the sponsors are all going to suspect interference and tampering by the producers because Vann White is a paid employee of the producers.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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> But if the maids helped Kam and Lindsey solve the riddles and make it to the final 4, that would be inappropriate because they work for the producers.

You seem overly hung up on the fact that Cris was a paid employee. The thing is that that fact has nothing to do with the outcome. She was not given any inside information and she played the game exactly as any regular player would have. There is no functional difference between a paid employee that knows nothing and a contestant that knows nothing.

On the podcast, Cris notes that they had lawyers and other watchdogs following every step of production to make sure that everything was fair and conformed to game-show laws. They concluded that no one was given an unfair advantage by the producers.

And, if a pre-planned part of the game was that the maids could help anyone that asked them, that would be a perfectly fair part of the game. Apparently, the rules that they set up was that the maids were not to get involved.

> Even if Vanna White didn't know the answer to the puzzle, it would be inappropriate and unethical for her to help any of the contestants solve a puzzle.

Inappropriate, yes. But, it would not be illegal if it were a stated part of the rules of the game that she could help.

Consider this; would it be inappropriate for a game-show contestant to ask the audience for help? Because I see that happen on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire and The Price is Right all the time.

Also, on WWTBAM, there is an option to ask the producers to remove two wrong answers. If that isn't blatant producer help, I don't know what else is.

The bottom line is that the producers or their employees can help the players as long as that help is equally available to all players. Cris teamed up with the first players that asked her. Ronnie and Geno could have asked her first, but they didn't.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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You seem overly hung up on the fact that Cris was a paid employee.

There is no functional difference between a paid employee that knows nothing and a contestant that knows nothing.


I'm glad you brought this up. Have you ever seen those contest entries in which the rules say something like "Employees of such-and-such company and their relatives are ineligible to participate"?

Be honest. Admit that you have.

When they put in that rule, it not only applies to the CEO of the company, but the to janitors and the mailroom clerks. The janitors and the mailroom clerks might not have any information that would help them win the contest, but that's irrelevant. They're paid employees of the company so they're ineligible to participate.

So Cris being a paid employee of the producers does matter. Because Kam and Lindsey were provided information and saved from elimination not by another contestant but by a paid employee of the producers, while the other players weren't.

would it be inappropriate for a game-show contestant to ask the audience for help? Because I see that happen on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire and The Price is Right all the time.


The difference is the audience members aren't paid employees of the game show's producers.

The bottom line is that the producers or their employees can help the players as long as that help is equally available to all players. Cris teamed up with the first players that asked her. Ronnie and Geno could have asked her first, but they didn't.


And I'm glad you brought this up. Because Geno did ask Cris to join their team. After Ulysses was killed and it was Kam, Lindsey, and Cris remaining, Geno offered one of them a chance to join his team and guarantee that they would be Spared that night.

Cris refused. So Cris, a paid employee of the producers, chose to help Kam and Lindsey only. So by your own admission, the help was not equally available to all players.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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> I'm glad you brought this up. Have you ever seen those contest entries in which the rules say something like "Employees of such-and-such company and their relatives are ineligible to participate"? Be honest. Admit that you have.

Of course I have. But, those rules are not mandated by law. They are put in place for CYA reasons. The company lawyers don't want Ted from shipping to win the $100,000 grand prize and have the rest of the world think that it was an inside job. That would be a PR nightmare.

Also, they don't want Susie from accounting actually try to rig the game so that her husband wins the grand prize.

But, there is no law that requires that employees can't win a company's contest.

> So Cris being a paid employee of the producers does matter.

Only from a PR point of view. People like you will raise a fuss and suggest that the game was unfair because of it.

From an actual gaming point of view, Cris being an employee does not matter at all, as long as we assume that she was not given any information at all related to the game play.

> Because Geno did ask Cris to join their team. After Ulysses was killed and it was Kam, Lindsey, and Cris remaining, Geno offered one of them a chance to join his team and guarantee that they would be Spared that night. Cris refused.

True. But still, Geno did not ask first. He asked Cris to switch teams once alliances had already been formed.

Like The Mole, Cris was probably told not to actively seek an alliance but if people came to her first and asked that she should join them, just like any regular player would. But, she was probably also told that once she agreed to an alliance that she should stick with that alliance until the end.

Kam was just fortunate that he asked Cris first. Geno and Ronnie and Don were all law-related players and they initially figured that they could do this all on their own. Kam figured that he needed a team to get the job done. He was right and he won the game.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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as long as we assume that she was not given any information at all related to the game play


And that's what we all had assumed before. But now we know that assumption wasn't true. The producers tipped off Cris on an element of Geno's murder when they told Cris to tell Giles to do the limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket, giving Geno (who had a Scared card) an opportunity to steal his cell phone.

And in the summary, the killer described how and when Geno stole Giles' cell phone. So Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was an element of the case, an element that the producers tipped off Cris about.

So since our assumption that the producers didn't give any "insider" tips to Cris wasn't true in Geno's murder, what other "insider" tips did the producers give to Cris in some of the other murders?

she was probably also told that once she agreed to an alliance that she should stick with that alliance until the end.


So basically you're saying that the producers, who tipped off Cris on an elemtn of Geno's murder, told Cris not to give any information to anyone except Kam and Lindsey. That sounds like the producers were favoring Kam and Lindsey.

Geno and Ronnie and Don were all law-related players


I thought Geno was a bar trivia host. How is that law-related? Is it legal trivia?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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> The producers tipped off Cris on an element of Geno's murder when they told Cris to tell Giles to do the limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket

Yes, they told her to say that, but she wasn't tipped off to any information. On the podcast, they indicated that they were each told to do lots of stuff that was just to move the action along. They could read nothing into it.

Besides, as I said, there was no phone in the jacket at the time for Geno to steal, so Cris couldn't even have known that this non-existant phone that wasn't actually in Giles' jacket was a part of the murder.

> So basically you're saying that the producers, who tipped off Cris on an elemtn of Geno's murder, told Cris not to give any information to anyone except Kam and Lindsey.

Like the Mole before this, that player was told to stick with whomever asked first and play the game as if they were a real player. A real player doesn't openly share information with a rival alliance just because they ask.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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there was no phone in the jacket at the time for Geno to steal


It doesn't matter that there was no actual phone in the jacket at the time. Just look at the timeline:

1. The producers told Cris to tell Giles to limbo so Giles would take off his jacket.

2. Giles' tells Cris and Melina to go to the morgue themselves because he seems to have lost his cell phone.

3. In the morgue, Cris and Melina find Giles' cell phone in Geno's pants when Giles calls his cell phone.

4. Lindsey basically tells Kam and Cris that the killer left a note for Geno to steal Giles' cell phone.

If the killer left a note telling Geno to steal Giles' cell phone, then that's probably going to be on the quiz. So when and how did Geno steal Giles' cell phone is probably going to be on the quiz.

And Cris has all the information she needs to put it together. The producers told her to tell Giles to do the limbo, which resulted in Giles' giving her his jacket, and then she gave it to Geno. It doesn't take rocket science to deduce that was when Geno stole Giles' cell phone. Thus Cris would know exactly when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone based on the tip the producers gave her. And if Cris told Kam and Lindsey when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone, then she gave them information based on an "insider" tip.

Cris couldn't even have known that this non-existant phone that wasn't actually in Giles' jacket was a part of the murder.


Not everything is always spelled out. But Melina was able to deduce that Ronnie wrote a letter in the library and drank some tea despite the fact that she only went to 1 location.

Like I explained above, Cris has all the information she needed from the 4 facts I stated above to put it together and deduce that Geno stole the cell phone from Giles' jacket when Giles took off his jacket to do the limbo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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> So when and how did Geno steal Giles' cell phone is probably going to be on the quiz.

Maybe, maybe not. Did you see the quiz? I haven't. How the phone was stolen probably wasn't on the quiz because the producers have said that they added that concept later, after everything had been filmed and edited the footage to look like Geno had stolen it from Giles' jacket.

So, there was nothing for Cris to know at the time.

> But Melina was able to deduce that Ronnie wrote a letter in the library and drank some tea despite the fact that she only went to 1 location.

Good for her. She seems fairly smart and that's how she made it to the final four.

> Like I explained above, Cris has all the information she needed from the 4 facts I stated above to put it together and deduce that Geno stole the cell phone from Giles' jacket when Giles took off his jacket to do the limbo.

And did Cris actually figure that out and tell anyone?

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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Maybe, maybe not. Did you see the quiz? I haven't. How the phone was stolen probably wasn't on the quiz because the producers have said that they added that concept later, after everything had been filmed and edited the footage to look like Geno had stolen it from Giles' jacket.


The killer left a note at the last scene whereabouts telling Geno to steal Giles' cell phone. So it's pretty clear that Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was an element of the case and would be on the quiz. So the only question was when and how Geno had the opportunity to steal Giles' cell phone.

And like I explained to Hikkommi (who insisted that the scene of Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was filmed after Geno's death scene and changes the details of the case), it doesn't matter if the scene of Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was filmed before or after Geno's death scene.

In the summary, the killer basically described the sequence of events as follows:

1. Cris tells Giles to do the limbo.
2. Giles takes off his jacket.
3. Geno steals Giles' cell phone from his jacket.
4. The killer kills Geno.


Based on Hikkomi's stupid argument, since the scene of Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was filmed after Geno's death scene, then the details of the case change, so the sequence of events is:

1. Cris tells Giles to do the limbo.
2. Giles takes off his jacket.
3. The killer kills Geno.
4. Geno steals Giles' cell phone from his jacket.


Do you see the flaw in that?

Like I said, it doesn't matter if the scene of Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was filmed before or after Geno's death scene. The sequence of events doesn't change.

At some point before Geno is killed, Geno steals Giles' cell phone. And by telling Cris to tell Giles to do the limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket, the producers may have tipped off Cris on when and how Geno had the opportunity to steal Giles' cell phone.

there was nothing for Cris to know at the time.


Like I said, Cris knows:
1. The producers told her to tell Giles to limbo so GIles would take his jacket off.
2. Giles' tells Cris and Melina to go to the morgue themselves because he seems to have lost his cell phone.
3. In the morgue, Cris and Melina find Giles' cell phone in Geno's pants when Giles calls his cell phone.
4. Lindsey basically tells Kam and Cris that the killer left a note for Geno to steal Giles' cell phone.

Given the 4 events above, it's not a stretch for Cris to deduce that Geno stole Giles' cell phone when Giles took off his jacket after Cris told him to limbo similar to how Melina deduced from other facts that Ronnie wrote a letter in the library and drank some tea. And the 1st event above was a result of the producers tipping off Cris on when Geno had the opportunity to steal Giles' cell phone.

did Cris actually figure that out and tell anyone?


First, not eveything that happened on the show is shown. So you can't assume that Cris didn't tell Kam and Lindsey, especially since we know that Cris told Kam and Lindsey 99% of all the clues she found. So it's reasonable to conclude that Cris told Kam and Lindsey when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone.

Second, even if Cris didn't give that "insider" tip to Kam and Lindsey, since we know that the producers tipped off Cris on an element of Geno's murder, what other "insider" tips did the producers give to Cris (and then Cris gave to Kam and Lindsey) on some of the other murders?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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You are tiring me out.

It is a Federal offense to rig a game show. ABC lawyers and other officials were on hand every moment of the game. They signed off on everything. Nothing the producers did gave anyone any kind of unfair advantage.

It's really that simple.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

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You are tiring me out.


It's the opposite. First, I had to explain to you that Sheri, the 1st victim, was a real contestant. Next, I had to explain to you that the killer was chosen at the beginning and not at the final 4.

Was I right or was I wrong on those?

It is a Federal offense to rig a game show.


Bank robbery and kidnapping are also Federal offenses so no one would ever bank robbery and kidnapping, right? And Wall Street brokers would never commit insider trading because that's also a Federal offense, right?

If no one ever broke the law, then we wouldn't need to have jails. But people do break the law. So saying that something is a Federal offense doesn't mean we can expect no one will ever do that.

ABC lawyers and other officials were on hand every moment of the game.


And lawyers are always honest people who never bend the rules, right?

Nothing the producers did gave anyone any kind of unfair advantage.


The producers tipped off Cris, their paid employee, on an element of Geno's murder. Giving "Insider" tips certainly qualify as giving an unfair advantage.

And since you brought up the topic of fairness, it isn't enough to just be fair. It also has to appear to be fair.

For example, during the Florida recount in 2000, Florida law says that a committee of 3 state officials are in charge of overseeing the recount. One state official is the Governor and one state official is the Secretary of State. I forget who the 3rd sate official is.

But the Governor at the time was Jeb Bush. Since one of the candidates was his brother, Jeb Bush recused himself from the committee. Now Jeb Bush could've been 100% honest and completely fair. But that's irrelevant. Even if Jeb Bush were 100% honest and completely fair, it doesn't appear to be fair. So in order for it to appear to be fair, Jeb Bush had to recuse himself from the committee.

Similarly, when a paid employee of the producers basically hand picks who the 2 finalists are, it appears to be anything but fair. That's the reason why contests normally prohibit any employees of the company AND THEIR FAMILIES from participating.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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For what it's worth, every cast member was a paid contractor.



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For what it's worth, every cast member was a paid contractor.

And those contest rules you speak about sometimes do have tiers in which low ranking workers are still eligible. Their purpose, as someone explained, is optics, because it would look bad if the CEO's wife won the prize.


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It doesn't matter that there was no acutal phone in the jacket at the time

It DOES matter because its a crucial part of your Cris witchhunt.


1. The producers told Cris to tell Giles to limbo and to take Giles' jacket and give it to Geno.

You claim the producers said this to Cris, you never showed us any proof as in links to youtube videos or forum/twitter posts of the producers or Cris.
Therefore the only thing we know for shure is that Cris tells Giles to limbo.
Cris doesn't touch Giles's Jacket. Neither in the scene at the end of episode 6 where they limbo nor in the scene in episode 7 where its re-inacted how the killer killed Geno. Geno grabs the Jacket himself from Giles.
Which means she could have been kept in the dark about the jacket being a part of the murder therefore NOT necessary knowing it will hit Geno next.
Some people are just polite and help with holding someones jacket.


2. Giles' tells Cris and Melina to go to the morgue themselves because he seems to have lost his cell phone.


A clue which would have said to any morgue crew regardless if Cris was part of it or not. And this happened during the "game" and not before which means it isn't any previous knowledge either.
And Cris didn't chose to go to the morgue. Lindsey wanted to go "last known" and Kam always takes the crime scene (exept for looking at a dead sasha in the morgue) and Cris got the morgue by default.

If the killer left a note at the last known whereabouts, then the contents of that note is probably going to be on the quiz.
So when and how did Geno stel Giles' cell phone is probably going to be on the quiz.

And Cris has all the information she needs to put it together.

She only knew about the missing/stolen selfphone because she was in the morgue crew. She only gets the information that the killer told Geno to steal it because Lindsey blabbers it out and NOT because any information the producers gave her.
And that he got it when he took Giles jacket would be OBVIOUS to any of the contestants who were present during the limbo because unless he is a skilled pickpocket he wouldn't have had any other window of opportunity for that.
You yourself said:
It doesn't take rocket science to deduce that was when Geno stole Giles' cell phone.


Giles' giving her his jacket, and then she gave it to Geno


Again, rewatch the episode, she didn't touch the jacket.


Thus Cris would know exactly when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone based on the tip the producers gave her.


Anyone who either went to the morgue or the "last known" or got told about it from the teammates would know that without any tips from the producers which may or may not have happend.

And if Cris told Kam and Lindsey when and how Geno stole Giles' cell phone, then she gave them information based on an "insider" tip.

Kam and Lindsey would have been smart enough to figure that out themself and would need that so called insider tip, which wasn't really an insider tip.


Like I said in many many other threads in which you keep on spreading your unfounded Cris witchhunt: Just because it didn't end up how YOU wanted it to be doesnt make it unfair.
Grow up.

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It DOES matter because its a crucial part of your Cris witchhunt.


Nope. It doesn't matter.

Melina figured out that an element of the case was that Ronnie wrote a letter in the library before he went to the pool and was killed. Did Ronnie really go to the library and write the letter before he was killed? Or was the scene of Ronnie writing the letter filmed after his death scene?

It doesn't matter. Because whether Ronnie wrote the letter before or after his death scene was filmed doesn't change the case at all. Lindsey, Melina, Kam, and Cris only needed to know that, from the persective of the case, Ronnie went to the library and wrote a letter before he was killed. Ronnie could've written that letter after they filmed his death scene, but it didn't matter.

Same with Geno stealing Giles' cell phone from his jacket. Whether Geno stole the cell phone before or after his death scene was filmed doesn't change the case at all. All that the players needed to know, from the perspective of the case, was that at some point Geno was able to steal Giles' cell phone before he was killed. And the producers gave Cris an "insider" tip that would've allowed her to figure out from the other clues exactly how and when Geno was able to steal Giles' cell phone.

And like I said, since the producers tipped off Cris on an element of Geno's murder, what other "insider" tips did the producers give to Cris (and thus Kam and Lindsey) on some of the other murders?

Kam and Lindsey would have been smart enough to figure that out themself and would need that so called insider tip


The same Kam who said Don died of a heart attack from being scared to death by the mountain lion? The same Kam who kept thinking Geno was the killer and then thought Melina was the killer after Geno was killed and then thought Lindsey was the killer and didn't think Cris was the killer even when it was down to just him, Cris, and Lindsey or even when he was in the room with Cris at the end?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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Jumping from Geno's murder suddenly to Ronnies doesn't save your stupid theories.


And just to show you how stupid they are and without any actual fact base look at this youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y34QNCCZoOs
The limbo topic comes up at 21:36 and there you see that she was only to tell Giles to limbo. The jacket didn't come up in what the producers said to her and you know from the end of episode 6 and the beginning of episode 7 that she NEVER touched the jacket, which makes your rant about your so called "insider information" totally and utter pointless.

Like I said so many times your just blinded by your unjustified rage against Cris that you make a fool out of your self here in the forum in each and everyone of your rant posts.

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Jumping from Geno's murder suddenly to Ronnies doesn't save your stupid theories.


It refutes your stupid claim that it mattered that Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was filmed after Geno's death scene. I proved that it doesn't matter because it didn't change Geno's case at all, just like Ronnie writing the letter could've been filmed after Ronnie's death scene and it didn't matter because it didn't change Ronnie's case at all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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you prooved sh!t

The only thing you prooved is that your still not have any clue...

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you prooved sh!t

The only thing you prooved is that your still not have any clue...


No, I proved that you're a moron.

In the summary, the killer basically described the sequence of events as follows:

1. Cris tells Giles to do the limbo.
2. Giles takes off his jacket.
3. Geno steals Giles' cell phone from his jacket.
4. The killer kills Geno.


You're saying that the scene of Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was filmed after Geno's death scene and changes the details of the case. How does it change the details of the case? Is the killer going to describe the sequence differently, such as:

1. Cris tells Giles to do the limbo.
2. Giles takes off his jacket.
3. The killer kills Geno.
4. Geno steals Giles' cell phone from his jacket.


Based on your stupid argument, that's how you're claiming the killer would describe the sequence since Geno stealing Giles' cell phone wasn't filmed until after Geno's death scene. LOL!

Like I said, it doesn't matter if Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was filmed before or after Geno's death scene. The sequence of events in the murder is the same regardless of when the scene of Geno stealing Giles' cell phone was filmed. Thus I've proven that I'm right and you're a moron.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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I'm trying hard to see your point.

Tell me if this is how you see it:

1) Producers gave tips to Cris.
2) Cris shared tips to players.
3) Players used these tips to do better on the quiz.

The theory lives or dies on whether any of these premises are true. If any one of them is false, the theory is invalid. Personally I don't see evidence for any of the 3.

A player succeeding based on their team is not cheating, nor necessarily unfair.

There's many similar programs that prove that.

'72 Hours' has 3 players to a team, and the team must all touch the final target to win. If one player is useless or gets injured, other players lose.

'Survivor' assigns teams. Some players get put on a team with someone else that's strong or smart or cunning or charming. Their team does well, setting up future advantages for that player.

There's many examples.

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A player succeeding based on their team is not cheating, nor necessarily unfair.

'Survivor' assigns teams. Some players get put on a team with someone else that's strong or smart or cunning or charming. Their team does well, setting up future advantages for that player.


It is if the producers give "insider" tips to some players and not others. How many of those Survivor players got "insider" tips from the producers?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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I presume you have finally abandoned your earlier allegations that Cris was involved with the jacket now that video evidence confirms what we were trying to tell you?

If so, that means the grand total of an "insider tip" that remains would be that supposedly Cris was told "After Giles tells you to limbo, then you tell him to limbo".

I fail to see how that is a tip of any significance.

And besides, all the cast is in on the limbo scene and have parts to play.

Think about it. The executive producer is unwittingly transparent. Other than for his value as a character, the producer didn't really like Kam or want him to win.

You're alleging that the producer gave the most oblique tip with the least usefulness to someone who might indirectly leak it to a player he's averse to helping and who already witnessed the event first hand anyway?

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I presume you have finally abandoned your earlier allegations that Cris was involved with the jacket now that video evidence confirms what we were trying to tell you?


I presume you have finally abandoned your earlier claim that Cris was didn't tell Giles to limbo now that video evidence confirms what I've been trying to tell you.

I fail to see how that is a tip of any significance.


The reason for Cris telling Giles to limbo is so that Giles would take off his jacket. And in the summary, the killer said that Geno stole Giles' cell phone after Giles took off his jacket to do the limbo, which Cris told him to do.

Like I've been trying to explain to you, a tip doesn't mean that everything is spelled out for them. A tip could just be a detail that they might not think is important at the moment, but given other clues that they find out later, the detail that they got from the tip could help them put all the clues together.

We do the same thing. When we watch the final episode and they reveal some clues from earlier episodes, some of those clues we overlooked and didn't think were important when those episodes originally aired.

For example, when Don, Melina, and Cris were examining the crime scene in the 1st episode, Don used terms that cops normally used. Melina called Don "the ex-cop". Don said "I'm not a cop". Cris said her dad was a cop. Now that by itself didn't raise any suspicions at that time.

But later, Cris said she knew about horses after Ulysses' murder and said she knew about guns after Geno's murder. Now suddenly Cris' statement in the 1st episode about her dad being a cop has some significance.

Similarly for Cris:

1. The producers tell Cris to tell Giles to limbo so Giles would take off his jacket.

By itself, that detail might not seem to be important to Cris at that time.

But later on:

2. Giles' tells Cris and Melina to go to the morgue themselves because he seems to have lost his cell phone.
3. In the morgue, Cris and Melina find Giles' cell phone in Geno's pants when Giles calls his cell phone.
4. Lindsey basically tells Kam and Cris that the killer left a note for Geno to steal Giles' cell phone.

So the question is when and how did Geno have the opportunity to steal Giles' cell phone. Well, now that Cris knows #2, #3, and #4, suddenly #1 is no longer a trivial detail. #1 is now the "insider" tip that allows Cris to tie it all together and deduce that Geno stole Giles' cell phone when Giles took off his jacket after Cris told him to limbo, similar to how Melina was able to deduce from other clues that Ronnie wrote a letter in the library and drank some tea.

all the cast is in on the limbo scene and have parts to play.

Think about it.


None of the other cast told Giles to limbo. Only Cris. There were 6 people there. If the producers were just giving a directorial note, as you claim, they could've told any of the 6 to tell Giles to limbo. But they only told Cris, their paid employee, to tell Giles to limbo.

Why only Cris, their paid employee? Think about that.

the producer didn't really like Kam or want him to win.

You're alleging that the producer gave the most oblique tip with the least usefulness to someone who might indirectly leak it to a player he's averse to helping and who already witnessed the event first hand anyway?


First, Their intention wasn't to give the "insider" tip to Kam to help him win. Their intention was to give the "insider" tip to Cris, their paid employee, to help her. They probably expected that Cris would give that information to Kam and Lindsey, but it was a chance they had to take to help their paid employee.

Also, even if it seemed that Zuiker didn't like Kam, it seemed that Zuiker did like Lindsey. And there was no guarantee that Kam would beat out Lindsey in the final.

Second, like I said, we've been assuming all along that the producers didn't give any "insider" tips to Cris. But now we know that the producers did tip off Cris on an element of Geno's murder. So what other "insider" tips did the producers give to Cris (and then Cris give to Kam and Lindsey) on some of the other murders that weren't as "oblique" as you claim this "insider" tip was?

We know that Cris, the producers' paid employee, was the only 1 of 6 that was told by the producers to tell Giles to limbo. Cris, the producers' paid employee, was also the first 1 of 8 to find the floorboard with the 2 finishing nails when her "team" was down 3 vs 5.

Hmmm. Was that just a coincidence? Or was that the result of the producers giving "insider" tips to Cris (which Cris then gave to Kam and Lindsey, helping them make it to the finals)?

But the producers wouldn't do that because it's a Federal offense, right? And Wall Street brokers would never commit insider trading because that's also a Federal offense, right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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Your just plain stupid and don't see the point we all trying to make you see.

It all boils down to the claim that you cyring about Cris having "insider info".

"Insider info" is only insider info if the info is only known bei those insiders.

The fact is:

[on cam] Giles starts the limbo and asks everyone to limbo

[off cam] Cris complains and doesn't want to limbo
[off cam] The producers say in front of ALL candidates something like: "fine, but tell atleast Giles to limbo"

[on cam] Cris tells Giles to limbo
[on cam] Geno takes Gile's jacket



I ask you WHERE...for god sake WHERE was your so called "insider info" your b1tching about for days?

Everything after you bring up constantly is pointless to that argument about the insider info you constantly claim in your Cris witchhunt.


And the sad thing is you won't get it after this post either...you will still have your tunnel vision and will post a long reply with 90% content you already typed a few times and we already have disputed everytime.

If you are on this level of intelligence go watch "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo", I bet you can learn a lot from that.

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WHERE was your so called "insider info" your b1tching about for days?


You admitted on another thread that the producers put a magnifying glass on the table to help Cris read the fine print on the contract. So Cris, the producers' paid employee, was given a magnifying glass to help her read the fine print. Cris, the producers' paid employee, was the only 1 of 6 that was told by the producers to tell Giles to limbo. And Cris, the producers' paid employee, was also the first 1 of 8 to find the floorboard with the 2 finishing nails when her "team" was down 3 vs 5.

Hmmm. When you combine all those together, it certainly starts to look a lot like the producers gave Cris "insider" help. And since the producers gave Cris "insider" help those 2 times, how many other times did they give Cris "insider" help?

I'm sure you'll say that, like telling Giles to do the limbo so that Giles would take off his jacket and give Geno an opportunity to steal his cell phone, putting the magnifying glass there for Cris wasn't "insider" help because the producers might not have told Cris what the magnifying glass was there for. The producers wouldn't think that Cris would realize the magnifying glass was there for reading the fine print just as they wouldn't think that Cris would put all the clues together and realized that Geno stole Giles' cell phone when Giles took off his jacket after Cris told him to limbo, right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOwfRyd9avY

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I said I wouldn't reply to you anymore about your bull$hit BUT I won't let you put words in my mouth either.

You admitted on another thread that the producers put a magnifying glass on the table to help Cris


What I said was: In the scene with Cris and the contract there was a magnifying glass on the table.
I NEVER said who put it there or how it got there.

So you wrong like your always are, but you never admit your own mistakes your just keep on makin stuff up and lying about other.


And you always have to have the last word and it always consists of the same made up, thousand times proven wrong bull$hit you always post.

The best thing would be to just block you, but I can't do that because you keep spreading lies about what I've said.

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The scene with Cris and the magnifying glass was probably a reshoot. This show uses vast amounts of pickup shots.
They have a disclaimer for these kind of shows that allows them to use re-enactments as much as they want.

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Your whole little b1tchfit is based on the facts that you claimed Cris got clues presented on a silver platter.

Your claims where:

1. Cris was told to tell Giles to limbo
2. Cris was told to get the jacket and give it to Geno
3. therefore Cris knew something was up with the jacket
4. Cris saw Geno take the cellphone because she watched him closely


Now let me analyse those points...

1. Yes Cris was told to tell Giles to limbo, BUT as it turns out she was asked infront of the other contestants during the filming, therefore NO insiderinfo (You can find the info about this in the podcast)
2. Cris never touched the jacket and was never asked
3. Everyone saw Geno take the jacket and everyone was equally not informed about its relevance
4. and now to the point I was making....It makes a difference IF he was taking the mobilephone then and there or if he hasn't
Because if he did it could have been noticed by everyone, if he didn't they had get this information either from the "last known" guy (notepad) or from the morge guy.


You just make more and more a fool of yourself ...

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Sadly, this show didn't get renewed, but I wish it did.





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Crochet Designs By Lavina www.crochetdesigns.storenvy.com

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not a chance

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Someone on another post said that this show is due back in 2015, but I don't know how accurate that info is.

Hope that helps you a bit,
~Deb

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