MovieChat Forums > Locke (2014) Discussion > The movie sums up the popular opinion in...

The movie sums up the popular opinion in society that makes me so angry


Man and woman have consensual no strings sex. Woman ends up pregnant. Woman gets to choose whether or not to keep the baby, no one would judge her if she chose an abortion from a hook up with a virtual stranger. Man has no choice and in order to look like a good person must potentially give up his whole life in order to accept his 'responsibility'.

Why is it that a woman gets this choice and a man gets no choice as to whether he wants a baby? Why should he and everyone around him have their lives tone apart because she made that decision? It happens so often and makes me really angry.

Opinions? FYI I am a woman (in case that has a bearing on how this post comes across)

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Yeah, totally! Like, if only there was some way a man could choose to reproduce or not! Something that would empower him to take responsibility for his own seed, like some kind of male contraceptive or something... oh wait...

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I concur. Why are people mad because he is making the honorable decision? You would prefer his to be an ass who abandons a woman he impregnanted?

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[deleted]

Ya nailed it.

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Well there's contraception for women too (there's way more options for women actually when it comes to contraception). So, by your logic, we don't need abortions to be legal? Or at least socially acceptable?

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How is that different from the, "Women should just close their legs" argument?

~I know that I know nothing.~

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Are you saying that if the woman wants the baby but if a man doesn't then she should have an abortion based on his decision? That's a pretty radical statement for a chick.

Anyway, he has a choice. He can choose to tell her to fvck off, and if she hits him with child support I'm sure he can find a way to pay that on the low.

made you look!

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"Are you saying that if the woman wants the baby but if a man doesn't then she should have an abortion based on his decision?"

(I am not the original poster and I am male.) Not at all. The woman can choose to keep the baby -- if she is willing to bear the responsibility of raising the child with no or only partial support (financial and emotional, for both the wife and the child) from the man. The issue the O.P. raised is that in society nowadays there does not seem to be a middle ground opinion for the man -- he is deemed irresponsible if he is "not there".

Anyway, he has a choice. He can choose to tell her to fvck off, ...

The same goes for the woman. She had a choice too (unless there was coercion). It is obvious that the man did not want a child in the first place.

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Exactly what I meant. Sure the woman can choose to keep the baby, but why should there be any expectation that the man then must be involved or he's a terrible person? It seems the choice is solely with the woman and the man has no choice, no matter what the repercussions.

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I understand that point in general, but the character answers that question, in fact it's his driving motivation not to be like his own father who wasn't there. So yeah, have a problem with that kind of situation, but that's not the situation in the film.


Dum Spiro Spero

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I understand that point in general, but the character answers that question, in fact it's his driving motivation not to be like his own father who wasn't there. So yeah, have a problem with that kind of situation, but that's not the situation in the film.


Dum Spiro Spero

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He had the choice, yes, but he did the correct thing. The film preys on what can happen if you're too honest, especially to yourself. He obviously had issues with his alcholic father who ran off and left him a bastrd child and stayed true to himself besides the consquences. A real human being.

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Someone would say (me for example) that if a woman chooses to not have an abortion, even despite the kid being unplanned, she's doing the right thing. But some people start screeching even when they hear people talk that way, but same is not true when it comes to male responsibility, even though they have no choice in this matter. You can look at it from any perspective you want, pro-life or pro-choice, but currently there's a sexist double standard against men when it comes to reproductive rights, they get the worst of both worlds.

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In this case, it has nothing to do with a choice made because of a popular opinion. Not only Locke seems to be of the "over-responsible" kind (9 years in his job "without a foot wrong", and all the people at work depending on him) but he is also greatly motivated by doing what his father didn't do.

And the only thing that could be compared to a popular opinion in this movie is that everybody is surprised by his choice, he's even called mad several times.

I don't think this movie has some kind of message on responsibility, it's just showing us the life of a man which falls apart because of a choice that seems good to him. Not even knowing the other woman, he could have easily forget about her and not even care about her life.

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I don't think this movie portrais the protagonist as having no choice whether to take responsibility for the child or not. IMO it is Locke that gives himself no choice on the matter considering how he suffered the abandonment of his own father. There is nothing pushing him toward that choice but his own personal and painful experience.

Anyway, I don't think that the simple act of being present at the birth actually makes any difference for the child's point of view (as opposed to having a father that lives in the same house and brings him/her up), while Locke seems to think that it would be enough not to make him/her feel unworthy and abandoned... For the movie to make sense Locke should want to spend time raising the child, and I am a bit unnerved that he did not say so once. If he thought just visiting on the day of birth was enough he should have spared himself the trouble, that would be a good memory for the mother, at best, but the child would still have no real relationship with his biological father.

This was about the movie. As for society, I don't think i live in the same one as you, OP. You says it happens often, and i've never seen it happen.
I also think people will judge a woman that chooses to put an end to a pregrancy just the same (or perhaps more harshly) than a man that chooses not to recognize/accept his child.
Women choose alone wheter to carry the child or not (mostly) when they are not in a relationship, and if they decide to keep the child they should, IMO, tell the father, but not demand or expect anything from him. It should be his right to have a role in the child's like as much as having none.

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<<< There is nothing pushing him toward that choice but his own personal and painful experience. >>>

You're right, carlita1985, from the evidence given repeatedly in the film. We're watching a roughly 90-minute story in real time, and as in all good stories, we're given information by the filmmaker for a reason, and Ivan lives up to his surname because he's made a decision he must follow, even when others -- his wife, his boss -- make choices that he would rather they didn't make -- you can't come home, you're fired, respectively. But as you noted, he's still carrying his father's behavior with him, a heavy burden indeed.

<<< Women choose alone wheter to carry the child or not (mostly) when they are not in a relationship, and if they decide to keep the child they should, IMO, tell the father, but not demand or expect anything from him. It should be his right to have a role in the child's like as much as having none. >>>

My experience, I'm happy to tell you, hasn't followed your outline. As a human being, he has a responsibility to support a life he directly shared in creating. He doesn't have to marry the child's mother nor live with the child's mother or the child, so I agree "demand" is too strong a word. But "expect" is not. There is an expectation, I think, that some role is required of a true father. A father can only be a man, and it's been my experience that only a real man, flawed but responsible, can be a good father.

The film leaves it up to the viewer to decide what kind of father Locke's going to be to his newborn child. However, the message from his teen son Eddie, though it certainly hints at something that's wrong within their family -- "We'll pretend we don't know the score ..." -- also clearly shows love and pain and hope in the boy's voice. Those feelings are real, and I think Locke, though he's rightfully without his wife and without that job, is trying to be a better man.

A sincere Merry Christmas, carlita1985.

- Jer in Deerfield, NH

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Woman ends up pregnant. Woman gets to choose whether or not to keep the baby

The overwhelming majority of women would respond to the men who say this as follows: "it's my body. My pregnancy, not YOUR pregnancy. If you don't want to find yourself in a position of having no choice in the matter, keep your fly zipped and your drinking under control.

It's really that simple.

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She'll say that then. Nine months later she will come with the bill. LOL "her" pregnancy.

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Keeping the fly zipped is as much her responsibility as it is his.

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But surely it was equally her choice to have unprotected sex with a virtual stranger. If she chooses to keep a baby under those circumstances, that is indeed HER choice and HER pregnancy, so why should she expect anything from him?

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It really depends on the circumstance. In this case, I'd say Locke was still responsible for that child. If you have unprotected sex with a stranger, as a male, you are risking bringing a baby into the world. It doesn't really matter that women have the advantage of being able to avoid that problem by having an abortion. Think of it this way: rich people can get away with certain crimes, like drunk driving, with fewer repercussions than can the average citizen. Does that mean the average citizen also should be able to get away with drunk driving?
That may not be the best analogy, because having an abortion isn't something morally reprehensible like getting away with drunk driving, but the point is still valid; one person shouldn't be able to avoid responsibility simply because another person is able to.

Anyway, it's probably relatively rare that a man would have a one-time sexual encounter with one woman who later gives birth to his child. The vast majority of situations like this involve a man who simply walks out, or a man who has a lot of similar sexual encounters.

There are situations where I would agree with you - for example, if a woman lied to a man about being on birth control, or in some other way tricked the man into getting her pregnant. Sadly, there are plenty of people in the world that would still think that the father needs to be a part of that child's life, and I share your feelings about that.

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I love how again the man gets blamed this time for not keeping his fly zipped.

As if he just took this woman, knocked her up, she had no choice until pregnant.

More feminist double standards like previously commented about.

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I love how again the man gets blamed this time for not keeping his fly zipped.
As if he just took this woman, knocked her up, she had no choice until pregnant.
More feminist double standards like previously commented about.

Do you live here on planet Earth, where women either live in fundamentalist nations where they have no rights, or they live in nations where they are sexualized beyond belief every second of every day? Nations where their near-naked bodies are used to sell every freakin thing? Where national legislators believe dumba$$ sh!t like "Women can't get pregnant from rape"?

WHEN we have a society in which women have equal rights, in which misogyny doesn't exist, in which we are far far far away from a painful history of men walking away from children (many still do) and a history of "players" (positive term fo sexually active men) and "sluts" (one of many negative terms for sexually active women) -- when more than 5000 years of weird misogynistic *beep* has been cleaned up -- then we can have this debate.

Oh, and until we have a 100% failproof method of female birth control that doesn't have harmful side effects, as do IUDs and the pill.

Until then, YES, it IS more of the man's responsibility to keep his fly zipped, in this porn-saturated, woman-objectifying, woman-demeaning world. If men got pregnant, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Another way of looking at it, because this issue (like every other) is about who has power and who doesn't. Who bears more responsibility for making this an equitable world, the rich white still-powerful people who focked over people of color for centuries, or the still-less-powerful people of color? Who has control of the steering wheel -- who actually has the ability to make or deny change?

Similarly: Who has more significantly more power in this world, men or women? Privilege MUST go hand-in-hand with responsibility, yet too often doesn't.

"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people."

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What kind of woman has a child out of wedlock?

Simple, a gold digger. 99% of the time they do it deliberately so they can claim child support and live off the mans hard labour.

All because he got drunk one night and was taken advantage of. This is how *beep* up society is pal, and you reinforce it.

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This argument would only work if abortions weren't legal or there would be an option for a man to refuse legal fatherhood during pregnancy and not pay child support. Otherwise, anyone who uses this logic just comes off as a hypocritical POS.

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You saw what you wanted to see I'm afraid. She didn't mind if he wanted nothing to do with it, he wasn't forced to do anything. He made a choice. A choice to be a father and to not be his own father. It wasn't forced upon him, it was a choice. Please, listen to the movie carefully!

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I think you should have read the OP's post more carefully - the objection his making isn't about the story of the movie. It's about the situation portrayed in the movie as it appears in some cases in real life.

A woman and a man have a one night stand, and that's the only choice on the matter the man has, it's out of his hand as society is concerned about the birth of the child.

He's not talking about after the birth, acceptance of the child or any other choice. The choice of keeping the child is purely made by the woman. Under all and any cicrumstances as civilized society is concerned. That's what he's talking about - Not the very situation in 'Locke'.

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*she's talking about it.

And yes I agree that it's mainly the woman's choice. She DID call him with the news now didn't she? Because she has a bill for him to pay. Also; even if Locke WASNT married, society would still look at him as the dickhead even tho she never told him. This happened to 2 friends of mine.

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I do understand that in the constrains of this movie alone. My point is that men feel like they need to do that because of the pressures from society that they need to 'step up' when this kind of thing happens.

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Whilst the movie doesn't really apply to the circumstance you're talking about, I see where you're coming from.

Society will criticize a man for not looking after a child, but won't criticize a woman for showing the same disinterest.

If a woman gets pregnant after a one night stand and the man wants to keep the child, would society criticize the woman for getting an abortion? No - (except for those against abortion altogether)

Now, why can't the man make the argument - If you didn't want a child, you should have kept your zipper up.

Is it fair that a man is morally obligated to care for a child he may not be prepared for, when a woman can kill the child if she's not prepared?

Bit of a double standard.

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Double standards are the norm in a society dominated by feminism.

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For thousands of years men have had the choice of walking away from their responsibilities. Now technology and the justice system have leveled - maybe more than leveled - the playing field, and women have more choices when it comes to decisions going or not going through with a pregnancy and expecting the father to help support the child. Let's have a few thousand years of this and then we can reassess.

In the meantime, remember how women were told to keep their legs crossed? Men, keep your fly zipped.

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How about we DON'T have a few thousand years of this double standard nonsense. That's like saying "Oh we had slavery so now it's the white mans turn".

Also your history is clearly one sided and messed up. Men didn't have it any better than women before the 20th century, unless you consider working unholy hours in unsafe conditions to barely scrape by, or being killed on a battlefield you didn't want to be on "patriarchal".

Feminism, when you don't care about reality but want to push a poisonous ideology.

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So feminism is about taking choices away from men?

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in a society dominated by feminism.

LOL! Did you miss the part of our world where literally everything of importance is decided by men or?

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Is it? I must have missed the annual 3.5 billion male gathering to decide how to rule the *beep* world.

Seriously, statements like this are so absurd. SOME MEN run the show, SOME, a VERY small minority of the population. The rest of the male population is no better off than the female portion, and has NO special priviledges.

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Society will criticize a man for not looking after a child, but won't criticize a woman for showing the same disinterest.


They criticise the woman more quietly than they do the man, anyway. As an example, in general courts tend to favour the mother over the father in custody situations. Sometimes the father is much more fit to take care of the child and is by all means prepared to do so, but unless there's solid proof that the mother is at risk of endangering the child, the outcome won't change. This is definitely flawed and something that I hope will change. A child should be with whoever is going to take care of them, regardless of gender.

Now, why can't the man make the argument - If you didn't want a child, you should have kept your zipper up.


I agree. It takes two people to make a baby. Only one of those involved can carry that baby to term and give birth to it, which is why the decision of abortion is ultimately the woman's, but when it comes to making that baby in the first place, the onus is on both partners.

In regards to someone saying these types of double standards stem from feminism running rampant in society. I don't really believe that feminism has anything to do with it, and I'll tell you why. Feminism -- in its true meaning, and not all of the things that have unfortunately and wrongly been associated with it -- is a fairly new concept. The idea of a stay-at-home dad, or the idea that any man could be the sole individual to raise a child, is fairly new as well; for a long time men have been thought of as the main 'breadwinners', the more dominant figure in the household. On the other hand, women have been looked upon as caregivers, nurturers, and givers of life for a very long time, so a bias has been created -- though completely unfair and untrue in some cases -- that mothers are better parents than fathers, and that children favour them due to the stronger maternal connection first created in the womb.

As I said above, hopefully that point of view will change. I think small steps are already being taken in some aspects, as, for instance, some parts of the world recognise a gay couple's ability to raise a child (or children) without the involvement of a woman. And typical gender roles are slowly changing as there are more men staying at home while the woman works, instead of the opposite. Real feminists are happy about gender norms changing.

I am not a feminist, by the way, but I am an egalitarian.

--
'Save me, Barry!'

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some parts of the world recognise a gay couple's ability to raise a child (or children) without the involvement of a woman.

Don't confuse the laws of a country with the privately held opinions of the general population. I don't know any country where a majority of the people think gay men have an "ability to raise a child" that anywhere near approaches that of a heterosexual couple.

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Well, that's an obvious problem, and is very much relevant to what I said in my previous post.

By the way, with that statement that you quoted, I'm referring to both laws allowing gays to marry and adopt, as well as individual opinion on the matter.

--
'Save me, Barry!'

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Good and important points made here

Women are the gatekeepers of life...

Equality means equality

Women says Yes - Man says no = Yes
Women says NO - Man says Yes = No

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Welcome to an "emancipated" (i.e feministic) "western" society.

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