MovieChat Forums > Das finstere Tal (2014) Discussion > Was Greider the son of Brenner?

Was Greider the son of Brenner?

posted 10 years ago by Biondett0
23 replies | jump to latest

Just seen the movie again on Bluray. While I think it is one of the best german language movies I have seen in years there are still some thing I dislike.

For instance I think it would have been much better without the voiceover. Of course some people would not have understood the backstory of Greider but I just was thinking how perfectly the story of Harmonica in "Once upon a time in the West" had been told and how spoiled it would have been with an voiceover.

But here is the question to which I have not been able to come to an answer: Was Greider maybe the son of Brenner?

There are some hints, like the conversation they have in the bedchamber at the end and in the flashback scene when you see how the bride was rescued and then hidden. It seems unlikely that they were having sex in their hideout.

[–] ben_on_imdb 10 years ago

Hey Biondett0!

I absolutely agree with you - I was actually surprised that I didn't hear from the movie before I absolutely by chance got to see it with some friends - because we were watching Once Upon a Time in the West, coincidentally. Referring to some posts on the movie 'Im Finsteren Tal', I in fact really liked the soundtrack, expecially the new interpretation of 'Sinnerman' at the beginning and at the end.

To me, there are two possible explanations to your question; both explain Greider killing Brenner satisfyingly in my point of view.

-Brenner raped his mother, he is his (maybe youngest) son. Maybe there's a biblical reference here to Joseph, I'm not sure if it's too far away though. Since the mother managed to escape, this revenge would make sense. This is the more simple interpretation in my eyes and I also read the story this way when I saw the movie the first time.

-His mother was already pregnant from Greider's father, her husband or fiancé, but due to the harsh religious times and the conservative folk, expecially in the Alps and the country, they had to marry due to the imminent visibility of the pregnancy. So Greider eventually revenges his father.

Another interpretation to me is that Brenner considers all younger men in the village area to be his sons, as he clearly tried to position himself as a godlike leader who would feed the people and, like a feudal ruler, would sleep with the wives in the first night after the marriage. A hint to that explanation was the sermon of the priest at the wedding, telling the townsfolk the story of how Joseph had to accept Maria bedding with god to receive the Messiah.

[–] sky_erosion 10 years ago

The last one is spot on. It's just he doesn't have to consider them as his sons, at least every first born is his son.

To the question of OP: The book made it clear that the Brenner is Greider's father. That's why in the movie Greider pauses for a thought, even cries, but eventually shoots the Brenner.

[–] bruce-129 9 years ago

> at least every first born is his son.

Well, maybe by the story, but in real life not all acts of intercourse produce children. The woman has to be in the right phase of ovulation, and traumatic rape often will cause the impregnation to be rejected.

For purposes of a tale, yes, this is probably right, but this movie is really awful. I just watched it, and I really got sick when Greider forced the old woman to eat the coin. That would kill someone, he should have just shot her. Stupid pointless scenes of barbarism.

While it was watchable, it was bad, 2/5.

1) UnWatchable 2)Watchable,ButBad 3)Decent,SeeOnce 4)Good,Repeat&Recommend 5)Great,Classic

[–] mothermayhem3255 9 years ago

Now why would he do that? She was a Judas. He made her pay. Her life, living with what she did for money.

[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Mtoomb 9 years ago

Pointless? POINTLESS?? He should have done the same thing to everyone in town. First of all, the "old lady" deserved it for selling out his mother and father.. Great film.. Reading some of the reviews about how people are confused as to the Greiders motivations... Did they even watch the whole movie? It's completely spelled out in the beginning, and at the end we get an unnecessary voice over that tells us everything we already know..

[–] kobrakai_1337 9 years ago

The Dark Valley is one of the best movies I've seen in a long time! You would also like Blue Ruin, please check it out...I love revenge movies! xD

[–] lantzn 9 years ago

These questions are confusing me as well. I just watched it on Netflix and everything is either explained in voiceover or by the characters. Maybe some people saw a version with some scenes cut. Here's what the version I saw tells us.

1. The brides don't just stay one night with old man Brenner, they continue to sleep with him until they GET pregnant and then are returned to the groom. I think that was explained when they were showing his mom being rescued by her groom.

2. Brenner was his father and both men knew it. That is why he even bothered to take the time to sit with the old man. Brenner even confirms it when he says he had killed his brothers and that he was his father. That is why the tears are shed as he killed him. Brenner basically gives him the go ahead.

[–] voigaswolpertinger 7 years ago

so dear, very smart watcher bruce-129, that is why they extra mentioned, that the old man brenner, did not only exercise the right similar to "primae noctae" in the wedding night, but he bedded/raped the women until they were pregnant.
it does really pay off, to pay attention to a movie before shredding it or critizising it. but then again i assume you are a native english speaker and thus ignorant enouogh to not speak a second language fluently and might have missed that fact.
anyways, i recommend you watch a movie properly before you state some "facts" that are only produced in your small imaginary brain
regards from someone who speaks more than his mother tongue

[–] aghinem 9 years ago

I looked for the book in English, but I couldn't find a translated version of it. :-( Does the book explain who the women are in Brenner's house? Were they his daughters? Or wives of his sons? In the movie, Luzi didn't want to have sex with Lukas before marriage. At first I thought it was for religious reasons, but now I'm thinking it was something else. Was it because she didn't want Brenner to find out she wasn't a virgin? Or because if she got pregnant with Lukas's child, it would be attributed to (and raised by) Brenner? Did Brenner's depravity extend to raping his relations when they got married (daughters, daughters-in-law, granddaughters)? Given how eager the sons were over Luzi, I wondered if they raped new brides as well (dear ole dad probably wasn't as virile or fertile as he used to be).

[–] moby_gr 9 years ago

I don't think that Greider is his son. If Brenner is -already- raped Greider's mother, she didn't have to hide herself from Brenners...
So I am still confused (I don't have read the book)

[–] Pregnat_asian_woman 9 years ago

Old Brenner calls his sons Greider's brothers....so yeah I'd say that he was his son. They didn't have Maury Povich back then, so we'll never know the DNA results. There's always room for some doubt, so you can interpret things however you want, but I'd say the film was pretty explicit in the matter.

[–] Darth_Yannis 9 years ago

Spoiler much???

[–] kelii3 9 years ago

The scene with Greider in Brenner's room at the end...the old man makes it clear Greider is his youngest son. and a huge hint when he didn't reply to the girls question very early on: "Who is your mother?"

[–] springerman 9 years ago

He was his son.

Brenner made that clear when he referred to his dead sons as Greiders half brothers.

Having said that, I was a little confused at this point, because earlier in the film Greider had told Luzi that his father had died a long time ago.

I suppose he meant that as far as he was concerned, his father was dead.

** I read the news today, oh, boy. **

[–] popestreet1004 9 years ago

Yes, Greider tells Brenner his sons are dead and Brenner says "Your Brothers" (didn't read book)

[–] goeth-benn 9 years ago

Yes!

The voice over makes it clear that Brenner keeps the bride until she falls pregnant...

[–] msenjur 9 years ago

yes, but his mom run away, when she waiting in brenners bedroom. so they havent had sex. or did she run after?

how does the book state that he is his son?

anyhow, they all desirved to die.

even that old woman should die for telling brenner where they are.

Sweet revenge.

[–] filmtenk 9 years ago

All Greiders half brothers had blue eyes. Wonder if ghos was a references to Arian race and fascists nazis.

[–] voigaswolpertinger 7 years ago

filmtenk, err, the movie is situated in the late 19th century and back then there were no nazis yet. and, beg your pardon i am tall with blue eyes and the hair was white blonde as a child, do you think i am a leftover from nazi-engineering or are you just a leftist or hyper sensitive minority member, out on the hunt for something to cry "racism" over? blimey, our people range from short n stocky to tall and lean, like all the people everywhere. and if you took time to have a look at townsfolk, do you see the short ones, the stocky ones, the dark eyed ones, the bearded and darker skin coloured ones?
jesus h christ, you people and your racial madness and nazi-fear under every stock and stone. maybe come and try get us extinguished, so you can stop to worry forever if there is a nazi or aryan reference in anything that your strange eyes see

[–] filmtenk 7 years ago

Hmm I posted this almost 2 years ago and I do not remember what I was referencing or why I was using colorful language. Sorry for the offense. I'm visiting Berlin in March so I will observe people and try get a fair and well rounded impression of the German citizenry.

This movie deserves a rewatch maybe it's time! Hope it's still on Netflix.

[–] jvaughan2 9 years ago

I also agree that the full reveal of the backstory with flash-back views was unnecessary, but we did need to understand that his mother escaped.

I would like to hear more about this from someone who read the book.

In the film his mother is taken away before Brenner could be sure she was pregnant. It implies (to me) that she escaped before being raped by Brenner, but even if she had, he would not know she was pregnant when she left.

Since Greider had a name, and said his father was dead, it appears to me that it is clear that Brennan was not his biological father. Now, the book may have had something more. One thing that I also think possible is that the husband of his mother may have been his father, and he was conceived before she left the valley.