MovieChat Forums > Sleepy Hollow (2013) Discussion > So,did you guys see this?

So,did you guys see this?


NYCC 2016 - 'Sleepy Hollow' Interviews With Executive Producers( it's on youtube)

Very interesting,to say the least ,if what they say is true, then that means that Nicole co-signed that awful stereotypical mess,maybe that's the real reason she hasn't spoken about her departure. Because if they are lying on her and tom ,it's time for her to speak up,to hell with the gag order(if there is one).

Although what they say contradicts what Mison said at the london comic con,then again he said it 2 or 3 weeks after the finale,so he could have been trying to save face,because of the backlash.

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Is this what you mean?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-57F2Zd4HrU

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yep,didn't know how to make it clickable,thanks

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[ url ] the url [ / url ]
Minus the spaces.

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Thanks

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The writers claim Nicole and Tom co-signed the statement about Abbie’s existence being all about pushing Crane forward, however, Tom’s earlier comments at a UK event dispute that. When asked about that line Tom said he was against it and voiced his opinion. He called it “a great shame” and “slightly misguided.” You can watch the video at the link below. At around the 9:50 mark Tom reads a question about the line and gives his opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGoKjnNQyNQ

I do not believe Nicole or Tom co-signed the line. Why would Tom even be asked? Why would Nicole be asked? If they thought the line was no big deal, why would they feel the need to pass it by the actors, especially Nicole who’s leaving? They never gave a darn about Nicole’s opinions in the past. She said in an interview my site was a part of, that she isn’t consulted on scripts and has never felt the need to question anything they wrote for her.

The writers say in the interview they were shocked at the level of backlash and so they are looking to absolve themselves by blaming everyone else for ish they wrote. They are basically saying, ‘yeah we wrote it, but they agreed to say it, so they’re really the ones to blame.’



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[deleted]

They know damn well that we know they'd NEVER deign to ask Nicole anything about their precious scripts. Their M.O. has always been one of arrogance. They know best or better than anyone else. The fans should just shut up and watch.
This^^

They must think we're STUPID. And this isn't the first time they've tried to patronize us. It's incredibly insulting and makes me want to kick them all in the balls.
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All insults will be interpreted as an admission that you cannot contribute to the discussion.

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"I think I find it improbable for producers to boldly go in interviews and tell obvious lies. Especially those three."

" Surely if the producers have gone on camera and told a blind faced lie the actors can sue them in breech or something? Doesn't a gag order work both ways?"

Thank you,that's all I'm saying,remember peoples reputation is at stake here.Everybody thought this show was going to be cancelled,producers, writers,actors.Maybe ,just maybe at the end of the day,nobody gave a damn anymore. If they had known about renewal I'm sure we wouldn't have got that rushed crappy finale,they might not have released nicole from her contract,we may never know.

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TM said on 2 occasions that he did not approve of it. Both times were BEFORE SH got renewed and they put the lock down leash on him. He is under contract so he will now tow the Party line.

Tom, OJ, and Zach have all said that they DO NOT take their input on the script with the exeption of tweeking the old British dialogue for Crane. But as far as Story Line. NO. The writers do not do what the actors want.

They only started the BS about asking for TM & NB input when the writers screwed up Ichabbie and AM's death.

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Thanks for the clarification.

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[deleted]

"Why would producers go on camera and tell lies that will only come back to haunt them? Again doesn't a gag order work both ways?"

And this is what i can't get past,as my dad used to say ,if you gonna tell a lie ,at least tell a good one.Mison has to be pissed cause this makes him look real bad,as I stated earlier,they thought the show was going to be cancelled,nobody cared how bad it ended they were all ready to move on.

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[deleted]

" I'm not trying to disrespect Nicole Beharie choice of keeping quiet. But I feel she needs to give her fans something."

Thats all I'm saying too.A few words from nicole could clear all this up.

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Again. With her non-disclosure agreement she may not be allowed to say anything other than "creative Tensions". The same way OJ was not able to for a certain # of months. Her NDA could be for a few months , the duration of the show or a few years.

On top of that Hollywood is way harder on women than men and as a young actress she could end her career by calling them out, even when her NDA is ended.

Also... she hasn't done anything wrong & should not have to defend herself against the poor writing by the writers or the mishandling of actors by Fox & SH ptb.

If they wanted her to stay they would have worked it out as they did with Tom. But they wanted her out so they didn't.

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" With her non-disclosure agreement she may not be allowed to say anything other than "creative Tensions". The same way OJ was not able to for a certain # of months".


Maybe ,maybe not,we don't know for a fact that she did sign a non-disclosure agreement,that's just a assumption,as far as oj,neil,john and zach,they have all thrown some shade in some form or fashion,hell even tom did it but,he is still on the show ,so it is what it is with him.I guess nicole is the only one that can't speak,just not buying that.

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NDA's are an actual thing. And as I said before OJ was NOT allowed to say anything at first.

If you think TPTB didn't include a NDA as part of her contract out then ROF!!!

I get it. Most who still want the show wants to demonize NB. It's no surprise & nothing new TBH.

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I don't know what ROF means,and i'm not demonizing her ,i am actually a fan ,as I stated before

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I don't know what ROF means,and i'm not demonizing her ,i am actually a fan ,as I stated before

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Maybe ,maybe not,we don't know for a fact that she did sign a non-disclosure agreement


Just like we don't know that she didn't. So why the glass half empty outlook?

that's just a assumption,as far as oj,neil,john and zach,they have all thrown some shade in some form or fashion,hell even tom did it but,he is still on the show ,so it is what it is with him.


Like I said to other poster: so? What they eat don't make NB do #2, so why bring that up? It worked for them, it doesn't work for NB. I'd rather assume its for a good reason (NDA, too hurtful etc) but then again I'm not an entitled fan who thinks actors I've never met nor never will meet owe me stuff.

I guess nicole is the only one that can't speak,just not buying that.


Yes she was screwed over and is deciding to withhold the details of why for no other reason than she's unappreciative to fans. No other possible explanation or "assumptions" to be had. Well done Holmes you've solved the case.

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oj,neil,john and zach,they have all thrown some shade in some form or fashion,hell even tom did it but,he is still on the show ,so it is what it is with him.I guess nicole is the only one that can't speak,just not buying that.


Well, one of these things is not like the other.

Here's a hint: probably only one of them has ever been told "you should smile more; you'd look prettier if you smiled"

As in many businesses, when men speak up or push back, they are commended. When they are assertive, they are admired, commended and often rewarded. Even when they are pushed out and lose, people don't think worse of them simply because they advocate for themselves. They can push back, talk trash, call each other out, and that's just how it goes.

When women speak up and push back, they are called "aggressive" "B*tch!" and worse. And with Nicole being a black woman, I imagine that effect is multiplied.

There have been studies that when women speak up or try to negotiate employment terms, they suffer negative consequences that male co-workers don't:

It’s not that men are immune from being seen as tough or unlikeable when they make aggressive demands. Attempting to negotiate can make anyone seem less nice, Bowles repeatedly found. But it’s only women who subsequently suffer a penalty: people report that they would be less inclined to work with them, be it as coworkers, subordinates, or bosses. The effect is especially strong, Bowles has found, when people observe women who engage in salary negotiations. “Money in particular seems to be a hot one,” she says.


http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/lean-out-the-dangers-for-women-who-negotiate

Look at Jennifer Lawrence speaking out after the Sony hack, and all the flack she got. She was seen as being greedy and pushy and aggressive...after admitting that she probably didn't negotiate as much as she should have, and got paid much less than her male costars as a result, because she was afraid to be seen as not nice enough.

And look at television history, filled with women who were labeled as "b*tch" "difficult to work with" "b*ll b*sters" and had trouble finding work, simply for speaking up, sharing their thoughts, and wanting to be part of the creative process: Kate Jackson, Cybill Shepard, Candice Bergen, etc etc

Mindy Kaling has spoken about the difficultly with being a women who speaks her mind in Hollywood:

Another conflict she addressed during her talk is balancing her need, as a producer, to be authoritative with wanting to be liked. "I am very decisive, but I also care what people think of me," Mindy explained, "I want it to be a certain way, but if I stay for too long, I'm like, 'But there's some wiggle room.'[...] I'm very assertive, even to the point of being brusque, and then I just send cupcakes with a note that says 'I'm sorry that I was so assertive. Love, Mindy.'" She elaborated on the "cottage industry" in LA of "apology gifts" to send for being too assertive as a woman, including flowers and puppies."I'm sorry I demanded respect at that meeting, here's a puppy party," she joked. It's funny, but all too telling.


And she's the boss!

Yeah, there may be reasons why Nicole is not speaking out, when some of her former costars did. It may be an NDA, it may be that she decided to take the high road, or that it's just not worth it. But given the way the world works ATM, none of the most likely reasons are reasons to throw shade at her IMO.



Have a lovely day - John Finnemore

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I wasn't throwing shade as as a fan of the show as well as Nicole,I was just wondering.That's all

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But I feel she needs to give her fans something.


No, she actually doesn't. And this is why outsiders don't take fans seriously, well one of the reasons, that implied entitlement. I'd bet money she appreciates her fans but that's besides the point, if "giving them something" will hurt her, legally or financially or both, she shouldn't do anything until the coast is clear.

Orlando made it obvious without directly slandering the network. John Noble just didn't care. Tom seems happy with his new contract or he would have walked too.


So? To all of that. So? Nicole is a grown woman able to think for herself, if she felt talking about the particulars of why she's no longer the show, in detail, was feasible, she would. That she isn't why don't so-called fans assume its a good reason? Legal reasons or heck maybe its too hurtful?

This is the irony, folks claim to be fans of NB but yet through these words they seem like they don't really give a damn about her, just what they themselves want. They're curious so they have to know, screw whatever affects it may have on NB.

Here's a thought. You don't have to do this (both general you and specific you), but I will: I'm putting the onus of this entire situation on the producers/writers/et al of Sleepy Hollow and no one else. Period. If evidence comes out to change that, fine. If not, also fine. Nicole doesn't owe me an explanation. She doesn't owe me a damn thing. But I owe HER a big thank you for three great years and I wish her luck in future endeavors.

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Yes they can. And they have. When Orlando was fired TPTB straight up lied and said that he left because of other projects & schedule conflicts. It wasn't until MONTHS later that OJ was FREE to say that was a lie. He was fired and told that Irving SL didn't fit the new direction.

So YES the PTB Lied to the audience & had OJ not finally been able to tell the truth, fans would still believe the lie that he left because he wanted to go.

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Nope. Because the actors are under contract. OJ was fired so basically he just had to wait until his non disclosure expired.

NB wanted out of her contract. They could have forced her to stay but they didn't because they wanted her out too. Who knows what details are in her non disclosue, but SHptb are free to spin the story however they see fit (as they did with OJ) If she violates the non disclosure she can be sued. Even if there is an expiration on her non disclosure, she could suffer consequences (blackballed in Hollywood) if she comes forward about what really happened.

TM thought SH was being cancelled so he was Very candid after the finally and said the Story line for Abbie's death was a great shame... on two seperate occasions.

He may have wanted out because we know that SHptb had to renegotiate with him. Which is something they don't have to do because they have him by the you know whats. The renegotiating is usually done to keep a disgruntled or dissatisfied actor compliant. I don't know exactly the details except TM has wanted more time off.

It was only after renegotiation & renewal that TM began to tow the party line, which is to be expected... and at that he says VERY little about NB departure.

When OJ was fired, he went along with the party line by not calling them out until months later via tweets & a video Q&A when he finally spilled the beans.

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NB wanted out of her contract. They could have forced her to stay but they didn't because they wanted her out too. Who knows what details are in her non disclosue, but SHptb are free to spin the story however they see fit (as they did with OJ) If she violates the non disclosure she can be sued. Even if there is an expiration on her non disclosure, she could suffer consequences (blackballed in Hollywood) if she comes forward about what really happened.


Well the OP and his sidekick doesn't care about any of that. Who cares what consequences it could bring to NB, they need to know and they need to know NOW!

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Who the hell are you?,her agent?

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What we know about OJ is that he was vocally Pro-Ichabbie & Pro letting a black female lead be romantically linked to the white male lead. His presence on social media, fan interaction & being Ichabbie seemed to be disliked by the SH ptb.

I think the nail in his coffin & the beginning of the end for NB, judging by timelines was when NB posted on Instagran that she was not invited to do S2 DVD.

OJ confirmed this by adding that NO POC were invited to do the DVD.

It was around this time that Cliff came in,OJ was fired (but we were told he quit), we got SHptb introducing Betsy & Zoey (cranes new love interest) & rumors that NB may want out. (via MoR I believe)

As a fan who followed things closley last summer before S3, this is how things unfolded from what we could see. Again the only BTS details we have are from OJ, and those are limited.

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True on the TM renegotiation.

There was a LOT of speculation going on surrounding this a while back.

here is the thing. TM is contracted for every episode already. SH had nothing to gain by renegotiating. They already had big star in a contract for every episode for 7 yrs.

At the time before renewal he said he had to turn down new projects bc SH contract.

Maybe he wanted more $. But the way he keeps shading the budget cuts, I don't think so.

Maybe he wants time off in his contract.

He may have tried to gain the ability to do other projects (which SHptb would not be able to do without blowing their cover for why NB wanted out)

One of the reasons some TPTB may renegotiate is when their big star is unhappy or wants out. They try to find ways to keep the big star happy.

Also... The new SH seems like a spin off. There is speculation that it was going to be a spin off but they couldn't keep TM bc his contract was for SH. So just because they went into renegotiation, does not mean anything in the OC changed.

Again tho, none of this is fact or can be proven. It's just the speculation from fans & ppl who deal with contract law.

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I think something like this scenario is very possible.

The only thing I'd clarify is that he had to come back if renewed whether he liked it or not, because of the contract.

So they'd rather have big star come back happy (happy-ish) than disgruntled.

& TM and his agent would be smart to take advantage of the opportunity to get perks.

He can get time off & still be in every episode by shoehorning him in like they did Ichabod in Mama. Or just popping him in at the end of an ep like they did Abbie in One Life.

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He had a contract. TPTB were as eager to get rid of Nichole as she was to leave, so she was given an out. It cost her a lot in terms of character assassination, but nothing financially. The same would not be true for Tom.

Shows usually start with a 5-7 year contract for the actors.

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No, David. No one is happy in a poodle skirt and a sweater set.

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Thanks for the insight.

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Thanks for the insight.

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True. They are banking the success of the shw on him. There was no way they were going to let him out.

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I’d like to add that Nicole has never given her side of the story and never said why she left the show. Nicole has been to several events since the S3 finale and has said nothing on camera or tape. However, when she appeared at the Brave Summit earlier this year at Georgetown University, one of the school’s journalist said Nicole cited “creative tension” as her reason for leaving the show. You can read the tweet below.

https://twitter.com/PAGilchrist/status/723979400853753856



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Nicole is the missing link in this mess,until she speaks up there is no way to know what's true and what is lies .She needs to defend herself at some point.

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She needs to defend herself at some point.


Nah, she really doesn't.

All she needs to do is continue working and doing a good job in interesting projects, and her reputation will speak for itself.

TPTB will spin whatever way they choose whether or not she says anything. And their work will speak for itself too (just like the creative choices they made throughout SH speak volumes about their world views and ability)


Have a lovely day - John Finnemore

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That's my point, how long do you let other people defend you,as in her fans and admires,which I am one of,before you make some kind of statement yourself?

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[deleted]

Inquiring minds want too know,lol

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That's my point, how long do you let other people defend you,as in her fans and admires,which I am one of,before you make some kind of statement yourself?


Well adults let actions speak louder than words, which is what HannahLee was getting at I'm guessing. Children need hand holding and specifics.

Several people already have said she doesn't need to defend herself until she's good and ready. If folks read into that as some sort of admission of guilt that's on them not her.

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Well ,I guess I'm a child then,now where did I put my blanky.

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Well adults let actions speak louder than words, which is what HannahLee was getting at I'm guessing.


Yes! What's that saying? "Living well is the best revenge", right? Or "when they go low, we go high!"

People can say whatever they want, make up whatever they want to spin what happened or cover their tracks. (look at what happened with OJ) Words can mask the truth of a matter. Why should she waste her breath, time or energy trying to combat those who shovel smoke and trash on a daily basis?

But if she just keeps on keeping on, doing good work, working with people who respect her and her abilities, and rewarding that trust with quality work, there is no need for her to waste time and energy justifying herself and revealing details of the mud (and other stuff) she already wiped off her boots when she moved on. Her talent, and maturity, and integrity will shine through to people who are paying attention, and people will continue to want to work with her, speak well of her, etc.


And the SHPTB, no matter how they try to spin NB's departure from SH, they are still the same people they always have been: same morals, same lack of story telling ability, same tendency to throw people under the bus at will. That kind of behavior catches up with people, especially in a competitive and insular industry like Hollywood. I think of some of my favorite actors who get called back to work again and again by people they've worked with before on a variety of projects, and certain directors and other crew who get called in to help out on a project, because people know they are professional, creative and can deliver. And sometimes it's the 2nd AD or props coordinator or PA on some project from years ago, who is now a producer or director and knows who was an a** and who was a professional; because they were invisible and didn't matter, they saw everything - that person can offer opportunities or shut doors.

Sure there are little pockets of jerks who support their nasty buddies no matter what, but unless they are above the line talent, have deep pockets for financing, or are Woody Allen, eventually people get sick of dealing with their sh*t (and even with above the line talent, patience runs out...just look at someone like Chevy Chase) Being talented, and behaving professionally seems to serve people better in the long run.





Have a lovely day - John Finnemore

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HannahLee...well said.

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Nicole doesn’t have to defend herself. Also, I caution ppl against following behind and believing random ish ppl say online. I recently read where someone claimed someone came into their job passing out fliers about the show’s taping and then started ranting about how evil, uppity, and hard Nicole was to get along with. No one involved with the show has said anything negative about Nicole. No one. But some random flier-passer-outer has intimate knowledge of behind-the-scenes happenings. Puleeze. People involved with Sleepy Hollow don’t pass out fliers. That is the lowest of the lowest non-paying jobs ever. People make up lies to go with their narratives and I believe that story was totally made up by a someone wanting attention.

Nicole has been smart being classy and quiet. Most of these rumors are coming from random ppl online, not anyone involved with the actual show. Nicole and her career will be just fine.



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Yeah,I thought the passing of fliers sounded kind of fishy too.

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[deleted]

I think that me,you and cocoalounge-1 should be on a panel,cause nobody seems to ask the good/right questions,lol

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lol,haha

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Someone also tweeted that during Con LG was blaming NB for leaving.

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You lost me with that one,lol.

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It was a blogger. & he seemed to be on board with the blame NB crowd so...

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Exactly. She doesn't need to defend herself, especially when it has been TPTB, who have lied and contradicted themselves constantly.

And I'm sorry, but I couldn't care less what Mison, who is always contradicting himself anyway, or Greenwood, who is rather shifty, have to say either. They are still very much on FOX's paycheck.

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Well, by now you've seen the opening show and you've seen them junk the cast except for Mison and Greenwood they have hired all new faces and they have turned SH into an X-Files show. What do you think?

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