So enjoyed this movie, but did I miss something?- George lucks into a great Greenwich Village apartment, next we see George and Ben together having a wonderful evening and then Ben leaves on the subway to go presumably to his own place, separately.
What happened- why are they both not living together in the Greenwich Village apartment? I don't get it-
I just assumed that scene was before they had a chance to move in. But I felt there were a lot of things left out of this movie - Lithgow's death, why the kids stole the French books, what was going on between Tomei and her husband (was he cheating?), even what kind of job did Tomei's husband have since he was constantly on his cellphone, etc.
Ladies and gentlemen, here he is Mr. Warmth himself, the one, the only - Mr. Don Rickles!
It was established earlier that Ben had heart problems and probably died shortly after their date. George needed a place to live and took the apartment on his own. Elliot was a film maker and seemed quite consumed with his work. I have NO idea what the Vlad French novel storyline was all about. The film could have ended 10 minutes earlier than it did.
shareI agree that the ending was bizarre. They should have ended it right after they left the bar.
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Ben walked down to the subway and George clearly walked down the street to get home after their date. Ben probably passed away in the subway. It was a sad ending but they were together in love for 39 years. That's pretty good this day and age.
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My friend and I speculated that they had just found the apartment but had not yet moved in together, so Ben is heading back to his nephew's. I hate the idea that they split and then Ben dies.
shareChiscully, I assumed the same thing.
I was confused by the final scene in which the boy visits George and breaks down crying afterwards. I wished I knew more about what caused that crying. Was he gay and wishing he'd had the courage to tell George? Was he just miserable remembering how he treated Ben? Was he just sad that Ben died? Why does he kiss the girl and go skateboarding with her at the end?
Again, the movie is never explicit about it. But then he comes out and joins his girlfriend, and one remembers his conversation with Ben about love.
That boy crying in the landing is probably the only openly emotional moment in the whole movie. I feel that he's crying about the unfairness of it all, but of course that's just my guess. Same thing with the French books. Why would they steal Cyrano de Bergerac?
I fart in your general direction.
Yes, Joey crying in the hall is definitely connected to a vivid memory he has of his Uncle -- that he encouraged him to speak to a girl the next time he has a crush on one. His girlfriend, as you speculate below, may actually be the one he was telling Ben about, but even if it isn't, he would forever remember that conversation, and connect it to his first girlfriend.
There may also be guilt that he had told Ben that he wasn't a good painter.
I thought that skipping over the death of a loved one and cutting to the emotional aftermath (which also happens in one of the two best movies of the last three years, The Great Beauty) was very effective. It gives the audience something of the shock and sense of displacement that the characters must feel.
Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.share
Thank you for your insightful and thoughtful response. I completely agree with your interpretation.
he would forever remember that conversation, and connect it to his first girlfriend.as well as your comment about the effectiveness of cutting to the emotional aftermath
I think he was crying because he was remembering how he had behaved and how he'd said that Ben was not a good painter.
shareI wished I knew more about what caused that crying. Was he gay and wishing he'd had the courage to tell George? Was he just miserable remembering how he treated Ben? Was he just sad that Ben died?
Why does he kiss the girl and go skateboarding with her at the end?
I watched this movie last night and the ending has haunted me. I came here for answers too.
My interpretation is that the movie is about love in all of its shades and facets: friendship, long-term marriage, young/new love, stale, taken-for-granted love, kindness of strangers, respect for humanity, public and private displays of affection etc. I think that through these themes, the movie seeks to explore the fact that love takes courage and that it evolves, renews itself and is a resilient and ultimately triumphant emotion.
The movie focuses on the long-term relationship between Ben and George, BUT we also see the other expressions of love as they play out in their lives. We witness love as duty between relatives in Elliott and Kate taking Ben into their home; we see the love of neighbours with the cops downstairs taking George in; we see the love of a mother for her son with Kate trying to negotiate peace in the house when Ben's presence becomes a strain for Joey; we see the staleness of the relationship between Eliot and Kate, we see consideration and kindness for a stranger in the guy passing on his rent-controlled apartment to George, we see love-without-marriage in the 39 year-relationship between George and Ben and the resilience of love with the entire situation between them at this stage of their lives together; presumably, we see the love of a father in the painting of the man and the baby at the end, and in Elliott's concern for Joey's relationship with Vlad; we see forgiveness (a profound expression of love) and the inter-generational familial dynamic despite conflict in the conversation between Ben and Joey about approaching the girl and later in Joey's tears in the stairwell; we see that he has compassion (another kind of love) for George's feelings in coming to apologise for not going to the funeral and respect (yet another kind of regard) for Ben in saving his painting and transporting it across town on his skateboard so that George could have it. I have to confess that I wondered if Joey and Vlad were experimenting in some sort of physical relationship, but there is very little evidence to suggest this and yet, just ordinary friendhsip/male-bonding is yet another kind of love that we can see here. I believe that this is not inconsistent with the overall theme of the movie since it would not be outside the discussion of love for us to look at of sexual experimentation, identity-formation and then an ultimate decision that "this is not for me."
The movie ends with an expression of new love and hope for the future of love with Joey kissing the girl and them skating in unison (see what affinity literature suggests about that) into the sunshine. The fact that the girl went with him to execute this task suggests that she will stand by him in the more difficult and mundane moments of his life, and that she will be with him in the pivotal times when he has life-altering experiences. The look on Joey's face suggests determination and hope to me. He can chart a new path based upon what he has learned from his parents' marriage and his grand-uncle's marriage.
In this movie, love triumphs over the human condition, it triumphs over death with George getting the picture that Ben painted as an unexpected parting gift, with Ben getting the posthumous gift of Joey's ultimate regard and George's resilience in coping with his passing (surely if you love someone you do not wish him/her to fall apart if you died). It is very sad that they did not get to live in the apartment together, certainly not for any length of time (Ben could have lived there but have left the painting at his nephew's home when he packed his things, but I doubt that). What that says to me is that, whatever else it may be, love is NOT sentimental.
The movie is never explicit about it, but one can assume that they have not have time to move in together when Ben dies.
The fact that the character is heading down the subway does nice double work, as an informative bit that let's you know that they are not still living together, and as a symbolic one, since that may be the last time they see each other alive, and Ben is heading for the underworld.
That scene is pretty ominous, and then you learn that Ben passed away while still at his nephew's --otherwise it wouldn't make sense that Joey comes to see Molina's character and bring him the painting.
I fart in your general direction.
I saw them separating, going back to their respective non-abodes.
The next thing we see is George arriving @ the new rent-controlled apartment? Immediately, a discussion discusses Ben's funeral.
I, obviously, assume time has passed, but not a LOT of time. Weeks or months.
Carpe Noctem!
I see what you mean, and I agree. We get a sense that enough time has passed for George to settle in his new apartment, and for Joey to get a girlfriend (probably the girl he told Ben about), but not much more.
I fart in your general direction.
I like your interpretation of the symbolism of Ben going down into the underworld, felix. I thought he looked quite frail when he and George parted after their date. It was subtly done so, while I was sad to learn that Ben had died, I wasn't entirely surprised. I assumed that he'd died before they'd had the chance to move into the new flat together. I think the boy cried at the end because he'd been a bit mean to Ben and regretted it. On a positive note, he'd followed Ben's advice about the girl so love and kindness won the day. Very sweet-natured and charming film. Wonderfully warm and nuanced performances from Lithgow and Molina.
shareAmbrosia-I - YES! God, someone got it!
Yep, that's it.
Like tag wrestling... the courage and ability to love got passed on from the painter guy to the young man, a victory for love, but as we know, our own expression of it is temporary, but love carries on.
Why do you think they split? We're given no indication of that. It was just a case of seperated by death, not seperation then death. Sad, obviously, but I'm not sure why you think that the relationship didn't stand the test of time.
shareIt was indeed an abrupt ending. However, first the film hinted that something was going to happen when Molina left Lithgow at the subway and the camera lingered on the subway sign for awhile. Then, the film jumped to Joey's visit to the new apt where Moilina had moved to, and one of the first things that Joey said was that he was sorry he was unable to attend Lithgow's character's funeral. But, they never said how the character had died. You just assume something happened to him at the subway (heart attack? accident? mugged?).
shareMolinas and the nephew discuss [pre]Lithgow's accident, and the fact that Lithgow protected it "in mid-fall". I presume Lithgow fell out of the top bunk and in order to not ruin his painting, twisted, and did himself a fatal injury.
Left too much for speculation and far too much unexplained, a bit of a wasted opportunity, although beautifully filmed.
Yeah, if I pieced it together correctly, he had been painting up on the roof, finishing his work, and when he went to go down the stairs, he fell and managed to protect his painting, but it cost him his life in the process.
I think this is hinted at from earlier in the film, where he fell down the steps and broke his arm. That stairwell was dangerous, and likely to cause harm, and I think it ultimately caused Ben's untimely end.
Just my two bits.
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-= J =-
Don't think so - no reason to think he fell a second time. The reference to protecting the painting related to the time he was coming down from the roof. After that fall he could not paint. Nothing given to us even hints at there having been another fall. However, the discussion about his heart condition and the very frail way he walked down the subway steps makes it almost as clear as if they'd said it outright - he was an old man with a heart condition that caused his death.
Exactly. The heart condition is set up beforehand and he did seem frail which is why I winced at seeing him being left to walk down the subway stairs by himself. I wondered why he wasn't being escorted by George not only because of Ben's injury and age but I also presumed George knew that there was some concern for Ben's heart situation. And those steps are dark!
BUT then I figured there was no other way to show this scene of the two separating from the other and this scene was too beautiful to forgo.
IMO time passes and they are living in the apartment together for some time but not too long before he dies.
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I had the impression the film did not want to take the focus off the older couple, so some of the other story lines are left unresolved. They don't really matter in the end. Joey is the other key character, because he learns something about love from Ben and George. Joey's crying scene is touching because it puts the character into a different perspective, and suggest that Ben had a real effect on him, even after death. Joey was clearly changed by knowing Ben and George. I think this film works in a sort of poetic way, not spelling everything out and leaving a viewer to feel something from it.
sharewhy do you have to have absolutely everything spoon-fed to you? can't you make the links between events without it being explained to you like a 4 year-old? or alternatively get to the end of a film and have questions? is there something wrong with that? must everything be neatly put in place for your feeble mind?
you're such an american