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Mixed emotions, complaint about procreation - Spoiler


Entire post is a spoiler, leave now if you must
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Though the acting by all three was fine, in the best sense, and the direction is fine as well, I am left cold, annoyed, and miffed at the story line. As a 40 y/o female who's lived the life, gone through abortions, and subsequently had my tubes cauterised, I am annoyed that my sisters would
1. Have a child "on principal", out of some sort of moral obligation, when they are overwhelmingly NOT ready to be a mother (as my own mother did)
2. To lay responsibility without proof onto an individual when promiscuity was the context.

In this story, not only was the mother's chance at a career ruined, because she chose parenthood instead, but she also ruined the life of a man who all his life has carried the false guilt of being an irresponsible progenitor.

This is maddening. Parenthood is something that must be chosen, not given into. Kids with ruined emotional lives, adults with ruined emotional lives.

We, and the planet as a whole, would be much better off, if people had the balls to end things instead of letting some sort of moral rectitude force an unwanted life into this world. There is no obligation to breed, I was born within a year of this guy, and the 60s were still alive and well when I got to 18.
Women have been having abortions throughout all of history, so the worst line of the script is Lilliard's character saying his mom "could not" abort, due to her culture... this is a lame excuse.

Conclusion
Execution: 9/10
Story: 4/10 ( no amount of skill can right a bad story )

***So I've seen 4 movies/wk in theatre for a 1/4 century, call me crazy?**

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I understand your point of view but I think your personal perspective is tainting your understanding of the story here.

In this story, not only was the mother's chance at a career ruined, because she chose parenthood instead,

But she made a choice. She presumable worked hard for her career, but she was 21 and maybe she thought that having a child was more important than trying to be a dancer and ending with a bum knee two years later. What makes you assume that she didn't like her life just because she didn't have a dancing career?

she also ruined the life of a man who all his life has carried the false guilt of being an irresponsible progenitor.

She hardly ruined his life. He made his own choice and decided to ignore the "responsibilities" society would have pushed on him, and went on with his career. He said he loved his life. When you're old enough, you always get to a point where you examine the path not taken, that doesn't mean your life was unhappy.

Women have been having abortions throughout all of history, so the worst line of the script is Lilliard's character saying his mom "could not" abort, due to her culture... this is a lame excuse.

That's his personal taint on his mother's choice. Mike's got a big chip on his shoulder and that's because he felt he was unwanted, by his mom who, logically should have wanted her career more than a child, by his father who never wanted to know who he was and chose his career over his child.
We don't know his Mom didn't want him and just made that choice out of social, cultural pressure, whatever. She obviously wasn't pressure into not having sex by "moral rectitude" so who's to say she didn't chose to have a child instead of a "career"?

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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I think both of you miss the point, or rather the obvious criticism of this movie, and that is that being a secretary and being raised in a single parent home, well, neither of these things are unusual, damaging, or a rational source of such overwhelming angst for anyone except the critically conceited. My mother had to make coffee for people...you bastard! Really. So everyone with a mundane job has a ruined life in this art wanker perspective.

And I get why a 17 year old kid might, just might, be upset about not knowing his dad, but a man in his 40s with a wife and a college education and a steady job? Nup. It's ridiculous.

This storyline might possibly have made sense half a century ago, but even then, millions of children grew up without dads for the simple reason war took them.

The OP has it right about Toby tho. For Mike's mother to choose to live that life and have the child, and to allow Toby (and Mike) to think the child was his was just cruel.

This script is a little bit BS to be blunt. A waste of 3 good actors' time.

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agreed

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I think it's entirely legit for a grown man, married, and with a college education, to be still emotionally damaged by his lack of a father.

In fact, the older one becomes, the more strained the gap between chronological and emotionally-arrested age becomes.

Mike was a mess, and his messy state was getting triggered at the prospect of becoming a father himself when all he had for a dad was some fly-by-night promiscuous dancer (either one of the suspects) who'd indulged in the zeitgeist of the age without any intention of settling down.

Father, like Mother, is an Archetype after all, and a necessary part of our psyche. Like an old-fashioned photo negative in developing fluid, this Archetype gets humanized by each and every particular father and mother a child experiences. Without the real deal on hand, and mystery surrounding their identity, the child becomes a hungry ghost.

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No. There comes a time as adults when we have to deal with those things and leave the pain behind. Clinging to it and using it as an excuse to fail is just weak. Mike's mother should have done a better job raising him. She should have taken responsibility for her actions, and by doing so, led by example. Instead, she made what she didn't like about her life someone, anyone else's fault, which is what Mike has been doing. That's what she taught him. Maybe the meeting with Tobais gave him a much needed wake-up call.
"I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul."

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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When there's a gap there's nothing to cling to except a ghost: ideal or wretched or something in between. Yes, of course, the actual encounter provided everything needed, but it was needed.

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When there's a gap, you don't use it to excuse bad behavior or poor life choices. I know who my biological father is, and I know he never wanted me. That doesn't give me an excuse to blame any failed relationships I've had on him. He made his choice to not be a part of my life, and I made the choice to accept that. I've been lucky enough to have two wonderful father figures in my life; my mother's second husband and my grandfather. If and when I screw up, I own it. I don't blame it on not having my biological father's love. That's what adults do. Mike's mother must have been a pathetic piece of work.

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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BINGO: You were lucky enough to have two wonderful father figures in your life: your mother's second husband and your grandfather.

Obviously they more than enough filled in the gap. Mike wasn't so lucky. That makes for all the difference in the world.

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Mike's mother might have had men in and out of her and her son's life. That was another failure on her part. SHE chose to have him. SHE chose to raise him the way she did. SHE taught him to blame others for his failures. HE chose to live his life that way too, even though it didn't seem to bring her any kind of happiness.
You feel strongly about this, and so do I. Mike is supposed to be a grown man. Grown men take responsibility for their actions, good or bad. Grown men don't use their wives to trick a man into getting a DNA test. I will never feel sorry for Mike. He does enough of that himself. He doesn't even care how miserable he's making his wife because he's too busy wallowing in self pity.
I chose to accept Dad's and Gramp's love for what it was instead of dwelling on what I didn't have with my biological father. My two older siblings, especially my brother, didn't. They cared very much about getting his approval and attention. It was really sad to watch, but it was their choice.

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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I totally respect the choices that you made and the observations you have about this issue.

We're talking about a movie here and the movie needs to have an arc of development for its characters. Because you made the choices you did, and because you have the maturity you have, your story wouldn't have as dramatic a plot as Mike's. Mike has to start out emotionally arrested and then undergo the challenge of confronting his potential father for us to have an engaged drama.


I also have to say that it's different for a female to contend with missing father figure that it is for a male: it's much more intimate an identity issue for a son to be missing his father than it is for a daughter.

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You know, I would have enjoyed this movie if Mike only had a few minutes of screen time. I think his wife's feeling about him and behavior around him and Tobi showed more truth about Mike than anything he did himself. You could tell how much he hurt her because of his own selfishness. Misery loves company, and he sure kept her down because he refused to "man up." (I hate that phrase, but you know what I mean.) I just couldn't feel any kind of sympathy for him.

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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I feel some sympathy for him because I see him as emotionally arrested and up against becoming a Dad when he'd had none, so his buttons, or those lacking, were being pushed.

Certainly he wasn't appealing and, frankly, I saw this awhile ago now and his scenes are NOT the ones that come to mind. I watched it mainly for Patrick Stewart and was satisfied in that department!.

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I love him! He had me at "baby's ass." LOL!

"Leave me to do my dark bidding on the internet!"

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O! Remind me, pls ~ When was that?

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