Marc and his girlfriend
So marc was straight and happy with his girlfriend all it took was one kiss and boom he falls in love with Kay. I feel something might have been left out.
shareDid you watch this movie or only a trailer?
If you watched it, repeat IF, you understood almost nothing of the storyline.
I haven't more time to waste on this post.
Look *beep* yes I saw the movie more than once, I was saying that they was out in the woods one hand job and then a few scene's later they was having sex. I felt like Marc was happy with his gf then Kay came along. But then again I just wasted my time explaining what I meant on this post.
shareI think the filmmakers' intention with Marc was to present someone who wasn't as "straight" as he appeared to be. And I'm sure even Marc knew he'd experiment with another guy at some point, get it out of his system, then go back to Bettina and resume his happy hetero life.
And initially, that's what he believes has happened; he's met Kay by chance, they've messed around discreetly, and now they'll go back to their separate lives and never see each other again. Which is undoubtedly a relief for Marc, because he enjoyed the encounter more than he thought he would.
The unexpected twist occurs when Kay decides to pursue their relationship by getting himself transferred to Marc's unit - which Marc can't deal with, because he knows he has feelings for Kay & won't be able to keep his hands off him. Which he can't. And when Marc tries to compartmentalize his relationships & keep both of them going, his life goes off the rails.
Well put! 100% agree.
I am tired of charrin my ass on your back burner
I agree with a lot of what you've said, murph, except I don't believe Marc knew he'd experiment with another guy at some point at all. His falling for Kay was totally a bolt out of the blue,hence the turmoil he was in 24/7. Kay was the smart one - he saw something,even just the very vaguest hint, in Marc, before Marc even saw it in himself, and Kay went for it, slowly & subtly. Kay was the world's perfect flirt.
Note how Marc literally jumped back,startled like a springbok, when Kay all but brushed his lips on the edge of the wood, after their first(?) jog together. Also, look at the real,complete shock on Marc's face. Note too Kay's self-assured smirk at Marc's reaction. Perfectly acted by both of course.
But yes, later Marc did think he could keep both on a string, indefinitely, selfish young man that he became. Of course, one never can, if one is to be an honest human being.
I don't believe Marc knew he'd experiment with another guy at some point at all.
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Personally, I find it impossible to believe that Marc NEVER contemplated messing around with another guy before meeting Kay. Just the way he handles himself when they're alone in the rain (when he turns Kay around and places him up against the car) indicates he has a good idea of what's expected of him in a guy-on-guy encounter, and i don't believe this is something he only recently started to think about. He may not be as experienced as Kay, but the way he loses himself in man2man action is a strong indication this is something he always expected to do.
I think he's startled during that first jog with Kay (in the shotgun scene with the joint) because he wasn't expecting something like that to occur at that particular time - and certainly not with another cop. But I agree that his falling for Kay was a bolt out of the blue. I think Marc expected same-sex action would give him a rush of excitement, but I don't believe he was expecting deep personal involvement; I don't believe he was expecting to fall in love. But that's exactly what happens, and this is what creates the intense emotional turmoil he goes through. share
Ok, I am still very sure Marc never gave a single thought to gay sex, but admittedly the seed was deep, deep within him, in his sub-conscious, or Kay would never have persuaded him otherwise, or any other male for that matter. Had Marc been determined at some point in his Life to "go gay" (temporarily of course), then there is little way he would have reacted as startled as he did after the first jog with Kay. Your mentioning Marc having first sex against the car in the forest was, remember, after a considerable flirtation and wooing period with Kay, although we aren't told if that might have been weeks or months.
Had I not been gay, or gay-curious, there is no Hope whatsoever that any guy, however kind or attractive or helpful to me in my Life, would have persuaded me into any relationship, temporary or otherwise. Wouldn't have happened ; in fact, however close we had been, I'd have reported him to the Authorities. But I am gay so that statement is hypothetical.
Yes, seems we'll agree to disagree. Open to comments from other posters now!
Had I not been gay, or gay-curious, there is no Hope whatsoever that any guy, however kind or attractive or helpful to me in my Life, would have persuaded me into any relationship, temporary or otherwise. Wouldn't have happened ; in fact, however close we had been, I'd have reported him to the Authorities.
And the fact that Marc DIDN'T report Kay to the authorities after their "joint" mouth2mouth encounter - and then noticed his absence from the academy the following week and very publicly inquired if he was still registered - is a very good indicator of just how "gay curious" Marc already was. share
Reasonable point, but had Marc reported Kay, any later investigations might have cast shadows of doubt over Marc too. That's the last thing he would have wanted. He did enquire about Kay,true, but that needn't have been an indicator of his own gay-curiosity, just asking where a once regularly seen face had gone. We have all enquired about not seeing someone around the office or workplace when not seen for some time, but that is no indicator we like or dislike the person, only our idle curiosity. As far as I remember no eyebrows were raised when Marc did ask.
Had Marc been at all gay-curious, then surely Kay would never have needed to flirt & woo with him for so long, suffering rebuff after rebuff, and no early or visible sign of interest? As I mentioned in a previous post, we are all left to guess how long Kay pursued Marc so diligently - my feelings were it was over at least 2-3 months, perhaps longer. Despite my attraction to a man,and considering myself determined in love (lust?), I would have long given up on Marc and moved on. Massive credits to Kay for persistence and dedication.
Reasonable point, but had Marc reported Kay, any later investigations might have cast shadows of doubt over Marc too. That's the last thing he would have wanted
It would have been the last thing he wanted ONLY if he had something to hide, such as a same-sex curiosity. If he were 100% straight & had never contemplated a same-sex relationship before, nothing would have stopped him from reporting Kay.
But he didn't.
Which of course indicates that Marc was exceedingly gay-curious & interested (at some point) in same-sex action. I think what throws him in "Free Fall" is that he expected it would happen on his terms & at a time he was ready for it. And along comes Kay, a fellow cop and power bottom who drives the action & forces the issue at a rather inconvenient moment - for Marc, anyway.
Additionally, Marc's very public inquiry about Kay's whereabouts (at the Academy) is information for the FILMGOER; it tells us just how much Kay is on his mind.
my feelings were it was over at least 2-3 months, perhaps longer.
I think Bettina's condition makes that unlikely. Her term of pregnancy is already quite advanced when Marc first meets Kay, and she's still pregnant when Kay re-enters Marc's life. I think we're looking at about a month, tops.
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Reasonable points again.
Due my focus on Marc & Kay, had slipped my mind that Bettina's pregnancy was quite well advanced(6 months?),so your guess of a month or so, might not be wide of the mark.
I would only add that even a completely heterosexual guy would not want the smallest risk of aspersions being cast on him due any relationship/friendship with a gay man in a work environment. However innocent,some mud always sticks! It shouldn't of course, but alas, it does in Life. Gossip would have been rife along the lines of, "no smoke without fire" and Marc would have been horrified had that reached the ears of Bettina and indeed his own family. It takes a man supremely confident in his own heterosexuality to socialise openly,frequently & closely with active gay men. Most men are not as sexually self-confident as they like to appear ; that is changing now, in 2016, but it will take several years yet to change mindsets, and finally, how does anyone help make a human being self-confident? Sometimes, it doesn't happen. C'est la vie et vive la difference! :)
Well, when it comes to reporting someone for predatory & unwanted sexual advances, I'm sure the situation varies from individual to individual. But that isn't t an issue here. In the specific case of "Free Fall," I don't think there's any evidence that Marc never contemplated a same-sex relationship before meeting Kay. He's understandably caught off guard by Kay's determination and lack of inhibition, but his actions (once the ice has been broken between them) indicate that a relationship like this was practically inevitable. Even Kay seems surprised by Marc's take-charge attitude in the rain; he has an unmistakable "wow-this-is-more-than-I hoped-for" look on his face.
I think what Marc DIDN'T expect and NEVER contemplated was falling in love with another man - which is exactly what happens.
A relationship was all but inevitable due Kay's determination, persistence, and as you have remarked, his complete lack of inhibition. No idea about you & other posters on here, but I'd have been long gone, suffering rebuff after stony rebuff. (I say that as consider I am quite determined in any potential relationship).
The look on Kay's face that first time in the rain came across to me more as a smirk of the spider catching the evasive fly in his web!
Marc fell in love because he was completely bowled over by this human being's strength of feeling towards him ; Kay's love was an express train, a man on a mission, taking no prisoners, focused on his goal to the exclusion of all else. Who wouldn't be drawn in? How many have been the recipients of such total love from another, outside closest family? I'll tell you, not many.
This affair was Alexander & Hephaestion all over again ; poor Bettina didn't stand a chance.
A relationship was all but inevitable due Kay's determination, persistence, and as you have remarked, his complete lack of inhibition...Kay's love was an express train, a man on a mission, taking no prisoners, focused on his goal to the exclusion of all else. Who wouldn't be drawn in?
However, I don't think any relationship happens unless both parties are agreeable to it. Kay may be the driving force here, but that doesn't mean Marc can't say "no" if he wants; it's not as if Kay has put a gun to his head. Marc can either accept or reject a relationship with Kay, and he chooses to accept it. He might be uncomfortable about the timing of what's happening - after all, he's moved in with Bettina and she's expecting his child - but I don't see him as a victim without any say in the matter. After all, when Kay suggests (after the jiujitsu sequence) they can still go jogging together, Marc accepts. And when they get together on that rainy afternoon, Marc is the one who initiates sexual contact between them - not Kay.
And Kay remind him of this in their confrontation following Kay's gay bar incident -
MARC: Did I ask you to come here and fu*k up my life?
KAY: Did I make you to suck my co*k?
And Marc has no answer, because he knows Kay is right; Kay didn't MAKE him do anything. Marc was a very willing participant in everything that's happened between them.
The look on Kay's face that first time in the rain came across to me more as a smirk of the spider catching the evasive fly in his web!
A smirk? That's something I don't see at all; I see the face of someone whose dreams have just come true. It's an expression we see on Kay's face again when they're making love (right before Kay gives Marc the key to his apartment). share
Of course you are right, in that a relationship takes two to make things tick, but consider yet again the number of times Marc rebuffed Kay. I've lost count! (And his no wasn't a psychological yes!). Marc was willing, finally,repeat finally, but how long did it take the guy to get there? He was almost browbeaten into it!
Btw, haven't any other posters views on this worthwhile post?
There was a lot said and too much for me to reply to each post, so I'm sticking it all in one.
The scenes in the film were only snippets. A lot more happened before and between the scenes. Taken in that context, we don't know everything that happened. We were shown only specific periods in time. With no beginning or end either. We were thrown into the story when Kay and Marc had already been rooming together for who knows how long.
It's extremely possible for a person to be happy with, even love, more than one person at a time. It's very black and white to say he was happy and straight with Bettina but then happy and gay with Kay. That doesn't mean he loved Bettina any more or less. He still loved Bettina. It's just that he loved Kay more. Enough to let it turn his whole life upside down. Life and love can be a very gray area. It's not so cut and dry as that.
Marc had to have at least thought about sex with a man at some point in his life. Thoughts don't mean anything though. They're just mental fantasies. We all have thoughts about things that we'd never in million years do. Or never in a million years get to do. Of course Kay needed to flirt with and woo Marc. Curious or not, Marc was in a relationship and clearly a monogamous one. He also didn't seem the type to readily cheat.
Marc showed signs of interest though. Minute and subtle, yes, but they were definitely there. Marc was antagonistic toward Kay from the start. Some of us guys can be antagonistic toward someone, in that way, we genuinely like. Why we do this, I have no idea. I've been very guilt of this. I couldn't explain it if I tried. Kay had to have had an inkling that's what was going on.
Which was why Kay continued to pursue. He didn't consider Marc a dead end. At the very least he'd have some fun and move on. Their initial interactions were not about love, but sex. Like might've been there, definitely not love. Love developed for and between both men unexpectedly. I do not think Kay expected that to happen either.
Marc was surprised not by the reality or another man, but by the fact that it was Kay. Surprised by himself. Surprised by when and where and how it was happening. Despite what transpired between them initially, he didn't really expect it to get that far. It was also out of his control. More than anything, Marc liked to have control. That's what was probably the most difficult and terrifying. He had little control over it.
Freier Fall was not a gay coming out story. It was a story about a man who felt trapped in his own life. His feeling trapped was, like the film, about much, much more. Sexuality may have been a very, very small component. Kay was Marc's catalyst. That did not make it about sexuality either. The film was ambiguous in all respects which was one of the things that made it so great.
If we have to label it, which I don't think we do, Marc is BISEXUAL. One experience or relationship with someone of a different sex than you're usually attracted to does NOT change your sexuality. You still are who you are. Marc's struggle wasn't with sexuality by the way, notice. Other people questioned it but he didn't. His turmoil came from loving someone other than Bettina and how it was tearing that life apart. Sex or gender of the person didn't matter.
Sexuality is a social construct anyway. A label people put on things. People are uncomfortable with ambiguity. They want to be able to categorize everyone and everything. Sexuality is on a continuum though. Some people are totally straight or totally gay. Which leaves a whole lot of people in between. Whether leaning more toward one side or another, or smack dab in the middle.
I think bisexuals particularly make people uncomfortable because somehow our existence challenges the idea of being born that way. Even though we have no control over who we love either. We're expected to choose a side, which is ridiculous. Or people make assumptions, dismiss one side of our sexuality as experimenting, or some other damn thing. Like it isn't even there, erased. We're accused of being greedy. But a cheater is a cheater is a cheater. The sexuality of the cheater has nothing to do with it.
Yep, I'm going to keep hammering that one into the ground and pissing people off. I despise bi-erasure, particularly in the queer community, and refuse to contribute to it. - Just because I'm not gay doesn't mean I'm straight, just because I'm not straight doesn't mean I'm gay. -
Good to read another angle on this thread.
We aren't to know Marc ever thought about sex with another guy but all is possible. I am sure most young guys, by far the greatest majority, have wondered what gay sex is like, what happens, what the feelings are, but would never act on these thoughts, due peer pressure or society pressures.
I remain unconvinced that early in the friendship Marc showed signs of interest in Kay. I believe any possible signs were only signs of a friendship growing between the two men, and Kay picked up on these, as we all do, in the hope he could develop it all to beyond a run of the mill friendship. He did of course, but what a struggle and a half to achieve what he wanted. Determination beyond the ordinary, for sure.
Indulging curiosity seems to be changing though. At least in US culture. No, of course it's not cool with dudebros still, probably. However, my Gen X generation and younger generations have a gradually, progressively evolving attitude toward sexuality, among many other things. Even so far as a giving it a go once.
In fact, the younger generations are much more accepting of the fluidity of sex and gender and relationships. More and more it's less of a big deal, for instance, that this guy was with this girl but now he's with this other guy, or she's with some other girl. Hell, it's not uncommon for these youngsters to make out with someone of the same sex if they're straight, or opposite sex if they're gay, just for the fun of it.
So, considering that Marc and Kay are about my age, or less than ten years younger anyway, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. To consider it and possibly plan to try it out if the opportunity ever arose. Of course it wasn't a constant in Marc's mind but it was probably a passing curiosity at least.
Yes, we're shown the nasty homophobic side of things with the character Limpinski, but none of the other officers really gave a damn one way or another. Even Frank didn't seem to care much other than that his friend Marc was obviously going through some serious sh!t.
Ah, see, I totally saw signs of interest in Marc right from the get go. If I were Kay I would've known to go for it. Or at least push it a little further. The worst that could've happened was his efforts were for naught and all that came out of it was friendship. But it could also work out too. Kay had a 50/50 chance of it leading to something.
Yes, Kay's behavior certainly progressed over time. But look at Kay's flirting/teasing Marc when they're smoking pot outside the building after their fight during the training exercise. Look at the way Kay stared after Marc when he got out of the pool and Marc's look back. Oh yeah. There was interest alright.
Especially after the stolen kiss following that bit of smoking pot in the woods. That's when Kay really ramped up his efforts. Because he had proof of Marc's interest. By then they'd already been playing their little game for a while there though anyway. Kay would not have kissed him for the hell of it if he didn't think there was even the slightest possibility of something with Marc.
You are 10000% right. I re watched it and after reading your statement it all make's sense so thank you for explaining.
shareThis might be in reference to my post? If it is, then - Thanks! Glad I could clarify/explain, even if from my own point of view. :)
shareHaha. Yes it is. Its nice to see it from someone else point of view and your view helped me understand. I was starting to think that I was putting too much thought into it. But thanks!!
shareThank you murph24 for explaining it to me. I agree 100% with everything you said. Hopefully free fall 2 will just as good as the first one.
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