MovieChat Forums > '71 (2014) Discussion > Spoiler: implausibilities

Spoiler: implausibilities


Generally I liked the film but I have a problem in particular with the script's handling of Boyle, the senior IRA man, which I find implausible.

1) He is collaborating with the British Army, so it is unbelievable that he would tell his juniors to stand down in their efforts to capture a British soldier as it would expose him. It's the gangland equivalent of an FBI mole in the mafia leadership telling his foot-soldiers NOT to whack a bent cop when they have a golden opportunity to do so. It's too screamingly obvious.

This said, IRA protocol may indeed have required him to tell his juniors to stick to their orders rather than go after targets of opportunity, meaning that his argument that he's maintaining discipline could be convincing: however, this would need to be spelled out better for the audience, and anyway if it were true that his actions were in keeping with IRA policy then that would in turn remove the plausibility of his juniors perceiving his behavior as collaborationist.

2) There's no explanation about when and how Quinn works out that Boyle is a collaborator. The only clues the script gives us to go on is (i) Quinn's suspicion after Boyle's order for him to stand down and (ii) Boyle's comment to his juniors that he'll be "unable to protect" them if they continue to disobey orders. Presumably, Quinn interpreted that comment as Boyle inadvertently letting on that he had some kind of unusual ability to protect his men from the British, therefore Boyle had to be working for the British. But there is no moment when we the audience are shown this interpretation by Boyle's juniors. The perfect opportunity to show this would be when Boyle's juniors are walking away from meeting him in the pub and one accuses him of lying, although it appeared to me that they were referring to Boyle lying about not being responsible for the bomb in the Protestant pub. Rather, one should have said to the other, "What kind of a commanding officer stops his men from capturing the enemy?" And the reply: "Only a commanding officer who is working for the enemy." Still, even though this would make the chain of events more plausible, it wouldn't solve the implausibility of Boyle's overtly collaborationist behavior in the first place.

3) Once the British soldier is found, Boyle immediately calls his British Army contact to hand him over. But he has no motivation for handing over the British soldier other than to ask the British (who he doesn't entirely trust) to kill Quinn. He would more easily have ordered Quinn executed by the IRA himself, on cooked up charges of collaboration. And why take yet another risk of unmasking himself to his juniors by arranging for the handover of the British soldier? It's implausibly stupid behavior.

4) He arrives with the British to pick up the soldier, which is an open declaration to the Catholic community that he is a traitor. Why would he do this? Not only does it give him an immediate death sentence from the entire IRA and ostracizes him from the entire Catholic community, it is also completely unnecessary - the British could easily have picked up their soldier alone (it's not like they had ever used locals to politely knock on the door rather than smashing it down). Implausible.

5) All of this begs the question - what is the purpose for the plot that the juniors suspect that Boyle is a collaborator? It appears the only value that the suspicion has is that it motivates them to follow him - as it turns out, to the soldier's hiding place. But really, that's like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The panicking family could easily have called BOTH Boyle and Quinn to the scene, removing all of this implausible and unnecessary plot-line of Quinn suspecting Boyle.

6) Finally, another implausible plot point is that the British covert operations unit would attempt to murder a British soldier for the sole reason that he witnessed them supplying Protestant terrorists with a bomb destined for the IRA. In the real world, the soldier would be briefed that he had witnessed a classified operation in support of his tour of duty and that as a matter of national security he has to speak about it to no-one or face court martial and jail. Moreover, the murder of the soldier was surely going to be pinned on the IRA, but it came in the form of strangulation; this was totally pointless when there was an IRA gun in the room, especially given that the IRA executed with a bullet to the head, never by way of strangulation. And to cap it all, why does the British covert operations unit intent on murdering a British soldier invite the British Army along for the ride? Even though they are told to keep their distance, it's still an idiotic risk of exposure that covert operations operatives who happen to be premeditated murderers with rat-like cunning simply do not take.

I'd very much welcome comments, especially if someone can persuade me that I'm wrong and all of this is in fact plausible. That will make my second viewing much more enjoyable. By the way, I like the film a lot, which is why I'm nit-picking.

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Didnt they follow Boyle because they were going to kill him? And so discover that he works with the brits...

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That wasn't clear for me that they were following him to kill him, but you may well be right. But in which case, why did they decide to kill him? Simply because he told them to stand down from searching for the Brit soldier? Isn't that implausible?

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WHen we first see Boyle in the movie we instantly notice tension between Boyle and Quinn.
I would say that they have been arguing for some time and Quinn is just fed up. That`s the feeling I got. And when Boyle told them to do nothing and threatened him, that was just the last straw for Quinn.

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I think the movie can be quite confusing at times if you don't know a lot about The Troubles.

1) Quinn and the youngsters are not really Boyle's juniors. Boyle is a member of the Official IRA (OIRA) while Quinn and his men are members of the Provisional IRA (the Provos).

(Around 1969 the IRA split into the Official IRA and the Provisional IRA. In the years prior The Troubles had increased with a lot of sectarian violence, and there were disagreements inside IRA on how to meet the violence from the protestants. A very short and slightly easy explanation is that the OIRA didn't want too much violence and wanted to use weapons only as a defence. The Provos however wanted an offensive and active use of weapons. (Like I said, this is an easy explanation as the OIRA did seek out active violence against soldiers at times and the Provos initially wanted an defensive use as well). The OIRA and the Provos were involved in some feuds with each other. Around the time of the IRA split, the OIRA and the Provos were roughly equal in numbers and support, but as the violence esqualated the Provos greatly increased their numbers and support. At the time of the movie - late '71 - the Provos were the most powerful. Like Brigid (the doctor's daughter) says when her father calls Boyle; "we should get Quinn, it's his neighbourhood now).

Boyle isn't opposed to killing the soldiers because he has a 'relationship' with the Brits, he's opposed to it because of the OIRA's stance and because of the retaliation he fears from the soldiers. Like he says; "this will make the army come back and knock down every door". So Quinn and his men are not surprised by Boyle not agreeing with killing the soldiers, they know it's the view of the OIRA/Boyle.

2) In my opinion Quinn isn't aware and never suspects Boyle talking with the Brits until we see it at the end of the movie. I can't remember exactly what was said in the pub, but I think the "unable to protect" comment is Boyle threatening Quinn with the OIRA. Boyle is older and from the 'old' IRA so still sees - or at least wants to see - himself as the most important of the two. If Quinn doesn't stop 'acting up' Boyle basically says he will not be able to protect Quinn from the OIRA killing him. When Quinn and his man are walking away from the pub and accusing Boyle of lying they are referring to the bomb in the pub, and Quinn says; "we'll get the guns, and then we'll kill him" (him = Boyle). They are following Boyle because they're going to kill him. Why exactly they want Boyle dead isn't said straight out, but it's probably a mix between the feud between the OIRA and the Provos, Quinn being offended at being told what to do when he's now actually the most powerful, Quinn being offended at being threathened (and possibly fearing Boyle will try to kill him anyway) and Quinn being mad at Boyle for scolding them over "only" killing a soldier when they believe Boyle has done something far worse himself - planting a bomb that killed innocent civilians and children.

3) Like I wrote further up the page; Boyle has no motivation for killing the soldier and therefore calls the undercover Brits to come and get him. I'm not quite sure why Boyle wants the undercovers to kill Quinn instead of doing it himself. Probably because the undercovers can do it in a way/place that will make it obvious it was the army who did it. If Boyle does it himself the Provos will probably suspect him and kill him. Or the OIRA wouldn't support the killing of Quinn and therefore remove Boyle as a leader.

4) Since the Brits are undercover I'm guessing it's meant to be seen as if very few are actually aware they're British soldiers and therefore Boyle can be reasonably safe when walking around with them. The doctor can't say anything to anyone as he's already helped the soldier. The reason Boyle goes with them? Maybe because the doctor and his daughter wouldn't open the door to the Brits alone, but only if Boyle was with them? Maybe the Brits wanted Boyle to go with them because walking with Boyle would mean no one would come up to them bothering them, wondering who they were?

5) Like I said, I don't think Quinn and his men ever suspect Boyle. They follow him simply to kill him. As for the family calling Boyle or Quinn. The doctor calls Boyle because he knows he probably won't kill the soldier. The daughter wants to call Quinn because "this is his neighbourhood now". She knows if people were to find out they helped the soldier it would be up to Quinn and not Boyle to decide their fate. The father however doesn't want to call Quinn because "they'll kill the soldier, there's no talking to these young lads".

6) I don't know enough about the structure in the British army to know how plausible killing the soldier is. Your explanation certainly seems most plausible. But even if the undercovers have higher ranks, they're not on the same 'team'. Maybe they feared they could not be 100% sure the soldier would keep quiet no matter how much they ordered him to do so. When the lieutenant introduces himself to his men doesn't he say something along the lines of "if you have a problem you can always come to me"? If the soldier still decided to tell his lieutenant who'd then tell his CO (which is what he did at the end), the army might decide to look into it and then the undercovers could face court martial and life in prison. Maybe the chance of that happening was simply a risk they didn't dear face? But yes, the IRA would've shot him, not strangled him.

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SherryDarling,

Thank you for an exemplary and very generous response. You've made many great points. What's your background, by the way?

While I had been aware of the factionalization of the Republican movement, I certainly hadn't noticed in the film that there was a clear distinction made between Boyle as OIRA and Quinn as PIRA. This would clarify a lot indeed - but is it specifically mentioned in the film?

It's an interesting aesthetic choice that the authors clearly made: not to provide too much exposition. Indeed, it might have detracted from the thrilling pace. But I think the result is too much confusion, which is intrusive and distracting. I think just a few more dialogue lines of very efficient and understated exposition would have really helped.

As to the strangulation scene, maybe the undercover MRF man could have checked his gun and then held it Hood's head, whispering something like "One [bullet] left... for the man who stuck his nose into my business." Being on his last bullet would explain why he only single-tapped the PIRA man nearby, and it would be enough for everyone to know he was about to murder Hood.

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SherryDarling

RE:

1) Great bit of background there. The faction between the OIRA and PIRA explains a lot of tension and power struggle between Quinn and Boyle.

2) I think the "unable to protect you" line speaks to past attempts at working together on a common cause despite differing ideologies on how to gain Irish independence. The shooting of the British soldier by Quinn's guy will bring about major repercussions by the British, OIRA and even some of the PIRA. Boyle can't stop that or provide any protection for Quinn.

3) Boyle offers return of the soldier (Hook) in exchange for the Brit (Cpt Browning) killing Quinn. This would help Boyle by stopping Quinn from causing more trouble for the OIRA. It also ensures it can't be tied to Boyle if anyone on the Irish side suspects him of killing Quinn because of the dispute they were having in the pub.

6) I found the strangulation and ending a bit confusing on first watch, but more clear on the second viewing. I suspect the British wanted to cover-up their involvement in the pub bomb explosion - Hook did see the bomb on the table. Why he (Lewis) chose to strangle him doesn't ring true, he could have used the kid's gun if he was worried about it being traced to his gun.

The perverse "review" process at the end where they re-write history to ensure none of the senior ranks are held accountable is quite believable. The senior officer (Major, I assume) was willing to accept Browning's version of the events even though he wasn't even in the room when it happened, he had his gun in Quinn's face at the time. They could have wrapped it up nice and neat by bringing Hook up on charges of being AWOL just to be sure they had someone to pin it on. In that sense they gave him a break I guess.

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They could have wrapped it up nice and neat by bringing Hook up on charges of being AWOL just to be sure they had someone to pin it on. In that sense they gave him a break I guess.




now that is scary. i can sort of see it happening but that would have been very anti-army.

i think the movie did a nice job of not vilifying any party overly. but of course the power relations were intact after this terrible day.

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[deleted]

i really enjoy your nitpicking because you like something! too often people seem to think that loving a film (or whatever) means you have to accept it no matter.

i think the lack of exposition has caused me problems understanding as well. in the end, what i get from your questions and my own was that these people are also emotional beings. i don't think their actions have to be absolutely logical. one of the things that i found exciting as well, was to see this as the beginning of the troubles and to feel that these people didn't know where they were heading.

often i think films play history out as if everyone already knows the outcome, i felt '71 didn't do this. it felt immediate and scary and fresh in that. these people were living then and they didn't understand everything and the consequences of their actions.

or maybe they did. what do i know.

so, the lack of exposition means that i had to go and learn more about the different factions and piece it together more. i think some things you criticise have to do with plot contrivance. the strangling, i thought, had to do with how there's a gun pointed to hook for ages and then you have somebody else do the same... it'd get a bit silly, i guess in the scene. and the drama would dissipate.

likewise i thought why doesn't he get killed earlier. and is that even realistic? but if he had, we would have been deprived of all the fab chasing. it's a tough call 

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The entire film is a fairy tale save the first quarter of an hour.

my vote history:
http://www.imdb.com/user/ur13767631/ratings

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You are pretty much spot on. The plot is ludicrous

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You make some good points, but I also think you see some things too much in 'black and white.'

There are numerous examples and reasons why someone in Boyle's position might prevent his subordinates from killing either the soldier or someone else they distrusted. (I'm a bit confused by the 'bent cop' reference because you would think a 'bent cop' would be on their side as opposed to a straight cop.)

I think there was no love lost between Quinn and Boyle to begin with, so it wouldn't take much to pretend to sniff out a 'traitor' or to even believe it (although Boyle is not a traitor but someone who has an arrangement of convenience with his opposite number). Before the movie starts, there's a prologue of text which describes how the younger IRA faction (Provisional IRA) is much more violent than the older, more established faction. I think that's the only dynamic that really applies to the movie. I don't think Quinn specifically suspects Boyle of collaboration.

I do think that Boyle might have been smarter to arrange it in such a way that the MRF has to kill Quinn before handing over the soldier. He could even arrange to have Quinn be at the meet and have him killed 'accidentally.'

Arriving with the others to pick up the soldier is something of a risk; but remember, again, I don't think it is beyond belief that a senior IRA member would do that or that the MRF would be instantly recognized as Protestants (after all, the soldiers were some distance away). It's only when that whole thing gets violent that their identities become apparent. But some of it is covered by the fact that we see the incredible fear and power that Boyle and others have to apply. Normal civilians would likely accept the explanation and not necessarily spread it around, for fear of retaliation.

I agree with that last point. There seem like too many other ways to solve that problem, but I suspect that Lewis and the head of the MRF are both somewhat unstable (as are Boyle, Quinn, etc.). They may have gone for the 'easiest' and quickest solution, before thinking it through.

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