This never happened - '71 (2014) Discussion

[–] faunsix 10 years ago

Right, because it's only the US that enters in to conflicts (and loses them.)
You knucklehead.

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

@faunsix Woaaahh you don't gotta call me names.I am being civil so you could return the favor.I didn't deny that the "Troubles" or whatever its called happened. I was saying the incident of a single soldier in a hostile city being surrounded and hunted by angry mobs/militia in Northern Ireland never occurred or at least wasn't reported.

It mirrors what happened to US soldiers in Mogadishu is what I was trying to say. So calm down. Oh by the way we did not lose in Somalia.

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[–] lucy-loo1 10 years ago

The fact that you say "the troubles or whatever it's called" suggests you don't have much knowledge of what happened in Ireland during this time. No one who lived through that time or has a lot of knowledge would say "or whatever it's called" I''m afraid.

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[–] Reminisce_PartOne 10 years ago

Nobody involved in the production of the film said that this did happen, so what is the problem?

Also, how did you/the US not lose in Mogadishu when 20+ young American men died brutal deaths for literally nothing? I suppose your perception of loss and my perception of loss differ from each other.

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[–] Ghosthunter123424 9 years ago

It's presenting a story in a manner that people viewing it will find realistic enough to be perceived as accurate.

Not only did it not happen, but it couldn't have happened like that.

Plain clothed soldiers tried to gatecrash a funeral and were discovered, stripped and beaten to death, but that would make for a very short film.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] pjpoconnell 9 years ago

Ghosthunter: Could you give details on the "funeral gatecrashing" incident that you refer to? I'd like to know more.

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[–] Tess-tastic 9 years ago

I can help out here. Here's a link to the incident in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporals_killings. I've read it trhough and it's accurate to the best of my memory.

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[–] Nicols 9 years ago

The Battle of Mogadishu was part of Operation Gothic Serpent. The objective of this operation was to capture Mohamed Farrah Aidid. The US failed to accomplish this objective. Sounds like a loss to me.

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[–] Sir_Digby_Chicken_Ceasar 9 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporals_killings

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[–] cinesimonj 9 years ago

In other words, you've not spent any serious time reading about The Troubles - therefore, you know every single incident that ever happened.

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[–] dtlendvaj 9 years ago

I dont think this movie is a documentary or based on true facts. Doesnt say anywhere I think. Or does it?

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[–] joewritesonasia 9 years ago

This from a country where most citizens could not pinpoint Belfast on a World Atlas ... or Paris, Madrid, Rome etc etc etc.

The events depicted are not based on one single scenario, but many over quite a few conflicts.

Not every movie is a 'copy' of an American one, bet THAT news floored you!

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

@joewritesonasia Most Europeans can't point out Washington D.C., Dallas, New York etc. on a map and these cities are just as important if not more. Your point?

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[–] joewritesonasia 9 years ago

Your 'just as important if not more' statement says it all, important to who?

Oh and yes, not only can I pinpoint all of those cities, I can name the states of America from memory and most of your presidents.

May come as surprise to you but 'most Europeans' are well aware of World Geography and other cultures.

We do have one little quirk though, when we describe something or a competition as 'World' we traditionally include other countries in the event.

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[–] ronfirv 9 years ago

Correct, Joe.
I have worked with many Americans (in ME) and although many were good guys, their knowledge of other cultures and geography was abysmal. Worse, they made little attempt to understand other cultures. A pity, as I repeat, friendly and hospitable guys.

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[–] joewritesonasia 9 years ago

Spot on observation. I agree 100%. A quick look through Youtube will reveal exactly how many Americans consider Australia as part of the 'Axis of Evil' and think that Paris is the Capital of Europe.

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[–] ronfirv 9 years ago

Little wonder they are so unpopular abroad. Their cultural errors can become cringe-worthy. I am a Brit, and we sometimes get things wrong but most of us try and learn a little. The perception is the USA believes all can be settled by threatening with a gun - I like to call it Wild West recidivism! Unfortunately, the perception is enough to create the problem.
I feel for them, as I worked with many in their Military in the Gulf and their hospitality to us Brits was outstanding However, the remedy is in their own hands.

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[–] Sidewindr 9 years ago

I have worked with many Americans (in ME) and although many were good guys, their knowledge of other cultures and geography was abysmal. Worse, they made little attempt to understand other cultures. A pity, as I repeat, friendly and hospitable guys.

This is quite by design, the US Government for years has hobbled education and encouraged isolationist philosophies and teachings etc. This is the best way to create a a society fanatical about patriotism, after all if you have no idea about the rest of the world then you must be the greatest place on earth as that is all you know and have been taught.

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[–] TRinzler 9 years ago

Noam Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent" should be on the school curriculum reading list!

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[–] bryanmillsfist 9 years ago

Ugh. Hell no. Chomsky is an arch-propagandist. The best propagandists are those who study it. Any sentient being should know that.

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[–] TRinzler 9 years ago

Do you even know what it is about?

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[–] bryanmillsfist 9 years ago

That’s actually untrue. Americans have long been more self-absorbed than many other nations.This isn’t a recent phenomenon nor is it the result of government malfeasance. What you just wrote is pure grade *beep*

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[–] Sidewindr 9 years ago

I never said nor implied it to be a recent phenomenon .. and such tactics have been used by those in power all throughout history.

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[–] bryanmillsfist 9 years ago

As an American who has interacted with people from around the globe on the internet I can say that the “world” is as ignorant of different cultures as Americans are.

The assumption that Europeans or British are any less ignorant is a myth. Ignorance is an universal trait.

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[–] TRinzler 9 years ago

When you consider the media resources available (via Internet, TV, Radio, Newspapers etc.) when compared to poorer, less developed countries the US population should be proportionality better informed of current affairs and what is happening around the world. This is not the case.

When cycling around Cuba with an Indian friend of mine a local asked her where she was from then asked what she thought about Indira Gandhi's tenure as P.M.

Other countries have to keep up to date with what the world's powers do because it also affects them. This is also the case with non-english speaking countries. The reverse is not true.

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[–] ttaskmaster 9 years ago

As an American who has interacted with people from around the globe on the internet I can say that the “world” is as ignorant of different cultures as Americans are.

Being ignorant of a culture and simply choosing to ignore them are two different things though...!! 

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[–] Chiffmonkey 9 years ago

Pretty sure we can. Might have issues with some states but that's only because we don't have any reason to care.

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[–] kmd11 8 years ago

Your comment is ignorant and elitist. I am American and can pinpoint Belfast on a map probably with my eyes closed, along with the other cities you list.

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[–] tarrant-132-638837 10 years ago

There were numerous incidents like this in Belfast over the years. Do your homework...

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

Talk about putting two feet into it...............

Clearly not a Brit. "The Troubles or whatever" - mind-blowing ignorance. To all intents these "troubles" were a hair's breadth from a civil war.
Similarly, I still can't understand why the Falklands war is often said to be a "Conflict", and the Malayan "troubles" referred to as "the Confrontation" (with Indonesia) or Konfrontasi if some prefer, in Malay. Talk about euphemisms!

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

I never said I was from the UK. I am from Texas.I shouldn't have said "Troubles or whatever its called". Looking back now it was insensitive. What I really meant to say was the Northern Irish conflict.

I don't see how my post was ignorant. Can any of you show me a single link to an article reporting an incident of a single soldier or even a small group of soldiers cut off from their unit and chased and surrounded in Belfast by hostile mobs/milita???? No? ....... hmmmm thought so.

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[–] Theo Robertson 10 years ago

Oh you're American ? That explains a lot .

There was at least one soldier killed in a similar circumstance of the film as seen here

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2011-06-20c.135.0

The topic was also brought up in this thread

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2614684/board/thread/233676032

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] lucy-loo1 10 years ago

If you're American, you hardly have all the facts on British issues, except for those who've done their research properly. Your comment "the troubles or whatever" wasn't so much insensitive, it showed you up as not having that much knowledge

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

People called that conflict using different names. The Irish nationalists called it the Northern Irish Conflict and the British call it "Troubles". I told y'all I did not mean to be facetious.

I mean seriously you Europeans need to calm down and stop getting your panties in a twist about these things damn lol. I have read about the conflict in my spare time, I didn't just randomly come to this board to say stuff.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

First off, I'm not European, but British.
You ask we calm down - this was a horrific period to live through, week in, week out, with appalling injuries and loss of life on all sides, men, women and children. You weren't in UK but many many miles away and you have no idea, that's right no idea of the trauma of these sad and troubling times.
I suggest you bow out before you dig yourself a bigger hole and make a complete fool of yourself by your silly ill-informed comments.
I have never been in Ireland but live in UK and believe me I remember clearly these times as was then a very young adult.
"LOL" - pathetic.

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

Last I checked Britain is located in Europe and part of the EU. So much for calling me ignorant.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

Feelings against the EU are extremely high in UK right now, to the point the UK will pull out in all likelihood. Most Brits don't regard themselves as European, not a label we are entirely happy with, regardless of the fact we are islands off that tiny continent.
If you were truly abreast of political affairs in my country, you would know this.

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

"islands off that tiny continent" lol how big do you think the UK is? . I don't have to be fully abreast of the present day identity crisis/arrogance of the British to state something about the violent aspects of the Northern Irish conflict which ended almost 20 years ago.

Fat chance the UK will pull out of the EU. With the state of the UK's economy they need all the trade benefits and tariff reductions/removal that memberships brings. They dodged the bullet with Scotland independence referendum. Do you know how much the economy of the UK will be affected if they pull out and with their present economic state? hmmmmm please.

My two cents, the British need to forget the good old days of jolly empire. Face it y'all cant survive alone. Socialism don't work sorry guys.

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[–] Theo Robertson 10 years ago

What's socialism got to do with it ?

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

@Theo If you carefully look at your economic and government policies its become more socialist in recent times.

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[–] Theo Robertson 10 years ago

I'm not having a go at you Miles but what makes you think British government policy is in anyway socialist . Only yesterday a government minister was discussing getting rid of the national mininmum wage for disabled workers

You might claim having a minimum wage in the first place is a socialist ideal but it's not necessarily so . I do believe some American states have a minimum wage but I doubt if these states would describe themselves as socialist in anyway

Of course Gordon Brown's government bailed out the banks a few years ago with taxpayers money but this seemed more like a failure of capitalism and the government having to do something practical than any socialist ideal . In fact for the last two decades there has been a burning resentment that The Labour Party is a slightly different version of The Conservative Party rather than a social democratic party , never mind a socialist one .

It's also interesting you mentioned the Scottish referendum and this came about because up here in Scotland centre leftists like myself stopped voting for the Labour Party a generation ago and instead voted for The Scottish National Party ( SNP ). It was because of the SNP majority in the devolved Scottish parliament that the referendum took place . I voted NO as did 55 per cent of the electorate but I did feel great pride in that everyone was friendly in the build up to the vote . I quite happily stop to talk to YES campaigners and discuss the arguments for and against . You wouldn't get campaigners for the Democratic Unionist Party walking up the Falls Road and you wouldn't get Sinn Fein campaigning in the Shankhill . Don't know about Scotland The Brave but we were all part of Scotland The Sensible up to and including the vote last month

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

@Theo. I like your post. Very informative.

I said Britain was turning socialist because I heard that the UK has extensive welfare and unemployment benefit programs like the Scandinavian countries do. I confess I haven't done much research on it but do recall reading an article on it.

Can you tell me why you guys stopped voting for the Labor Party and began voting for the SNP? Was it due to any major policy shifts? Just curious.

Its nice to hear the referendum took place in an amiable setting as you described.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] Theo Robertson 10 years ago

I'll happily answer your question Miles

First of all the welfare bill is so high for a couple of reasons . As someone single and unemployed is unemployed they get £73 per week jobsekkers allowance . They also qualify for housing benefit . A two bedroom flat in Edinburgh will cost over £600pw but because the rents are so high many other low paid people will qualify for housing benefit . The government recently introduced " the bedroom tax " meaning a cut in housing benefit for single occupants but becauses there's hardly any single bedroom flats in Britain it's impossible for anyone to move in to smaller accommodation . There's a serious lack of affordable housing in Britain which means greedy landlords ( There's no other type of land lord ! ) can charge what they want and the money goes directly to them and it's the tax payer who is picking up the bill . The government have never even suggested bringing in a rents cap

The welfare bill is compounded by " in work benefits " ( Again housing benefits and " Working tax credits " WTC is when you're in work more than 30 hours pw and earn less than £13,000 per year . It's a god send for the low waged and you can get an extra £60-70 pw for doing a low paid job on top of your wages . Unfortunately what it is effectively doing is allowing the tax payer to fund the low paid when employers should be paying a living wage , so again paying people a wage comes under the welfare bill

There's also what's known as " Training and job seeking providers " like A4E and Ingues which aren't all that different from workfare providers in the States which are are supposed to find jobs for the long term unemployed . There paid for by the government but the only people who seem to benefit from it are the people working for them who of course paid by the state and are very expensive to run . No doubt their salaries come under the welfare section

To answer your question about the SNP . Tony Blair's " New Labour " party was in power from 1997=2010 but apart from introducing the minimum wage I can't recall anything else they did for the proles . They never referred to themselves as " socialists " and certainly their policies were far some socialist . They did allow a referendum for devolved parliaments in Scotland and Wales which these countries voted for and were set up in 1999 . Some cynics might say this was to neutralise any possible call for full scale independence . Als because of the voting system , a combination of first past the post and proportional representation it would be unlikely if not impossible for any party to get a majority but the SNP achieved this in 2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament#Elections

Much of the SNP's appeal was the Labour Party constantly trying to out-tory the Tories and putting the boot in to the unemployed and working poor . It's interesting that in the areas where the YES vote in the referendum was highest in places like Dundee and Glasgow suffer some of the worst rates of poverty in the UK . Another major factor in the SNP success was their leader Alex Salmond who was a conviction politician rarely seen in this day and era and very charismatic . He's just stepped down and been replaced by Nicola Sturgeon so it remains to be seen how their vote share holds up and I think it'll fall but only very slightly . I don't agree with Scotland separating from the rest of the UK but the other mainstream parties of Labour , Conservative and Liberal Democrat have all shown themselves to be cynical opportunists of the worst sort and none of their politicians have spent five minutes in the real world and have shown nothing but contempt for ordinary people so I;m more than happy to vote SNP even if they're the best of a very bad bunch

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

Theo. Thank you so much for that very informative post. I take it you are a Scot. I have known a few in college and y'all are a fine people. Thanks again.

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[–] DoctorFell 9 years ago

britain is not a socialist country in the exact same way that obama has not turned the US into a socialist country, it is a rightwing lie used as a rabble rousing meme

trashing books is like the Special Olympics even if you burn them all you are still a retard.

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[–] ironduke74 9 years ago

the scandinavians have a better quality of life then you americans and they are happier

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

Theo. Thank you so much for that very informative post. I take it you are a Scot. I have known a few in college and y'all are a fine people. Thanks again.

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[–] MrMcArony 9 years ago

The tories are socialist? Who are you? McCarthy?? Good grief ....
Though you are right about Europe, whether the UK is n the EU or not it's still European (unless they want to set up their own continent) ....
The UK is just as fascist as the US, so calm down, Adolf .....

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[–] iginlafan65 9 years ago

I am so sick and tired of people throwing around the term "socialism" when they have absolutely no clue what true socialism really is apart form the bull they see in the current media.

If people actually did some actual research on socialism and communism at their base foundations they would be in the streets screaming to have it implemented!!

miles, are you area of the fact that there is no such thing as money? Money, wealth and poverty are all the inventions of the greedy banks, governments and big corporations who use their fake money as a tool to manipulate the masses into believing in these so called social classes that divide people and create the illusion that some are better and more deserving than others.

The world would be a lot better off totally destroying the banking/monetary and current government systems and going back to resource based economies.

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[–] perecastor 9 years ago

Reading this post, finally someone with good sense.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

Miles, this is now off-thread so will only say this, as Theo has replied well; the UK has the second strongest economy in the EU, after Germany, hence mass migration here from the poorer EU States.
It ill behoves an American to lecture a Brit on an arrogant State! Irony supreme!
Btw, who is your constant and closest and most trustworthy ally out in the ME Region and has been these past Heaven alone knows how many years? Yes,that's right, so be careful who you try to mock. Worms may turn.

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[–] paintexpresscbr 10 years ago

Most films that are made are based on things that never happened. Many of the atrocities that were committed by the IRA and the Loyalists were much worse that the one in this film -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/events/army_corporals_killed_at_ira_funeral

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Nairac#Shot_by_the_Provisional_IRA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Jean_McConville

As far as I can see it is never suggested that this is a true story. Just saying!

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[–] perecastor 9 years ago

What does "hence mass migration here" has to do with 2nd strongest economy? You definitely take too much proteins...

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[–] journalist1 9 years ago

I don't know what nonsense you've been reading Miles, the British economy has the strongest growth in Europe with the lowest unemployment.
What is it about Americans and their constant referring to Empire, desperately trying to remind us how it is over? Empire is over because Great Britain willed it so not from any external force irrespective of delusions of grandeur practised by the usual suspects.

Meanwhile the USA had a real chance at being the global power and blew it; however, England and then the UK was THE global power for 300 hundred years and still punches way above their weight.

England gave the USA every opportunity, colonial Brits had the highest standard of living in the world because Great Britain worked hard to ensure they had the best start; however, even with all those opportunities you've blown it utterly. People around the world curse your name for the heavy handed, Ill thought-out geopolitical strategies you've employed, there has been no nation on earth that had so many opportunities yet ruined it, ending up despised by so many nations.

So please stop crowing and pointing fingers at the nation that birthed you; gave you every chance and start using a little humility, please.

I choose to believe what my religion programs me to believe.

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

@Journalist1
"What is it about Americans and their constant referring to Empire, desperately trying to remind us how it is over? Empire is over because Great Britain willed it so not from any external force irrespective of delusions of grandeur practised by the usual suspects."

The reason Britain gave up her colonies is because after World War II, Britain was both economically and militarily drained . Britain could no longer afford to hold on to its colonies. PLUS the world was a way more different place after 1945. Imperialism was not tolerated the way it was before because Germany displayed those characteristics in the war. That's the reason why y'all had to give it up. It wasn't because of any altruistic motives.

"So please stop crowing and pointing fingers at the nation that birthed you; gave you every chance and start using a little humility, please."

The USA owes Britain nothing. All the UK tried to do was exploit us. Refer to "Stamp Act", "Boston Massacre " etc. We fought for our Freedom From Tyranny And Imperialism And won Against The Most powerful Nation at the time(1776).

I know I risk sounding arrogant and fanboyish but tell me what I said is not the truth.

Look it up we are still referred to as the sole superpower. Our economy is improving , we will shake off the effects of the recession in due time.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] TapiocaSunrise 9 years ago

the British need to forget the good old days of jolly empire. Face it y'all cant survive alone. Socialism don't work sorry guys.

You do realise that there is so much contradiction in those two sentences that they just make you look a complete idiot?

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[–] ironduke74 9 years ago

where does this clown get his info from.

jolly empire?

what a total spanker

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] joewritesonasia 9 years ago

Britain is a Member of the European Community, however the residents of Britain retain the right to call themselves British to maintain their Sovereignty and individuality. Collectively the people of the EC are Europeans.

To help you understand, the USA is part of Continental America and as such the citizens of the US call themselves 'Americans' but believe it or not Mexicans, Brasilians, Peruvians, Canadians, Argentinian etc etc etc are ALL Americans by dint of the continental collective noun.

Sorry I just pissed on y'all grits Earl ...

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

If the country is a part of the European continent its residents are called Europeans. There isn't a continent named Britain is there? God you guys get uppity over everything.

You can call US and Mexicans residents North Americans but its popularly used to denote USA and Canada.

Brazilians, Peruvians, Argentinian are all South Americans by the way.

But only the US is referred to as America. It's just how it is.

Your usage of the word "dint" is wrong just fyi.

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

If the country is a part of the European continent its residents are called Europeans. There isn't a continent named Britain is there? God you guys get uppity over everything.

You can call US and Mexicans residents North Americans but its popularly used to denote USA and Canada.

Brazilians, Peruvians, Argentinian are all South Americans by the way.

But only the US is referred to as America. It's just how it is.

Your usage of the word "dint" is wrong just fyi.

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[–] joewritesonasia 9 years ago

It pays to check before hitting the send button.

Dint - noun
1.By dint of, by means or use of: example 'by dint of hard work'

The American Heritage® Idioms Dictionary
Copyright © 2002, 2001, 1995 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

... and for your information I have NEVER met a Canadian yet who would admit to being 'American', despite the fact they are part of 'Continental America'

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] pjpoconnell 9 years ago

Actually, a lot of Americans did know about the civil rights struggle in the North of Ireland. Most of them had names beginning with "O," or "Fitz," or "Mc."

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[–] bob-1135 10 years ago

I don’t think I have ever read a more ignorant, insensitive post than that posted by milesd212. I cannot believe that he actually wrote “I mean seriously you Europeans need to calm down and stop getting your panties in a twist about these things damn lol” Laughing Out Loud!!!! Listen you horse’s backside, over the last 100 years Europeans have lost tens of millions to war and conflict, you think that’s something to laugh out loud at?? You lost a couple of thousand on 9/11 and good grief haven’t you just been banging on about it ever since??

The IRA and UDA were two criminal groups much like the Mafia who murdered thousands over a thirty year period, men women and children. What made it especially hard to take was the greater part of the IRA support in weapons, explosives and funding came from the States. It wasn’t until you started having your own terrorists setting off bombs that funding tailed off.

I was in Belfast in 1969 and I saw the streets on fire. When the US has suffered years of bombing in World Wars fought in the US perhaps then you will see that this is not something to laugh out loud at!

And in case anyone thinks I am anti American I was with them in Viet Nam and take regular holidays there (just come back from there two weeks ago) my beef is solely with this dickhead who seems to think millions of lives lost is something to laugh out loud at!

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

This conflict has been called different names by different factions. I never said or meant to joke about or dismiss the human cost of the conflict.

And I you prove the point about Europeans being too emotional before getting their facts straight. No wonder the US is the sole superpower we don't let our emotions get in the way.

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[–] lucy-loo1 10 years ago

The fact that the US - especially Texas - has a high number of fundermentalist Christians ( including one infamous female politician who thought Steven Hawking was American when he's actually British ) tells the western world all it needs to know about some parts of America - all brawn and no brain.

This thread should die a death.

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

@lucyloo There is a difference between fundamentalist and radical. I hope you know the difference as we are speaking in the language developed in your nation.

Yes we have fundamentalist Christian because we wish to follow God. The UK might do some good in paying attention to that. Don't worry my Church and many Churches in the DFW area sends missionaries to the UK on occasion hopefully they can help y'all.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

Brits let emotions get in the way? Never heard of English reserve and stiff upper lip?
It is our very sangfroid which has got us through many a tight situation.

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

The stiff upper lip died with your "Empire".

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[–] bob-1135 10 years ago

Now I’ve heard it all. Americans don’t let their emotions get in the way? You’re all emotion and no clear thought. You can’t turn on the TV without seeing some syrupy hogwash with Americans weeping at a ball game, clutching the Stars & Stripes and yelling out God Bless America. If your intention was really not to offend anyone then you’ve failed, and I suggest you just put your keyboard away and let the grown ups debate.

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[–] milesd212 10 years ago

Bob come on man. I just need three words to collapse your above point. "English Soccer Hooliganism". When was the last time you herad murders or attacks over football,baseball or basketball?

When was the last time you heard the same about soccer in the UK???? Five minutes ago.

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

Murders at UK soccer matches? Which planet are you on? Hooliganism peaked in the 70's and has been in decline since.

How about we compare murder rates (with firearms) between UK and USA? No? yeah, best we don't as your crime figures are, shall I say, a tad embarrassing for you. In UK we can't walk into a supermarket and buy a firearm with a can of paint and a garden fork!

Stiff upper lip died with Empire? The heck it did. Hey, how many Brits do you actually know, really know, these days? Sounds to me as if you are reading into dated caricatures from decades ago.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

You've heard all now, bob? You and me both. Good response btw.

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[–] bob-1135 10 years ago

I can't believe this chap. He obviously thinks we all talk like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins! It's obvious his ignorance is stopping him from declaring any rational point of view. I think the best thing to do is to just pat him on the head and sit him on the naughty step till he calms down or grows up.

I am glad to say he is not typical of the Americans I have met over the years, the vast majority of them are pleasant fellows, which is one of the reasons I keep going to the States for various holidays.

However every so often an expedition hacks its way through some tangled woods and there in a clearing is a village cut off from the real world and where all the inhabitants swig moonshine and play the banjo and there sitting on a tree stump they obviously found this fellow!

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[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

The best way to look at this guy is he must be a wind-up merchant.
I used to work with a large US company in the Gulf, knew scores of them, most of whom were top notch guys. So, I agree your comments on them.

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

Bob if you look back at all the posts I have been very respectful while you have been very abrasive, foul mouthed(you referred to me as a dickhead) and belligerent. Its ok I know Europeans feel very insecure these days but y'all should learn to at least keep face. I dont feel I can have a reasonable discussion with you

Thats all I am gonna say.

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[–] bob-1135 9 years ago

'That's all I am going to say' The words we have all been waiting for!

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] Wickedones 9 years ago

"Listen you horse’s backside, over the last 100 years Europeans have lost tens of millions to war and conflict, you think that’s something to laugh out loud at??"

Who STARTED those wars and conflicts? I think you'll find the blame lies squarely on European shoulders.

Not being silly or dismissive here, but the bloodiest piece of real estate on this planet is to the EAST of North America, North of Africa and West of Asia.

And judging from some of the Brits' responses, you all take "pissing contest" literally. LOL

Shoes are like crack to women - Sophocles

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[–] MrMcArony 9 years ago

The mafia are certainly a 'criminal group' but the IRA, UDA etc are political terrorist groups ... one is for profit, and the other is for a political ideal.

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[–] bob-1135 9 years ago

You are joking of course. In the early seventies the IRA, PIRA, UVF, UDA and other gangs met in Dublin to divide up the rackets in Northern Ireland. Among the ones controlled by the IRA were drugs and the black cabs and the UDA got vice and other things.

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[–] MrMcArony 9 years ago

Im not saying there wasnt racketeering, but it wasnt their raison d'etre, and a lot of that dirty money went towards dirtier ends, ie buying semtex and guns .... Thats why, in prison, they were treated as political prisoners rather than common criminals.

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[–] bob-1135 9 years ago

Yes it was, they simply hid behind the political facade, why do you think so many of them ended up with vast fortunes? As for them being treated as political prisoners please tell me you are joking!

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[–] MrMcArony 9 years ago

Why do you think I'm joking all the time?
Lot's of people get rich running FIFA but that doesn't mean it's a business (though may well be more corrupt than the IRA (I'm joking here))
They were treated as political prisoners though not officially recognized as such.

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[–] bob-1135 9 years ago

Because your ignorance is so overwhelming I chose to think of you joking rather than the alternative. Where on earth you get the idea that terrorists incarcerated for crimes were ever treated as political prisoners I have no idea.

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[–] MrMcArony 9 years ago

If youre overwhelmed by my ignorance then wait til you see yours ....

This is from wikipedia "The strike was called off at 3:15 pm on 3 October,[37] and three days later Prior announced partial concessions to the prisoners including the right to wear their own clothes at all times.[3] The only one of the "Five Demands" still outstanding was the right not to do prison work. Following sabotage by the prisoners and the Maze Prison escape in 1983 the prison workshops were closed, effectively granting all of the "Five Demands" but without any formal recognition of political status from the government"

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[–] MrMcArony 9 years ago

Here is the full story, maybe you should check your own ignorance in future before making a fool of yourself .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Category_Status

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[–] bob-1135 9 years ago

The Government accepted the recommendation and on 1 March 1976, the new Labour Secretary of State Merlyn Rees announced the phasing out of SCS. Anyone convicted of a scheduled terrorist-related offence after March 1976 would be treated as an ordinary criminal and would have to wear a prison uniform, do prison work and serve their sentence in the new Maze Prison in what became known as the H-Blocks.

If you look at the so called five demands not one of them demanded the right to be treated as a political prisoner.

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[–] MrMcArony 9 years ago

Even the Special Category was only a 'de facto' political status, prisoners of war in all but name. The decision to remove this status resulted in the blanket protest, then the dirty protest and then the hunger strikes, by the end of which all of the demands had been met, as said in the first quote I sent you. Special category was never restored but all the conditions of it were (own clothes, free association etc) allowing both sides a way out without being seen to be backing down. It doesn't mention the status of the loyalist terror groups but I presume it was the same for them.

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[–] jcard07 9 years ago

I'm British and have served and currently work in the Military and understand the history of 'Operation Banner' and to be fair Miles realises he might have sounded flippant, but I think people are being a little hard on him.
Lets remember this is a site for like minded people who like to discuss Films (movies) and there is no need to snipe at each other, if we were discussing this in a pub, cafe or where ever, we wouldn't talk to each other as people often do on these sites.

He's not the Messiah! He's a very naughty boy..

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[–] chinaski2323 9 years ago

I'm an American an I'll say Miles is getting off easy in this thread. He illustrates the worst type of ignorant, offensive, and jingoistic American. The type who will tell an entire nation that they're wrong to call themselves European or not based on a wikipedia article.

He must be like 17 years old, I can't accept that an adult could be that clueless. But gee, he's from Texas, so who knows. Luckily the rest of the world has enough knowledge of geography to know what that is likely to mean. Y'all.

P.S. This is the only thread 'Miles' has posted in. I smell a troll. Well done. I just wish the rest of us wouldn't feed them.

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[–] ronfirv 9 years ago

What's wrong with Texans?!! I'm a Brit., have met a couple of Texans, and they seemed ok guys!
Some of the politest, friendliest Americans I have ever met or known have been mid-West guys too.

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[–] chinaski2323 9 years ago

Like any generalization there are plenty of individual exceptions. I have family that were transplanted to Texas and don't fit the mold. I'm imagine there are regions of Britain that have stereotypes that are somewhat accurate.

If you want to know what I think is bad about the *wrong* type of Texan, just read all of Miles' posts. They epitomize the ugly American, center of the universe, 'Don't mess with Texas' stereotype that will probably be best remembered worldwide via the Bush presidencies. If you think GWB was a good representation of the U.S. to the world, then I'm probably wasting my breath.

Also, I grew up outside of Chicago, which is very mid-western. I've never heard of Texas described as the mid-west -- it's usually considered southern or 'the south'. But even if it were considered mid-western, comparing Texas to Wisconsin would be like comparing Scotland to Liverpool (I'm probably wrong but I don't know enough about GB to give a good analogy). They're both 'northern' but obviously very different...

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[–] ronfirv 9 years ago

I never thought Miles was a typical American or even a typical Texan. I am more worldly aware than that.
There is a misunderstanding here, in as much as although I stated I have a good opinion (generally)of mid-West guys, I am aware Texas is very much in the South!!
I will also never forget many Texans, at the time, the only State to vociferously support the UK during our little difficulty in the Falklands. Dang, some wanted to sign up for the British Forces or form an American company and headin' to the Sth. Atlantic! I admire that militaristic spirit, as we Scots also own it in abundance. (The Thin Red Line, and all that).
Yes, we have clear regional differences in UK too ; as well as a Brit., I'm a Scot, so we are different from everyone in the rest of the UK, and we have regional differences in wee Scotland. West from East coasts and Highlands from Lowlands. Same in England, as you are aware.

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[–] chinaski2323 9 years ago

Aha.. I just noticed somewhere in the thread he said he was from Texas, in the same breath as "those 'troubles' or whatever" -- so it stuck out to me. You could easily find that kind of attitude anywhere in the U.S. -- it's just a lot easier in Texas it seems.

I'd never heard that about Texans and the Falklands... My impression is that *anyone* in the marines was stoked to go out and shoot at things. But most of what I know about the Falklands comes from the movie Heartbreak Ridge!

Back to '71 -- do you get why the last guy tries to choke out the soldier? Is that just supposed to describe how confusing the allegiances were, or did I miss something?

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[–] Tess-tastic 9 years ago

As I've already posted, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporals_killings.

Does this satisfy your request?

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[–] blazingmaddogs 9 years ago

Just like the Korean War was actually just a police action.

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[–] Sidewindr 9 years ago

Similarly, I still can't understand why the Falklands war is often said to be a "Conflict", and the Malayan "troubles" referred to as "the Confrontation" (with Indonesia) or Konfrontasi if some prefer, in Malay. Talk about euphemisms!

That's the british way!! Things must sound civil and proper.. :)

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[–] ttaskmaster 9 years ago

Similarly, I still can't understand why the Falklands war is often said to be a "Conflict", and the Malayan "troubles" referred to as "the Confrontation" (with Indonesia) or Konfrontasi if some prefer, in Malay. Talk about euphemisms!

That's the british way!! Things must sound civil and proper.. :)

It's also because in order to be called the [Whatever] War, a state of War must actually be declared and all the various procedures enacted. That means rationing, establishment of Home Guard and whatever else.

The UK has not officially declared War since 1942, so these remain 'conflicts' and 'troubles'.

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[–] MarwoodWalks 10 years ago

The film never says it is directly taken from a true story, but things like this DID happen during the troubles.

Its a bit like taking any war film and saying 'this never happened'. Well no, not quite as depicted, but the war happened, and people died and struggled to survive in many different ways. This film just sets a story amid those times.

"Fiery the angels fell; deep thunder rolled around their shores; burning with the fires of Orc"

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] meaneyenator 9 years ago

Ah both Brits and Americans fighting it out between themselves about who's more important than the other, while the rest of the planet looks on in bemusement yet again, more concerned with actual reality. If either of you put half as much time and effort into your work ethic as you do in your pissing contests then you wouldn't have the Chinese kicking your asses on literally every level.

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[–] NoTaste 9 years ago

I don't wish to be pendantic, but I'm from Britain and no one from China has ever kicked my ass. In fact I don't even own an ass or any form of Equus.
Also, I have to confess that I don't know where I stand in a pissing contest. Whether it's based on distance, duration or volume, I would imagine that I'm barely average, and certainly nowhere near competition standard.
However my "work ethic" is shockingly poor, I can't wait to get back home to my family, or go out with my friends.
I must admit though, if we had suitable space, it would be nice to keep an ass, despite their lack of withers.
Thankyou though, for your excellent observation on both my nation and that of America. I hope that we can work together in the future to meet your exacting standards.

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[–] ValentineXavier 9 years ago

Heheh

Hey guys, you know those Planet of the Apes movies? Never happened

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[–] tiggetagge 9 years ago

Entertaining read! My hat off to you brits!

/ From Scandinavia (not european either lol) with love.

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

Scandinavia is in Europe :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia

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[–] tenkisoratoti 9 years ago

Ah.

Every British film board on IMDB has the pre-requisite American troll to ply out half truths and non-nonsensically bring up the Empire without provocation. I personally can't see how you people get off on it but I suppose if it makes you feel better about your life then fair enough. You're only receiving contempt anyway; rather than than imbuing anyone with your farcical worldly knowledge.

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[–] dmc102 9 years ago

Miles, don't know if you're still interested, but you challenged a poster earlier on to provide a single example of a soldier or group of soldiers surrounded by a hostile mob in Belfast;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhfgQOLSrTQ

The murder of Cpls. Wood and Howes, two plain-clothes military engineers whose car was surrounded in West Belfast (where this film is set) in 1988. They were surrounded by a mob, stripped, beaten and shot dead in front of news cameras.

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[–] Hippo9 9 years ago

Typical unathletic insecure American fanboi.

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[–] ManThing32 9 years ago

Christ. Is there anything you idiots won't blame on America?

This isn't YouTube.

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[–] nessieyeti 9 years ago

Not sure where all the faux offence has come from here. milesd212 made a largely inocuous remark which has been leapt upon and reacted to with ridiculous levels of hysteria.
The film is not based upon a true story though events with some similarity have occurred during The Troubles, some of which have been outlined. 71 gave a very accurate synopsis of the different factions operating at this time, the Provisional and Official IRA, the state sanctioned murderous MRF etc.
The UK is, thank goodness, in Europe and a member of the EU and long may that continue. The assertion of the UK being subject to socialism and socialist policies is so wrong it's difficult to know where to begin but free healthcare for all, not just those who can afford it, and a welfare system to support the sick, those with disabilities and the unemployed are things to take immense pride in, not dismantle. Take money from the conglomorates that pay no tax , the obscenely wealthy who move their money offshore, not the poorest members of society. If having the best healhtcare system in the world is socialist then sign me up. To get rid of it would be insanity personified.
I have a handful of American friends living here milesd212 who are naturalised citizens who cannot believe when they go back to the States how skewed and critical the coverage of free healthcare for all is there.
I live in the UK, am of Irish descent, lived during The Troubles in London which was frequently targetted and have relatives both in the North and Republic of Ireland.

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[–] deflemonflix 9 years ago

Sets up an account just to start this thread.......I smell a troll.

Do you need a hug or something buddy?

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[–] magicsock 9 years ago

i didn't get that he was trying to troll, although with a thread titled "this never happened" he was asking for it.

what i do see is a whole bunch of people comming on just to fight, or insult each other, or to unsuccessfully demonstrate their superiority. thats why i came on!

one of my favorite things is geo-political discussions on a movie chat board! no one ever comes off looking smart, because, lets face it we came here to find out when the next tmnt film will come out.

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[–] wixy-1 9 years ago

for your information, the late Robert "bob" benner c company the 3rd battalion the queens regiment murdered by the ira in 1971 . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NORAID . now disappear little man.

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[–] The_Knight_RiderV22 9 years ago

It's not murder if its war. Don't start wars then cry like women when someone retaliates. You British are notorious like that.

www.manlymovie.net

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[–] stuartspencer72 9 years ago

So the Japanese executing prisoners in camps like Changi was not murder? The Mei Lai massacre was not murder? The Holocaust was not murder?

So you are saying the International War Crime Tribunal is all a scam? All is fair in war?

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[–] robert-foster63 9 years ago

As far as the average seppo's concernbed, the Mei Lai massacre never happened.

There's never been a movie about it, so no one's ever heard of it.

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

Lol you sound real bitter towards the US. Why all the anger? I actually had to look up what "seppo" meant. Not a very nice thing to say. Did you notice that most of the British posts on this board have called names but I haven't stooped down to such behavior? Doesn't that tell you guys something about the difference in attitudes between us and you guys?

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[–] robert-foster63 9 years ago

"Doesn't that tell you guys something about the difference in attitudes between us and you guys?"

Get a grip.

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[–] DirectorDoc 9 years ago

OP: Do a bit of research before you go around making spurious claims.

Yes this isn't a true story, but it could well have happened given the conflict in Belfast during 1971 - here is a reasonably comprehensive list of the many incidents involving clashes between the British and IRA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_actions_%281970%E2%80%9379%29

Why is there so much hostility towards you from British posters? Well it could be due to your insensitivity about a topic that still touches on a sore wound. I'm not British myself (I'm an Australian) but I've read up on the Troubles and it is not something to be trivialised in discussion.

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

celticdiardan I never said clashes didnot occur. I said an actual incident like the one mentioned in the MOVIE did not happen.

I NEVER acted insensitive towards the conflict. Show me where I did.

I am used to seeing British posters acts hostile towards Americans on internet boards. Its all the pent up jealousy and rage of being part of a country that doesn't matter on the world stage anymore

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[–] ronfirv 9 years ago

But we do matter on the world stage ; thousands are entering this country, many illegally as they like what they see! Countries' leaders consult us,and invite our Head of State (our Monarch)but we have more, what the USA can not win but want - others' RESPECT!

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[–] milesd212 9 years ago

Lol the US gets the most immigrants of any country. Respect? Please. We are the richest and most powerful nation in the history of the world. The whole world wants to be like us.

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[–] ronfirv 9 years ago

Hyperbole!

The most powerful Empire was Rome - know your history, sunshine.

The world wants to be like you ? Go ask that in most countries, but when you do, be prepared for a shock.

English is the world's international language of business which is the mother tongue of the United Kingdom in the first instance, not the US of A.
Keep on boasting all the same, true to form, and each one more hilarious than the one before. Smacks to me of a deep national insecurity.

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[–] robert-foster63 9 years ago

"The whole world wants to be like us".

lol. And you wonder why people treat you with contempt.

In fairness to most Americans, you are exceptionally arrogant. Way over the top.

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[–] ronfirv 9 years ago

How true, robertf.
I worked with US Military in the Gulf - this guy's views are exceptional I am happy to admit, bearing out what you said. Probably has travelled little.
His arrogance is that of the insecure, like a cornered mountain cat seeing no way out of the corner it has dug for itself.

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[–] ronfirv 9 years ago

Almost a movie("Pinkville") about it a couple of years ago but it was put on ice. (I think Stone was to direct).

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[–] robert-foster63 9 years ago

Yeah.

We're still sobbing (and making cr@p movies) about that Vietnam business.

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[–] faibrit 9 years ago

I am really surprised by your comments. Whilst this particular story may not have 'happened' it was most likely an amalgam of multiple British soldiers' accounts of the horrors of serving in Northern Ireland. Movie makers use dramatic licence to good effect even though the precise story may be different. I lived in London in the 1970s when the IRA bombings were hanging over us like a cloud, and I can tell you how horrifying that was. Now Imagine being a young soldier sent to Belfast in the eye of that hurricane, trying to defend civilians from terrorists. I can tell you that the British government may have made peace with the IRA in 1994 but there is still no peace in Northern Ireland and hatred and killings on both sides i still rife. Your dismissive comments about this film demonstrate that you are not well read on The Troubles. I suggest you read the many factual accounts that are published and then you will realise that '71 is nowhere near as horrific as the ACTUAL war was for British soldiers and innocent people living on the mainland as well as in Ireland itself.

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[–] Anrkey 9 years ago

This was a particularly nasty read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shankill_Butchers

Looks like both sides were pretty horrific at times. That's war for you.

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