MovieChat Forums > Yes, Prime Minister (2013) Discussion > too much farce, lost its realism

too much farce, lost its realism


yes, (prime)minister was known for being, although comedic, relatively realistic. people in power were certain there were government insiders leaking anecdotes and details, because real events were appearing on the show. thats what made it simply brilliant; it was observational, it was charming, it was funny, it was almost voyeuristic as to how backroom deals are made, but it wasnt over the top to the point that you would think this could not ever happen. it was subtle, intelligent writing. it was almost scary how on the button some of the observations were, as has been said by real civil servants/politicians etc. david cameron wrote an essay once that yes minister was totally unrealisitic, since being in office, he has actually said it was more accurate than he feared.

so why did they give up on that? why take something thats funny because of how probable the events are, and dress them up in a clown suit?

the first episode of this new series had over the top, exagerated hammy acting, no realism, and became farcical in places, like the oil pipeline thats about 20 times too long so that it snakes back and forth, dipping a toe in every country in europe to give everyone a cut of the profit like mobsters dividing up a racket. the original series made jokes about the sort of absurdities that really had or really could have happened, through honest error, incompetance, or simply as a result of a burdensome bureaucracy. if it ever went out of the realms of the plausible, it only edged covertly over that line, the writers themselves have said the things people most often believed were too far, were usually things theyd been told had really, or nearly had, actually happened and thats why they felt ok with pushing the suspension of disbelief. this new show stomps around on the border of the plausible from start to finish. what on earth happened. and what was the ott canned sounding studio laughter, it popped up at the slightest, mildest, weakest shadow of a joke like something amazing was going on.

the characters have also been changed dramatically, jim hacker has gone from a well meaning, amiable, but somewhat self serving politician to a much more exagerated caricature of headline chasing and mean spiritedness. bernard has gone from the soft edged, carefully unoffensive but intelligent middle man who walks a middleground between the 2 other characters, knowing when to tread carefully, to a daffy, lispy baffoon who seems more a pastiche of alan b'stards favourite whipping boy. the original bernard may not always see the inside of humphreys scheming and need a few things made clearer, but this new bernard seems more a man child that, if he couldnt parrot latin phrases, would seem like an overgrown work experience kid who got lost. and humphrey, hes gone from snobby but charming and willing to do business with the devil himself if it benefitted the country or his personal friends, to more an old fashioned cold war relic afraid of the russians and obviously slimey and crawly. he has also gone from defending the power of the civil service at any cost, to determined to castrate british authority and hand it all to the eu. why would he be trying to push for the euro unless he has some personal motive, its too out of character.

ok if you want to shake up characters, if the overall result was good it can be forgiven, but they seem to want to do something drastically different with the show, where they are actually being hindered by the baggage of having to keep shadows of the old character traits, or at least pay them lip service. cut the cord or keep the spirit the same, dont try to put a foot each side of the fence at once or youl get yourself caught somewhere unpleasent.

there was also rather lazy references to old jokes, the sudden, oh yes bury it in the boxes, he never gets far, and the reference to the old swansea vehichle licensing centre, werent so much subtle homages to the old show when those jokes were first made, more *elbow to the ribs* eh, eh, ya remember that, eh, like what them other blokes said before, eh, eh. kumran, the country where they hid alcohol in the embassy, is now kumranistan, eh, eh, eh, remember, remember back when this was a good show? eh, eh? the references just felt crowbarred in.

the writing has just faceplanted since the original, maybe the writers shouldnt have just agreed to writing it because they were asked for 2 years by gold and the number of the cheque reached enough zeros, rather, they should have waited until they actually had some organic ideas theyd like to play with. they dont still have current contacts feeding them the inside scoop and they dont have their finger on the pulse anymore than the average person who flicks through the tabloids now and then, and it shows. where there were intelligent jokes, the result of lengthy research, there are now runs of buzzwords of political issues the average punter will have heard mentioned on newsnight once. such a shame.

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i think the biggest problem is that the actors are over-acting (in a typically modern brit comedy fashion) and thus where the orginal actors appeared natural, and the characters genuine and believable, the current set appear as caracatures of the characters and deliver the lines with un-natural emphasis and reliance on facial expressions, as if every line needs to achieve a laugh.

i did enjoy it... but its not a patch on the original, which was a classic.

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yes, i have to admit ive only ever seen the guy now playing hacker back in the 90s on the thin blue line, and he overdid it a bit but not embarassingly so, so having nothing to compare with im wondering if it isnt the direction or something.

i mean even if its just the actors being out of their league, the writing has a different tone even though its the same writers, they seem to not be trying to do it properly and just nod and wink to the audience, like the pipeline thing. youd always get jokes before about like how some nations in nato would let their troops go home for weekends, or that the soviets knew things before whitehall etc, but that wasnt always too far from the truth and wasnt farcical. there was a cynical sense of humor of everyone having a price, wether it be honors or quangos, but just, i dont know why it annoys me so much but like the pipeline thing really sticks. it wasnt subtle, it wasnt something where ok, behind the scenes people make obscene demands and radical leftiess or far righters ask for things they can never get, but everyone still puts on a good public face of competance, and jim has to put up with the side of things and organisations and people underneath the veneer the rest of us see. the pipeline, something really rather public that cannot be hidden or buried in the bureacracy of the swansea vehicle licensing centre, this is something that will be scrutinised by every outlet of the press, theres no way that would be so messed about with. theres not even the slight chance of, oh yeh, politicians, thats just like them, all pipelines snake over the longest route ever imagined, well known that is. i know its a comedy, i know it doesnt have to be fly on the wall documentary, but they went from playing with oh the daft things that go on behind the scenes, to almost pie throwing type humor in comparisson.

in real life under tony blair, up until the signs were about to be put up, the department of energy really did nearly end up with the acronym penis, something about power energy and something, there really have been times when some typo has caused 500 thousand staplers to be ordered, there really have been outrageous proposals by the political extremes. never has there been a pipeline deliberatly extended to cross into a country it doesnt need to, even if the politicans were corrupt enough, its not something that could even be hoped would remain secret. this isnt the only example of the new and lower brow tone, its just the most blazingly in your face.

the same thing happened with this years royle family christmas special, (and the last few) a show that was loved because it was totally, totally, painfully real. people have those sort of squabbles and driving each other mad, a family just sat round in front of the telly, that was what made it a success. then this years special, they went ridiculous, with the family all marching up and down in waiter outfits, dressing joe and acting like he was a car being serviced, joe losing control and trying to dance his way up the stairs to have sex. im sure the cast had great fun with it, but if your whole thing is realism, dont play with farce. the old series of royle family, many families could look around the room as they watched it and see almost a mirror image on the sofa around them, but no family suddenly just happens to think its in a bad movie parody. its becoming a trend of previously subtle british comedies turning to nods and winks to the audience.

even if the acting were comparable to the original cast, the producers and people behind the scenes seem to be more interested in cashing in or something that will make money no matter what instead of doing it justice. gold as a channel finally starting to make a bit of its own programming (i think the only other thing they have made so far are the new red dwarfs on their other channel dave) should try for quality, even if it means making a new show from scratch and let it earn praise on its own merits, instead they are just throwing money at it, buying up shows with an exsisting, ready made following, that people will give a try no matter what quality it is. they claim they spent 18 months of writing and rehearsing and preparing this series, i doubt it if this is the result, it feels rushed, im guessing 18 months was rather from the signing of the first cheque.

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I loved the original "Yes, Minister" and "Yes, Prime Minister" series when they were first shown and still watch the DVDs to this day. It stands up well enough and is even still current in places.

Having said that, I think "The Thick Of It" is today's version of the show. There is absolutely no need for this atrocity.

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yup, the thick of it just feels more current, and seems to reflect how politics have gone, more open bitchiness, more tweeting, more spads etc. glad to know its not just me. i actually havent seen many of the thick of it, im a bit ocd about watching things from the start and never catch the repeats from the begining, but it just feels more fly on the wall and less panto than this. more the spirit of the old ministers.

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I have the same OCD problem so I ended up buying the Thick of It DVDs then watched the whole lot over a couple of days. The language and fly on the wall style makes it feel more modern.

I've always liked to think that if "The Thick Of It" was made in 1980 it would be like "Yes, Minister" and if "Yes, Minister" was made today it would be like "The Think Of It", not like this version of "Yes, Prime Minister".

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The new version does not look right. After New Labour, the rise of the spin doctors, this looks like a step back in time. Haig has judged his delivery wrong, not for a minute can I buy him as PM.

Its that man again!!

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The irony there is that David Haig was pretty good as a spin doctor mentally unravelling in "The Think Of It".

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The delivery of the lines is just wrong in the new series, along with the casting and the script.

Paul Eddington's Jim Hacker was a man climbing the greasy pole and doing intellectual battle with Nigel Hawthorne's Sir Humphrey. Two intelligent people trying to outwit each other to get their own way. With a third intelligent man (Bernard Wooley) chipping in occasionally splitting his loyalty between Jim and Sir Humphrey to try and make sure one of them didn't win everything and keep it all balanced.

The new series pits one smarmy civil servant against an imbecile who the viewer doesn't care about at all and the new Bernard reminds me of Piers Fletcher-Dervish from The New Statesman, only with scruffy hair. There is no balance in the new series.

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totally agree, and yes i couldnt remember his name but that was who i meant by alan b'stards favourite whipping boy, he seems to be an impersonation of that character, which was from a surreal farce type comedy, rather than a straight comedy like yes minister once was. at least we still have the old series being repeated so often, even if gold has made a shambles out of this remake.

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Having read this thread in it`s entirety I simply couldn`t agree more with the points made.Hence,all I do have to say is.... tom grainger88 you MUST get around to watching The Thick Of It. I have absolutely no doubt that you`ll love it!

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thanks, its on the to do list.

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Yes Minister, The Sandbaggers, and The Consultant are three most timeless and important shows from that era. And if you saw The Consultant, you'll know why it is now nowhere to be found. Too close to the truth at the time.

I think my percentage of Chimp DNA is higher than others. Cleaver Greene

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