What is wrong with Oxnard? - Valentine Road (2013) Discussion

[–] chas437 11 years ago

Whether we like it or not, these people you revile live amongst us and their perspective is very real.

This is why I believe the school officials failed to protect Larry, by not sending him home or suspending him. In a perfect world, any TG or gay kid should be able to express their sexuality in the same manner a heterosexual kid does. We don't live in a perfect world.

It seems to me the the school officials treated the situation as if the school was a tolerant place, when it clearly wasn't.

Obviously Brandon is a dangerous individual who reserves to be put away for a long time, but these school officials should have been fired as well. The complete flake who gave Larry the dress got what she deserved.

"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"

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[–] igetitfaster 11 years ago

The complete flake who gave Larry the dress got what she deserved.

By that *ahem* logic, if Larry had walked into a thrift store and bought a used dress the clerk would be subject to some sort of reprimand.

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[–] chas437 11 years ago

Nope, faulty logic there. I believe the teacher in question knew of Larry's behavioral issues and that other teachers attempts to help him, but chose to blatantly ignore this and do her own thing.

She says something like "all the other teachers have a problem with Larry's behavior, but I don't". So she was sending Larry a conflicting message, that's how I see it.

She was the cool teacher/angel sent down to help all the little TG kids, in her mind.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] igetitfaster 11 years ago

So she was sending Larry a conflicting message, that's how I see it.

If her message was that it was ok for him to be himself, then I suppose that would conflict with the message that it is not. What's next? Are you going to argue that water is wet?

Did Larry wear the dress to school? Please, explain how the dress is relevant in any way.

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[–] chas437 11 years ago

In the ridiculous little animation segments, meant to bias the viewer and which are based on pure speculation, they show Larry running to the men's? bathroom to try on the dress.

Its implied that Larry wore the dress at school, by the animation and by the fact that the teacher was fired for giving him the dress. If she had given him the dress outside of the school, there would have been no grounds for her dismissal. Public employees are really hard to fire, and even more so in California. So, in the eyes of the school officials, she had done something very serious.

I'm getting really tired of this debate. Its a mistake to bring critical thinking into an issue that is obviously meant to be seen through the haze of political correctness.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] igetitfaster 11 years ago

Its implied that Larry wore the dress at school, by the animation ...
I'm getting really tired of this debate

I think you're just tired of being shown time and time again how ridiculous your 'arguments' are.

It was implied that Larry wore the dress at school? So this happened but no mention of it is made by anyone and we are using the animation as a strict renactment of real events?

Also, lest your misinterpretation of a really clear documentary should endure, it is never stated the teacher was fired for the dress. The implication was that she was having alot of personal problems after the killing and this is what lead to the decision to ask her to resign.

See, a real debate can only happen when emotion and fallacy are left at the door. Thus far you have not been able to shed either of those things.

Its a mistake to bring critical thinking

I'll fix that for you. You mean to say you are mistaking your ideas for critical thinking. They are anything but.

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[–] chas437 11 years ago

Obviously you don't get it faster, you don't seem to get it at all. You seem more about insults than honest debate.

When you got nothing, resort to insults. I'm surprised it took you this long to retort.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] igetitfaster 11 years ago

I've insulted nobody. Of course, when I point out something that is true I don't consider it an insult. I am indifferent and simply stating fact.

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[–] antonio8885 10 years ago

Despite her good intentions by being Larry's one adult supporter at that school, the teacher who gave him the dress was very misguided in her attempts to mentor him; she should have discussed it with his guardians at the group home and the exchange should have taken place there instead of at school. Then again, is it unethical for a teacher to become involved in the lives of their students regardless of the location or their intentions. She knew he was impulsive & would probably want to try it on at school at that moment! I feel bad that she was booted from the system and should have hired a civil rights attorney for her own plight but she seemed helpless and hopeless with regards to putting the pieces of her life back together after this tragedy!

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[–] chas437 10 years ago

Exactly right! Its nice to see that there are some intelligent people out there, who can see past all the PC nonsense, and look at this objectively.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] igetitfaster 10 years ago

Objectively is person A murdered person B. It was premeditated and in cold blood.

Adding to that evaporates any objectivity.

Stop lying or start using a dictionary.

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

Objectively is person B bullied and embarrassed peron A. Person A was immature and couldn't deal with it so he shot person B.

Subtracting from that evaporates any objectivity.

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[–] igetitfaster 10 years ago

bullied and embarrassed

Someone is having some trouble with the definitions of subjective and objective. Or is it part of your act?

Saying something was embarrassing is the height of subjectivity. See, what embarrasses you may not embarrass me. That means it is judged subjectively- subject to a persons feelings.

Being murdered is not judged subjectively.It is objective- as in uninfluenced by emotion or prejudice. It exists whether we want it or not.

Maybe you should attend EO Green junior high. This is junior high vocabulary. You will need that first before trying to talk about an issue like this.

There I go bullying and embarrassing you again.

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

You wanna play dumb that's fine by me, but you're not fooling anyone. It's not subjective when Larry told his teacher he likes to make the boys squirm when he was confronted about his behaviour. Subjective is saying that it was a hate crime and ignoring what led up to it. Larry knew what he was doing but didn't consider the fact that someone might try to get back at him for it. The teachers made him think it was ok so they share some of the blame as well.

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[–] igetitfaster 10 years ago

It's not subjective when Larry told his teacher he likes to make the boys squirm when he was confronted about his behaviour

Are you playing dumb when it comes to vocabulary?

Of course that is subjective- Larry can like to make boys squirm all he wants but simply liking to try to make people squirm does not mean they do squirm. See how that works? Larry's so called desire to 'make boys squirm'- would be anectdotal at best and really isn't relevant here- would be subject to the individuals threshold to react by 'squirming' at something.

Damn bro...you're not very smart. Or are you just so mad that you're abandoning intellect?

Subjective is saying that it was a hate crime and ignoring what led up to it.

That doesn't even make sense. Might want to edit that.

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

LOL, you're really in denial aren't you... Those boys complained to the teacher, that's why Larry was confronted by the teacher in the first place. So obviously it bothered them and Larry knew it bothered them which is why he did it - repeatedly. Keep playing stupid though, your desperate attempts to absolve Larry of all wrongdoing are fun to watch.

Calling it a hate crime is subjective because it assumes that the only reason he was killed was because he was gay, when in fact it was his sexual bullying of Brandon that led to him being killed. Understand now, or too many big words?

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[–] igetitfaster 10 years ago

Calling it a hate crime is subjective because it assumes that the only reason he was killed was because he was gay

Well, there goes your credibility.

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

If he was killed for being gay then why wasn't he killed sooner? He came out 5 years before this happened so it was no secret. Obviously something happened that led up to the murder, but you choose to ignore it, suit yourself.

You obviously have an emotional attachment to this case as you're incapable of seeing things objectively or of understanding other peoples viewpoints. Maybe you're related to someone involved, or maybe you're just packing fudge, who knows, but you're acting like a chick on the rag with all your rambling, irrational, nonsensical responses.

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[–] igetitfaster 10 years ago

If he was killed for being gay then why wasn't he killed sooner?

I guess if you mean this as a joke it's kinda funny.

Your credibility is already shot so this doesn't really do any damage.

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

Insults are the last resort of someone who has no arguments left. I hope you enjoyed having your ass handed to you.

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[–] Great_Gazoo 10 years ago

If he was killed for being gay then why wasn't he killed sooner?

He wasn't just killed for being gay, no. But this sort of argument really brings up the best question on the other side.

If Lawrence was killed for making numerous unwanted advances toward other boys, then why did the other boys not bring guns to school in order to kill him? You said in your previous post that multiple boys were subjected to these unwanted advances by Larry. But only one retaliated by bringing a gun to school and shooting Larry in the head.

Of all the boys who Larry did this to, none of the others felt it necessary to shoot him in the head. So clearly that wasn't a normal response.

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[–] igetitfaster 10 years ago

Can a fact be considered an insult? By doing so are you creating the illusion of saving face?

Prevail

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

By all accounts, Brandon was the main focus of Larry's attention. The other boys complained that he was following them into the bathroom/changeroom. With Brandon he went about embarrassing him in front of his friends on several occasions. Who knows what would've happened if Brandon hadn't reacted as he did. Apparently one teacher warned the ap that Larry would be beaten to death by several students if his behaviour wasn't addressed. So obviously it wasn't just Brandon that was getting pissed off.

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[–] igetitfaster 10 years ago

Apparently one teacher warned the ap that Larry would be beaten to death by several students if his behaviour wasn't addressed.

Unless that teacher can prove they have the gift of clairvoyance, I'm unsure what their imagination about what other people never did has to do with anything.

The other boys complained that he was following them into the bathroom/changeroom.

Oh no, not that! A boy went into the boys bathroom and another boy came in too.
How dare he!

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

Unless that teacher can prove they have the gift of clairvoyance, I'm unsure what their imagination about what other people never did has to do with anything.

Her concerns were based on what she was hearing from the students who had complained to her.

Oh no, not that! A boy went into the boys bathroom and another boy came in too. How dare he!

There's a difference going to the bathroom to take a leak and following boys there deliberately to oggle them. To you it's funny and you laugh it off cause you have a pro-gay agenda, but for straight highschool boys it's an understandable provocation.

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[–] igetitfaster 10 years ago

following boys there deliberately to oggle them

Pretty cool use of your imagination to fill in a blank.

you have a pro-gay agenda

Imagination working overtime. Are you a writer?

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

You can choose to ignore Larry's provocative behaviour, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. No amount of sarcastic replies can change the fact that other boys were complaining about him and that he'd become a nuisance to his teachers.

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[–] Helena727 9 years ago

all the PC nonsense

My goodness, you right-wing wingnuts are not only hateful, you're also woefully undereducated.

The US was founded on the idea of freedom for everyone and freedom from persecution for one's beliefs. Now, I know that it's difficult for hate-filled people to accept that femi-nazis and c-nts and uppity Nigros and fags and lezbos deserve equal rights and respect -- but hey, just take a look at the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and think about the spirit, and hate-filled events, that motivated them.

Not that you will, of course. But I tried. And I pray that you open your mind and heart voluntarily, rather than in the aftermath of some personal tragedy that belatedly gives you comprehension of and compassion for others.

"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people."

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[–] chas437 10 years ago

I'd be willing to bet she explored all her legal options visa vi her termination by the school, and that she had no case whatsoever, for the reasons you state.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] Ashley-v-nelson 11 years ago

So much is wrong with Oxnard. For it being so close to one of the largest city in the world, people there are so closed minded. My sister graduated 8th grade that year at that school & they didn't acknowledge him whatsoever. It's disgusting.

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[–] imadbasayev 11 years ago

God forbid there should exist people with different moral values than your own.

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[–] Samuraibro 8 years ago

You don't get to hide behind the "different morals" defense when your morals harm another person's wellbeing.

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[–] WVHokie 11 years ago

There is a wide gulf between "having different moral values" and serving as an apologist for an admitted murderer.

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[–] imadbasayev 11 years ago

How are they apologists? Did anyone say he didn't deserve to be punished?

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[–] antonio8885 10 years ago

I was shocked when the documentary first featured scenes from the beach because I never would have guessed this was liberal California!

Tragic irony (since this was an isolated case although the town seemed shady): in 2013, Oxnard was ranked as one of the safest cities in America with violent crime rates well below the national average!

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[–] chas437 10 years ago

The beach they showed is actually in San Diego (Silver Strand Beach), that's how much of a stretch the whole surf Nazi thing is. Brandon having an Arian Brotherhood mentor was just supposition on the part of the filmmaker. This was never brought up in the trial.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a poorly constructed documentary. It bias is blatant, but its not convincing to objective viewers.

Also, parts of Oxnard are actually quite affluent.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] Helena727 9 years ago

I think this is a poorly constructed documentary.

Interesting that those of us who grieve for Larry but are also able to feel compassion for Brandon see the documentary as balanced (the docu shows clearly how horrible Brandon's upbringing was, how he didn't stand a chance of having a normal life) -- while those of you with your rabid postings about how awful Larry was (= those of you who came to the docu with biases in place) see the docu as biased.

The docu is balanced, and it raises questions rather than pretending that it has the answers (which is what a biased docu does).

Promise us never to vote and further screw up this country, and we'll call it even.

"All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people."

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[–] chas437 9 years ago

You obviously haven't read my posts carefully. Therefore, you are speculating about my political affinities.

To let you know, you are dead wrong in your speculation.

Work on your reading comprehension and we'll call it even.

I'll take Punctuality

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