The Prosecutor... - Valentine Road (2013) Discussion

[–] PaulMR 11 years ago

clearly overcharged in this case.

Here we go again. Another troll to blame everyone but the murderer.

The jury made up their mind regarding guilt once they saw the brown skinned queer boy, and the young, white straight boy.

This is also the problem with Hate Crime laws. I think the nature of Hate Crime laws are counter intuitive to jurors, and they inevitably start sympathizing with the defendant.

Cite facts to prove your argument.

This especially happens when you put a 14 year old on trial as an adult in a murder case.

Really? https://www.google.ca/#q=teens+convicted++for+murder

No doubt, some of the jurors were bigoted. No jury is perfect.

I really don't know how to respond to this. If you watch the film, you will see three proudly anti-gay bigots. They were jurors.

When I consider this case I see all kinds of blame to go around,

Only one person shot Larry. There is no blame to be shared there.

and I will never treat a 14-year old kid as an adult, because they are incapable of thinking like or making the decisions of an adult.

And Larry will never get to make adult decisions. Sadly, you don't seem too concerned about that point.

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[–] chas437 11 years ago

A lot of pure speculation there, why don't you cite evidence that "The jury made up their mind regarding guilt once they saw the brown skinned queer boy, and the young, white straight boy"?

We saw three jurors who were morons and bigots, but we know nothing of the other nine. There are a large percentage of adults who would never consider charging a 14 year-old child as an adult under any circumstances, and I'm one of them. The prosecutor seems to think such people are innately evil, but so be it.

The prosecutor blaming the jury is rich.

So should we lower the drinking age so that 14 year olds can buy alcohol? Should we have them in the military? By your logic, they are adults, and responsible for all their actions.

Hate Crime laws are very controversial, just google it. Crimes are crimes, and should be prosecuted equally under the law, that's all I'm saying. Appeasing the pathologically politically correct is not in the greater interest of society, and is the downfall of California.

"For dark is the suede that mows like a harvest"

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[–] imadbasayev 11 years ago

You're not going to get far explaining things to this lot. They're obsessed with the fact that a gay kid was killed, and anyone with an opinion different that theirs is a racist homophobic bigot. Never mind that he was a sexual bully who enjoyed embarrassing his male classmates. Typical insults from weak minded pc monkeys who can't make an argument based solely on the facts of the case.

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[–] justKryptonite 10 years ago

Do you remember which kid it was with a hole in his head?? He did not do anything that deserved that, gay or not. The fact that there were bigots involved is not really in dispute, watch the movie! What would you have wanted if it had been Brandon who had been killed? Although then the gay panic defense could not have been used so who knows, but I can tell you that IMO jurors would not have been wearing braclets supporting the killer. This case is about a couple of boys who deserved more in life, but at least Brandon is still getting a chance.

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

You are aware that all the jurors voted to convict right? The reason for the hung jury, if I remember correctly, was that they couln't agree on what charge (1st degree, 2nd degree etc) to convict. They all agreed though that it wasn't a hate crime.

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[–] gold19 11 years ago

Obviously the op is not a troll PaulMR. My views differ from the ops views but the op made a clear cut and coherent argument to support their point. I believe Brandon should have been tried as an adult but I'm not always right and a debate can be had about the topic. Now, as to the poster saying Larry "bullied" Brandon I'd have to disagree. Brandon obviously wasn't gay, but Larry asked him out (one time not repeatedly) anyway and I can see how Larry's behavior was inappropriate but not bullying. The only way I could be offended or feel bullied by a gay/transgender man asking me out was if I myself was against homosexuals for religous reasons, or if I were homophobic. I've had gay men ask me out and I said "Sorry dude I don't find guys attrative, but thanks". I wasn't offended and we know Brandon wasn't religous. I dont think that everyone who debates for Brandons cause is a homophobe, but if you think a gay kid asking out a straight kid one time is bullying then you are infact a homophobe...

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[–] gold19 11 years ago

I also wanna add that even though I believe Brandon should have been tried as an adult I do feel that most homicides involving a minor as the murdered should be tried in juvenile court. I do make certain exceptions and this case just happens to be one of them. That being said I fully respect and would listen to most arguments for Brandon being tried as a juvenile.

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[–] antonio8885 11 years ago

Oddly enough Prosecutor Maeve Fox was the only adult I liked in this documentary! I couldn't decide whether she was a bleeding heart liberal (which by definition would encompass most causes or issues) at first but her anti-Brandon stance quickly surfaced...yeah she was watching his county juvenile jail fights on her computer but couldn't admit his prison behavior as evidence in the trial, as I'm sure that would be inadmissible. In the end, she compromised and gave him 20 instead of life, plus she didn't pursue a second trial b/c of the jury bias in that area! I liked her calm demeanor and classy presence unlike the other totally trashy women featured in this film!

Ultimately she shouldn't have tried him as an adult, as that was a major factor in the case! But like I said at least she accepted the defense's deal in the end (but both she and the defense duo seemed shell-shocked by their end result!).

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[–] igetitfaster 11 years ago

I couldn't decide whether she was a bleeding heart liberal

Must you "decide" what she is?

Seems nobody learns a thing.

Watch Me Win

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[–] antonio8885 11 years ago

I meant at first I thought she was a victims/youth/gay rights advocate possibly mixed in with her own agenda so what??? I liked the woman regardless because she did her freaking job w/o canonizing Larry a Saint like the Brandon bandwagon jumpers! Maeve Fox should have tried him as a juvenile and admitted her mistakes regarding jury selection, but ultimately struck a deal that pleased neither side...at least she compromised instead of bulldozing Brandon into another trial and possible life sentence! Plus she had class unlike the rest of the trash in that town!

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[–] chas437 11 years ago

I agree with what you say about the women in this film. I suppose I just see Mauve Fox as a typical overly aggressive prosecutor out to make a name, with possible ambitions of higher office.

What was the point of her showing the videos of Brandon's fights? Whose idea was that? To me that showed how obsessed she was, I believe she muttered some thing like "its no wonder they can't come up with a defense". Of course those would never be admissible in Court.

One thing she said that really bothered me was regarding jury selection; I believe she said something to the effect of "I'm worried about stealth jurors, those who will lie because they want to be on the jury and they don't believe in trying juveniles as adults, they are anti-gay bigots". You see, she lumps those who don't believe a 14-year old should be tried as an adult, with homophobic bigots. That is just moronic.

Also, entering the doodlings of a 14-year old in Court was beyond ridiculous. When I was that age, I did the same thing in class when I was bored.

I suppose it possible that she was under so much pressure from the gay rights crowd, that she had to make bad decisions. But when she blames the jury for her failings, its a bit pathetic.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] Mitch0110 11 years ago

I'm assuming she showed those videos to prove that Brandon was not some innocent, miunderstood kid who shot Larry because he was "sexually bullied". Rather, Brandon is just a violent person. Being 14 years old isn't being 4. Brandon most certainly has/had the mentality of an adult.

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[–] igetitfaster 11 years ago

I'm assuming she showed those videos to prove that Brandon was not some innocent, miunderstood kid who shot Larry because he was "sexually bullied". Rather, Brandon is just a violent person. Being 14 years old isn't being 4. Brandon most certainly has/had the mentality of an adult.

Watch Common Sense Win

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[–] chas437 11 years ago

Those videos mean absolutely nothing, without context. Maybe Brandon had to fight for his own safety, you don't know. This is why they were not used in Court.

Your last statement is pure speculation.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] igetitfaster 11 years ago

The documentary wasn't the court case. The documentary was meant to inform the viewer of the story. The story involves Brandon which includes his violent temper.

There is a lot of stuff in the doc that couldn't be used in court. Shall we list them all?

Watch Me Win

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[–] gold19 11 years ago

From the videos it looked as though Brandon was the aggressor in the jail fights but thats how it was editing into the documentary to look like. Obviously he fought with those other inmates but there might be 20 videos of Brandon getting jumped by those same inmates that we'll never see. We just don't know.

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[–] chas437 10 years ago

You are exactly right, we are shown exactly what the filmmakers want us to see, nothing more. This documentary's bias and agenda couldn't be more obvious. Some people just don't get this. When it comes to issues like this, even intelligent people somehow put the blinders on.

Bottom line, there are many things none of us know about the details of this incident, but there are many here who feel free to fill in the blanks with speculation.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

It's not even about the filmmakers, it was the prosecutor who chose which jailhouse videos to show, so she obviously chose the ones that showed him in a negative light. People should know enough about jail/prison to understand that fighting is not uncommon there.

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[–] chas437 10 years ago

That's true, but we don't know what other information the filmmakers chose to leave out. If you read one of the reviews above, it states that Brandon's overall behavior in juvenile prison was actually good.

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] igetitfaster 10 years ago

it states that Brandon's overall behavior in juvenile prison was actually
good.

what did he do to get into prison?

Watch Me Win

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[–] imadbasayev 10 years ago

Don't worry he'll get out and be a productive member of society one day, and you can be happy that the system worked in the end as he wasn't tried as an adult. Everybody wins.

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[–] Great_Gazoo 10 years ago

Also, entering the doodlings of a 14-year old in Court was beyond ridiculous. When I was that age, I did the same thing in class when I was bored.

Are you stupid or just completely ignorant toward the facts of this case?

Brandon was indoctrinated with some pretty messed up beliefs. His mother has stated the worse thing to ever happen to Brandon was living with his father who was a raging antisemitic racist. She stated that Brandon's father regularly used every 'hate' word you can think of. These statements from Brandon's mother aren't from the documentary but she has stated these things across other interviews. Look it up. Likewise, many students have stated that Brandon regularly called black kids the N-word at their school. Anyone who thinks there was no meaning behind his "doodles" is a blithering idiot. Brandon's oldest brother was best friends with the leader of the SSL neo-nazis. All of these things influenced Brandon- especially his father's behavior... this all according to his own mother.

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[–] moosefeathers 10 years ago

I think she didn't over charge. clearly a heinous crime and this gay panic thing is just a pathetic lie. it's more of a hatred thing.

Swing away, Merrill....Merrill, swing away...

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[–] Great_Gazoo 10 years ago

The prosecutor was cunning and as smart as a whip. She got everything she wanted.

Come on guys, you do realize that they never even made it to a second trial? Brandon pleaded guilty. PLEADED GUILTY. If he wanted to plead guilty, why not do it before the first trial? Clearly he did not want to plead guilty. He pleaded guilty after he was instructed to by his defense team. Why? Because they knew they wouldn't stand a chance on the second trial.

The prosecutor tried to get a balanced jury and the first trial was a mistrial. You guys do realize that means for the second trial she would have gone gung-ho and picked a very liberal pro-gay jury. That is why Brandon pleaded guilty. The prosecutor was going to make sure she didn't make poor jury selections the second time. If Brandon hadn't pleaded guilty, the prosecutor would have picked a liberal jury that would have given him a 50 to life sentence after trying him as an adult. THAT is why he pleaded guilty the second time despite clearly wanting a court battle as proven by the first trial.

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[–] chas437 10 years ago

If this "smart as a whip" prosecutor knew she could a conviction in a second trial, why did she make a deal?

She did indeed make a deal. The defense took the deal probably because this pro bono work was bankrupting them. Brandon may have plead guilty, but it was part of a deal by which he got 21 years instead of life. Do you realize this? Prosecutors don't get to select the entire jury, do you realize this? In a potential second trial, Brandon might have been acquitted of Murder one, you don't know.

Again, loads of pure speculation....

Save me from the people who would save me from myself

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[–] roymunson-04650 7 years ago

If a 14-year-old shot someone you loved (premeditated) in the head twice, what would be a fair sentence?

Eric the Midget would be able to figure out you're nuts

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