MovieChat Forums > The Duke of Burgundy (2015) Discussion > Felt like the sexuality was sucked right...

Felt like the sexuality was sucked right out of the sex


Here's the problem. The movie is beautiful. The sound is amazing. The sets are amazing. The concept is interesting. But just as I felt with his last film, Berberian Sound Studio, the sum of the parts doesn't add up. I'm not one to put in spoilers, but I can say that for me, I feel like reality sometimes ruins fantasies or sexuality, I sure don't want my movies to ruin the fantasies or sexuality. This is a movie all about sex that is so unerotic you wonder why the director chose to make a movie about sex. Granted, I was at the Q&A after the movie and the director explained it very well, and it was interesting to hear his take on it. He was interesting and intelligent, and I met him afterward and he was very nice and approachable. I wanted to like this, I really did. I'm hoping one day he makes a movie I really enjoy.

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I was never under the mistaken belief that this was supposed to be 'erotic'. It would have been made in a much different way if so.

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Maybe if you had seen this trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-xIMBnclyA

you would have thought differently.

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[deleted]

Yep, and that's my problem. One of the worst things is when you go to a theater expecting some type of movie and get another, the whole time you feel like you were cheated. I felt that way about Black Snake Moan, a film that was billed pretty much as a throwback to an exploitation film, while it ended up being a more serious drama.

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It's clearly been marketed as ...


My experience is this happens all too often, especially with very creative ("genre-busting") foreign films, but occasionally even with domestic mainstream features.

And trailers -which are made by completely different people than those that made the film- are so frequently awful (giving away the entire plot, showing all the good parts, giving the wrong impression what the film is about, etc.) that I use them for nothing more than a guide to which films to research further, not as a guide to which films to actually see.

And the misdirection isn't just a PITB for viewers. The mis-marketing is likely to show up even in IMDb listings as an arguably incorrect genre classification, particularly if the mis-marketing effort also controls the film's website. And worst of all, some films become permanently mis-branded, so the next couple generations faces the same misinformation, and the film never gets recognized as it should, not even when the "new genre" it invented catches on and becomes common.

My sad experience also is the director basically can't do anything about it. If the director objects right away, the film simply doesn't get distributed at all. If the director later refuses to cooperate in the mis-marketing campaign, at that point they're sabotaging the attendance of their own film, and are faced with the dismal choice of either folks seeing it for the wrong reasons, or folks not seeing it at all.

That's why I generally ignore the marketing, and instead rely on word of mouth, a few reviewers I trust, knowledge of the programming habits of the theaters I frequent, and even consolidating websites (although it's sometimes hard to avoid the spoilers there).

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I cannot agree with you more. Personally I do not watch trailers for films I plan to see, and I try to read as little as I can about any films I haven't seen. Sometimes I will scan an article to see if the subject matter is appealing, or watch a bit of a trailer to see if the cinematography appeals to me. But generally I prefer going in as blind as I can while still choosing to see movies I feel will appeal to me. Since mainly I like odd, offbeat topics, horror, foreign, and disturbing, it's pretty easy to tell what is going to fit into that genre. Short descriptions are great as it rarely gives too much plot. I trust certain theaters to give spoiler free descriptions most of the time. This film was unfortunately the only trailer Lincoln Center was playing, and IFC Center was also playing it for a couple weeks during a time I was at both of these theaters. So I had no choice but to sit through the trailer at least a dozen times. The same happened with The Babadook. By the time I had watched The Babadook trailer a dozen times I had figured out the whole plot of the movie, and I was pretty spot on this time. Slightly ruined it for me, but better to be right then led astray and find out the film is nothing like the trailer.

The Duke Of Burgundy trailer is so far from what the movie is about it was a real let down. Had I walked into this much more blind to what it was going to be I may have been less critical of it, but trailers can really set you up for disappointment. Obviously if you just stumbled upon this film you might find it fun or charming or entertaining, but when it is thrown at you as a sexy hot indie film, and you get something completely different you don't exactly feel like things have been represented fairly. The unfortunate thing about how humans process things is that we come to a situation with expectations, usually set up by others. Most of us are not very good at completely tuning these out, and this was a situation where I expected much more than I got.

I remember hearing Larry Cohen talk about his film Bone, which he says was marketed as a blacksploitation film, when it was meant as a comedy, a social satire on how white people viewed blacks at the time. But the fact that it was marketed as a drama, or horror movie, made no sense and the audiences that went to see that kind of a movie were sorely disappointed. Thankfully I saw Bone with little knowledge of what I was seeing, I was familiar with Larry Cohen's work and knew I liked his stuff, and knew well enough to not "expect" something from him other than the unexpected. I wish there were more filmmakers who had that kind of artistry nowadays.

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This is a movie all about sex that is so unerotic you wonder why the director chose to make a movie about sex.


Actually, I disagree... this movie wasn't about sex. At all. I did expect this film to be more "erotic" based on what little I knew of it, and I totally would have been okay with it if it was "sexier", but once the real story of the two women actually starts to reveal itself after the first 10 minutes or so, and I realized it wasn't about sex, I didn't need it to be. I kind of feel like your reaction is something that a lot of people in the audience are supposed to have though, because it helps us to identify with Cynthia, who's sort of unfulfilled by the lack of intimacy in this ritual that she goes through.

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It is about sex, though it isn't sexy. If the ads weren't completely going on about how erotic it was I wouldn't have come in with any expectations, which is always my preference anyways. But I was bombarded with the trailer, so much so that I was forced to expect what I didn't get. That being said, this movie is about sex, and relationships in general. But the director made it clear in the Q&A after that the goal was not to be sexual, but to expose the way sex works in relationships, this was not supposed to be a "sexy" movie. I must say he fulfilled that idea 100% for me, there was nothing sexy about this movie past the first 10 minutes. I respect him for making it, it was beautiful in many ways, the sound was amazing, the sets great, but overall between the misleading advertising and trailers and the fact that I don't go to the movies to see things made more boring than real life, I was disappointed.

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I think there is a sensuality to the film. I don't think it's sexy though and I think that's the point. In fact much of it's fetish scenes I found funny! The sitting on the face stuff and the conversations they have!!

It took me some time to understand what the film was about (at first I thought it was going to be pretentious and meaningless... but it ended up really moving me to the extent that it even made me cry!) which is really about any relationship: the power within it and what a person may feel deep down. It's really a film about Cynthia. She is trapped in the repetitive fetish-aspect of this relationship: afraid of losing this younger woman she doesn't feel really loves her beyond this role-play. She's afraid of growing old and being alone and that she is not far from not being able to continue with these games which she engages in any case for her lover's pleasure more than her own.

I saw Berberian Sound Studio too and I didn't much like that. Here, the film really worked for me though. I loved the butterflies too. Beauitful like the relationship, or like Evelyn, but the intensity becomes too much... scary, oppressive... Aaanywayy, not entirely sure how to explain. It did take me some time to get into the film, but I did in the end and loved it, largely thanks to what I felt was a wonderful performance from Sidse Babett Knudsen. I agree, it isn't sexy though... I mean surprisingly un-sexy given what much of the content is!

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I don't think that, looking at the larger picture, the movie loses anything on account of the sex scenes not being especially erotically charged.

In the morning I read Mass, then we descended through the clouds.

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Seems like I'm out on a limb here. I found it very erotic. I wouldn't have said no to a bit more skin - but it wasn't needed.

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I found the film erotic and sensual. Different horses for courses is what I say!

A bird sings and the mountain's silence deepens.

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I thought that the sex was supposed to be unerotic in order to show us Cynthia's take on being involved in this fetish that she doesn't really enjoy.

"No man is just a number"

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Well, this is what I said in an earlier comment on this thread :

But the director made it clear in the Q&A after that the goal was not to be sexual, but to expose the way sex works in relationships, this was not supposed to be a "sexy" movie.

So according to the director it was not meant to be sexual, but to be about sex in a relationship. Like I've mentioned earlier as well, my only problem was the trailer and the marketing, the misleading nature of them ruined my experience. Not sure I would have liked it otherwise, but I couldn't view it objectively at that point.

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I would like to clear something up here. The film was not about sex, the film was about bdsm. bdsm often includes sex but definitely not always and is a much bigger thing, it is not always erotic, it can even be brutal and revolting.

bdsm and sex are entirely different, this film was not about sex or eroticism, it was about bdsm.. And in my opinion this film is about a dysfunctional D/s relationship, we have a submissive and a dominant, but soon enough you find out that the submissive is only submissive when SHE feels like it and that the dominant is actually very selfless. It's not something very common in D/s relationships which is why this film might be interesting.

I however (knowing as much about bdsm as i do) did not feel the characters and was kind of unimpressed with the film as a whole. I'm not quick to call a film pretentious (as i like Lars von Trier's films and people often consider those to be pretentious) but personally i would classify this film as a pretentious one.
I feel like the film is trying really hard to be profound and different but i didn't like the actors, the story could have been better and really i also didn't care for the general 'feel' of the film, it's kinda moody but i feel like it even half-asses that feeling of moodiness.

So, i would say this is a film about bdsm (which is a rare subject for movies), not an erotic/sexual one like many might expect considering the general theme but aside from the fact that it is not a 'sexual' bdsm film i also feel like it didn't quite deliver, i had hoped for a more intense dynamic between the actors and perhaps some more exciting moments.

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I'm not clear on the distinction you make between sex and bdsm. AFAIC this film is about an emotional dynamic ritualised through the b and d of bdsm. There was plenty of eroticism and sexuality even though it is not grinding sex.

I'm scared of the middle place between light and nowhere

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