It can't be just me - Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance) (2014) Discussion

[–] BeanieBabyProfits 9 years ago

I disagree.

It's exactly what you say it isn't. It's a bunch of small subplots that vaguely tie together only because the characters know each other. All of these subplots mean nothing. I will give you that it is some of the BEST acting I have seen but the story is simply pointless.

What is your take away from the film? You can't tell me that you are that pleased with a bunch of mini subplots and relationships between characters. That can't be why you think it's the best movie ever. So what is it?

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[–] enzo_corte_vieira 9 years ago

It's basicaly the fact that I felt that what was said was really well written and explored deeply into our human nature. It's not like I understand the ending completely (obviously I have my interpretation) but it feels like a unique experience that made me laugh and feel for the characters, all backed up by their own problems and all trying to deal with life under the same roof. I easily understand why some might not like it, but to me it is amazing. I don't know if you enjoyed The Tree of Life but it is another example of a film that is about many things, leaving some sort of ambiguity to it all. That's why I love Birdman.

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[–] charmedx321 8 years ago

Exactly my sentiment. The only part of the film that i truly found compelling was when he confronted the times critic, Lindsy Duncan. All the rest was Blah and felt like filler to get you to the end which was pointless as well, but wonderfully acted filler none the less.

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[–] devo33 7 years ago

I agree. When he ranted about structure and character development he totally dismantled her arguments about Hollywood celebrities not being real actors.

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[–] SforSmile 9 years ago

Why is the story pointless!? Furious 5 is pointless and all this other crap grossing millions of dollars.
The story can't be pointless as it deals with real issues of everyday life, it's the opposite of pointless!

"Some people are immune to good advice."
-Saul Goodman

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[–] benkarkis 8 years ago

I'm with you.

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[–] xxpo 9 years ago

In my opinion, it's the best film ever made (until now, of course).

People also said the same thing about another film.

And here's the review of the other film that also reminds one of this film:

... is about the struggles involved in the creative process, both technical and personal,

and the problems artists face when expected to deliver something personal and profound with intense public scrutiny, on a constricted schedule,

while simultaneously having to deal with their own personal relationships.

It is, in a larger sense, about finding true personal happiness in a difficult, fragmented life.

... also is about the alienating effects of modernization.

Can you guess which film this review is talking about???

Do you see how the review of this other film can also be applied to this film as well???

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[–] enzo_corte_vieira 9 years ago

Is it Synecdoche, New York?

But what are you trying to prove. Even if it talks about the same thing it doesn't mean it's just as good. Although, it is always a matter of opinion.

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[–] xxpo 9 years ago

No.

It's a review of another even more famous film that also won lots of awards.

The point being made is the way this BIRDMAN film also seems to be a REMAKE of the other film (even though the story is different and also isn't the same story).

But the THEME is definitely the same:

The film is introverted, a sort of private monologue interspersed with glimpses of reality.... dreams are always surprising and, in a figurative sense, original, but his memories are pervaded by a deeper, more delicate sentiment

Anyhow, after watching this film the other film immediately came to mind, and it's also amazing how more people don't seem to have made a connection between the 2 of them.

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[–] shelemm 9 years ago

Does this OTHER movie have someone doubting himself at every turn?

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[–] xxpo 9 years ago

Oh yes. Most definitely!!!

Have you never seen or heard of 8 1/2 before???

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/great-movie-8-12--eight-and-a-half-1963

8 1/2" is the best film ever made about filmmaking. It is told from the director's point of view, and its hero, Guido (Marcello Mastroianni), is clearly intended to represent Fellini. It begins with a nightmare of asphyxiation, and a memorable image in which Guido floats off into the sky, only to be yanked back to earth by a rope pulled by his associates, who are hectoring him to organize his plans for his next movie. Much of the film takes place at a spa near Rome, and at the enormous set Guido has constructed nearby for his next film, a science fiction epic he has lost all interest in.

The film weaves in and out of reality and fantasy. Some critics complained that it was impossible to tell what was real and what was taking place only in Guido's head,

CLIP HERE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=140&v=sDOKE-x1uyo

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[–] ctilley_007 9 years ago

the movie you are referring to is from 1963, it does cover some of the same topics, but i would consider birdman a much different film, and much more relevant to modern times, i think birdman is better than 99 percent of movies that come out these days and one of the best movies ive seen in a very long time, one of the best of all time might be an exageration but definitely an amazing work of art

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[–] germanmaestri 8 years ago

Man you should really watch more movies

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[–] Eric266 9 years ago

I didn't get the movie. I like the actors involved, respect the talent and the crafting of the film, but it was just...boring. The few times the movie lit up for me it then went to a scene of darkness that just felt awkward.

My memory foam pillow says it can't remember my face. I can tell its lying.

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[–] jhill804 9 years ago

A lot of people on here are talking about this film's similarity to other films as being a negative.

Those people know absolutely nothing about filmmaking, character development or archetypes.

If you want to have success making movies, you have to understand these things. If you want to have success watching movies, all you really need is a play button and a stop button.

I remember reading one time about how Die Hard and Schindler's List are the same. Folks scoffed at that, too. Mainly because they liked one movie and didn't like the other one.

People get grumpy about things they don't understand. Some people on here rated Birdman 1 star. Their world is quite small.

This is simply a great movie and it fits the profile of dozens of films in the Top 100, from Shawshank Redemption to The Hustler. If people can't appreciate greatness when they see it, then there's nothing you can do for them.

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[–] enzo_corte_vieira 9 years ago

Thank you! I know it is a matter of taste but there are always universal ways to know if something is truly amazing or not.

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[–] narratology 9 years ago

Not sure there is any "universal way" to know if something is amazing, as there will always be someone who doesn't get the proverbial joke, whatever the joke may be. Which isn't even a burn on the someones; nothing can appeal to absolutely everyone. There must even be a sad few who would watch Shawshank Redemption and find it not a comment on perseverance and spirit, but an inappropriate glorification of prisoner life. =P

To your original question, and if I'm honest, Birdman has become my favorite film, because I find my self still drawn to its art, still considering its mirroring of questions which can only be unanswered in real-time but which likely shouldn't be ignored. My favorite thing about it is probably the way that it built a story which lives not "in real life", but in the psyche -- because in the end, that's where we all really live. It's a prism through which persons who are so inclined can examine their own relationship with various elements of reality, and of hyper-reality. As such, it ain't for the faint of heart.. to wit, I think a lot of the misplaced anger about this film (amazing the reactions it draws...) comes from some understandable frustration.

However, I can't quite decide if I prefer it to Hal Ashby's Being There, which to me is still the loveliest (and oh so humorous) tap on the shoulder with regard to conscience and humanity, and the complications of traveling about with a pure heart amidst the ensnarements of modern society.

“A most powerful being, an unknown sage — he is called Self. He inhabits your body, he is your body.”
— Friedrich Nietzsche

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[–] conrrad 8 years ago

" narratology" -

1) Have you thought about / explored the influences that abound, especially Shakespeare? There are many flat-out allusions, and far more kind of latent-type allusions.

2) Not for nothing, but really responding because you brought up The Shank and seemed to suggest that it's seen as "a comment on perseverance and spirit" by most who like it? I know it has a following and I did enjoy it myself; I also read the Stephen King 'novella' and taken together, it is obviously Stephen King's 'fantasy fulfillment' of "What would it be like for someone like me to go to Prison - and be The Hero of The Prison!?!"

Stephen King, unlike most [esp male] popular writers, does not 'make the main character / narrator that specific Hero Type' - and when he finally created The Shank, he most obviously based The Hero on his own fantasy of what a true Hero would be like; as well as a highly inaccurate portrayal of Prison and Prison Life and Prisoners.

So when a totally unreal, fantasy world is created and then populated by characters who are realistic enough to fool many movie-goers, people seem to actually take it seriously when it's simply very well-done Manipulation just like all of the others.

Just a thought - my immediate reaction for which I found a lot of support... (and I know it is Sacrilege to many to ever, ever Put Down THE SHANK!)

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[–] abuonvinorosso 9 years ago

Um, yeah.....well, not really.

When we judge art to be "truly amazing or not" this judgement can either be based upon a "matter of taste" OR a "universal ways to know", but never both. The two approaches are mutually exclusive, by definition. If you want to shun the post-modernist idea (i.e. that every opinion is valid) by insisting there "are always universal ways to know" when art is actually good, I am fine with that and might even agree with you, but let's at least be honest in our snobbery here!

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[–] thecurl 9 years ago

To your original question, I LOVE THIS MOVIE. I'm not sure if Birdman is my favorite movie of all time, but it's definitely up there, and certainly my favorite of the last several years.

I'm not sure if you're still following this thread since it's been a couple of months, but I guess I'm interested in asking you a question back: should it matter what other people think when it comes to how much you enjoyed a movie? I mean that question without malice or judgement: why does anyone else's perspective on a movie matter if it has affected you as deeply as it clearly has?

I can imagine why it might be important to keep up with the zeitgeist of popular opinion, say if you were in the business of selling advertising or needed to give out an award... But from the content of your posts, you don't seem like you've just arrived to movies and you seem to have a firm handle on what you love about it. That's awesome!

I can see the value in finding a community of people with a common interest, but generally I hope you know that you don't need permission from anyone to think that something's great. You're allowed to love a movie that's one star. Sites like IMDb or Yelp have really popularized the notion that something has an inherent value (or, as you put it just now, has "universal ways to know if something is truly amazing or not.") -- but I completely disagree. Sure, it's maybe useful to know if you're in the minority or majority on a belief. It's okay to not like something (respectfully, of course) just as it's okay to love something deeply than not everyone does.

I happen to agree with you in the case of Birdman- I think it's a truly exceptional film. But these people in the thread explaining all of the ways that you're wrong have zero authority on what you're allowed to love. Neither does a movie's star rating. None of it has "universal value."

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[–] jamesl9 9 years ago

It's just you. This film is incredibly overrated. Insanely, absurdly overrated.

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[–] enzo_corte_vieira 9 years ago

What are sone of your favourite films?

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[–] krocheav 8 years ago

I'm with you, today they can serve up tosh and call it 'different' but the observant can see it's just the same old...simply turned on its side. Make it look convoluted, difficult to explain and people will add their own analyitical interpretations until it becomes a classic, well, a classic of pretentiousness, ambiguous and empty.

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[–] jamesl9 9 years ago

It's just you. This film is incredibly overrated. Insanely, absurdly overrated.

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[–] Vendraminy 8 years ago

So what are your favorite films?

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[–] arvindh-mani 9 years ago

This is not the greatest movie ever made; not by a long way in my opinion. Having said that, I loved it. Not so much the first time, but I made it a point to watch it again after reading a fantastic interpretation of the ending on IMDb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2562232/board/nest/239206350?ref_=tt_bd_6). And the second time, I was amazed. Mind blown. I think I'll end up watching this one every once in a few months!

"Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of sh!t and came out clean on the other side."

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[–] menippus_lycaon 8 years ago

Well, the “best” film is a bit exaggerated in my view (although its an opinion I can accept) but I would agree that it is one of the best art movies out there with a very appealing, original and thought provoking character study and great performances from Michael Keaton, Emma Stone and Edward Norton.
I don’t know why it’s a problem for some people that it deals with more topics, in my view the direction guaranteed that it felt not fragmented, and I don’t share the opinion that every movie has to come out with one great conclusion to satisfy some expectations of the audience. Many plotlines (especially the ending) are open to interpretation and that’s good so.
Definitely one of my favorites.

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