I think these people are stupid. Sure, "better to die doing something you love than..." blah, blah, blah. I see all these deaths as wasted lives. There are plenty of ways to do rewarding things without risking so much. Just me I guess.
"He's not Judge Judy and executioner!"
Agree. Self-absorbed is what they are. When that guy cracked his skull open, he was rescued by first-responders, most likely a helicopter crew, that goes un-noted in the film. And the real heroes are the neurosurgeons who put his head back together.
Yeah yeah, nobility of the human spirit and hella great photography and all that. Not knocking the film. But at the end of the day, these guys are just making selfies. A neurosurgeon must master himself to achieve great heights of putting people's broken skulls together too. And what must they think when it's not some poor accident victim they're fixing, but a self-absorbed twit who only cares about his own "experience?"
Perfect action flick for the selfie generation. Exciting and entertaining, but there is nothing at stake except their own "experience." With equally well-trained and dedicated, but less solipsistic, members of society standing by to come to the rescue when our "heroes" *beep* up.
Tell that to Hillary and Mallory, and all those mountaineers who came before the "selfie" generation.
shareAs someone who was into mountaineering years ago I feel the need to respond, hopefully objectively.
As to judging climbers for what they do, I find pointless, just as I would if climbers went around judging others for what they do. Be that people doing a dangerous sport, like auto racing, MMA, scuba diving, etc. Or a dangerous job, like logging or coal mining.
As to them taking risks which put rescuers in peril, this is a long standing fallacy based on assumptions. Nearly all rescuers are volunteers, and fellow climbers. Even in the US this is so. On some mountains in the US, such as Denali, Mt. Rainier, Mt. Hood, and RMNP there are specific climbing rangers who yes, are paid for by tax payers. These rangers are total badasses I held in the highest esteem. But all of them chose their job. By and large 99% of their work is doing things like checking permits, evaluating weather, and snow conditions for things like avalanches, and advising people from making poor decisions at ranger shacks, or on the trail. It's extremely rare that a ranger is injured, let alone killed, in a rescue. And in most accidents, it's not only rangers that perform the rescue, again, many are by volunteer rescue teams.
If you look up search and rescue stats, you'll find that more people requiring rescue are lost hikers, people on watercraft, swimmers and hunters, if you're looking for a drain on resources. There are also some areas where if you do something stupid and require a helicopter rescue, even if the US Army or National Guard chalks the rescue up as training expenses for them, you can still get handed a bill. It's rare, but some states have it a law, and it's a law supported by many climbers I knew.
I personally never liked the statement when someone dies climbing (or hang gliding, skydiving, etc) they died doing what they love. That's a statement meant only to comfort loved ones. No one I ever met into climbing was okay with the thought of dying. No one I ever climbed with wanted to do something highly risky beyond their ability either. I personally think this climb, and the way it was approached overall on Meru, was within these climbers ability.
As to them being self-absorbed individuals. This I cannot completely disagree with. I personally found it upsetting when some climbers all but abandoned their families, or okay with littering for example. It was never lost on me that Alex Lowe, as great as he was, got himself killed and left a family behind. Having said that, I never liked hanging out with vagabond climbers living out of vans mooching food off working people just to climb either. But I think to do something to the level of Meru, just like a Super Bowl winning QB, you have to be completely dedicated to your craft. Whether you or I like it is meaningless, if their friends and family will put up with it.
Agree with you. I can't admire people with such little regard for the people that love them. Seems like the epitome of selfishness in order to be noticed.
shareIt's nice to care for, and do for others. But at the end of the day, it's your life, and we shouldn't have to feel that our existence is here for the sole purpose of pleasing others. If you mission in life is to conquer mountains, and that's what you need to bring peace to your soul, then *beep* do it.
For example, if you wanted to be a filmmaker, but instead, your family wanted something else for you, because the odds of success are slim, than does that mean you should pursue something else to put your family at peace?
I agree with you about most extreme sport athletes, but to me, these guys are a bit different. Most 'extreme' dudes go out and get themselves in trouble, or die because of bravado.
Conrad, Jimmy and Renan are consummate professionals. They take their craft deadly serious.
I found this film to be supremely inspiring, and I really don't care for extreme sports, i.e. base jumping.
While I admire their strength and determination, I do not fully understand their motivation. But that's really for them to decide. However, once you have a wife and kids, I think your priorities need to change a little.
Yes, these men are experts and professionals but they are taking a risk every time they climb. And no matter how skilled they are, they cannot eliminat the inherent risks due to the unpredictable nature of well.. nature itself. As we saw, an avalanche could strike at any moment, a rock might just break loose etc etc.
I thought the Renan character was the most selfish and self-absorbed of all. Yes he had a terrible accident and really worked hard to get back in shape. But going back so soon after? Conrad and Jimmy said they trusted him to make the decision, but I really wonder whether he made the decision due to his own selfish reasons and overestimation of his abilities. I felt really sorry for his girlfriend, who had absolutely no say in the matter. She didn't even know he went and booked his ticket. It's clear where his priorities lie.
Ya know what tho, that's his girlfriend, not his wife. And she chose to get into a relationship where she would have to take that second place spot. Plus, women come and go like the wind. And again, they weren't married. I would have done the same thing. Truth is, I have done the same thing, and I wouldn't change it if I could.
sharenm
shareI agree. I got a bit of an arrogant vibe from them at times, though understand a certain level of confidence and ambition is required to achieve these summits.
Whenever they'd be complaining about how harsh the conditions were or their current situation, I just struggled to feel empathy for them.
They were there by choice. Most likely getting paid considerable money through deals, sponsors and endorsements - very much unlike the pioneering heroes of Mallory's generation.
Sorry, but if I encounter a group of people on a Sunday morning complaining how bad their hangovers are, I'm unlikely to feel empathy towards them given its a self-inflicted situation. Same applied to this film.
Great cinematography and views though. One of the only films to truly make me feel like I was on a mountain with them.
By the reasoning of all you who've posted in this thread, a good deal of humanity's great achievements would never have happened because they wouldn't pass your collective risk vs. reward test. Going to the moon would be a good example.
Personal risks are taken every day by great men and women who push boundaries in the world's of business, medicine, the arts, you name it. Just because these personal risks aren't so visually shocking doesn't mean they don't exist. People eventually collapse and die from sheer exhaustion in the pursuit of countless socially destructive and unethical endeavors.
The men in this film should be an inspiration to humanity-- and to me, they seem pure of heart in their pursuit. As a collective human species we need people who take risks and fight for agendas that they find true meaning in. We also need risk averse accountants who drive to work in Volvos and shudder at the thought of daring step foot into the wilderness. For the same reason I wouldn't call those accountants cowardly sheep, I wouldn't call these climbers neglectful risk takers. I came away from this film inspired by these three men, and I aspire to their bravery and dedication.
Thanks Ty,
To my way of thinking, these guys deserve a well-reasoned defense along with some understanding and support. Climbing, granted, is a dangerous sport under the best of circumstances and is usually carried out in the worst of circumstances. But there is more than a little to be said about people who push their bodies to the outer extremes of it's limits so they can accomplish what others won't even dare to try. They do it without steroids, HGH or any of the other crap that the "athletes" people really seem to admire take for granted because, "it isn't cheating if everybody is doing it". For climbers, it's them, their partner(s) and what they've worked and trained their bodies to do pitted against some of the greatest obstacles the planet can throw at them. They're the last truly great athletes and for all they accomplish they get little to no recognition or, as in this thread, they get jumped on for the risks they take that others will never understand.
In 2009 my husband and I opened our own business. Despite a business plan, outstanding name recognition and a full schedule for the first two years we were up and running, we ultimately failed. It was a catastrophic failure and nearly cost us our house, our marriage and our own self-esteem. It was the best and worst experience of my life and we did it all on the ground.
Being alive is a risk. Having a child is a risk and both are profound enough risks that they are accepted and acknowledged as such. Who are we to judge the means by which others live and experience their own lives? Do you think for one minute that my husband and I planned to end up $80,000.00 in debt? Would you tell us not to have followed that dream because doing so meant the possible ruination of everything we had ever built together? No. You wouldn't. It wasn't your dream and it wasn't your decision to make. In many ways, the course of living a life is much like climbing a mountain. You can't possibly know for sure you'll be safe. If that were the case then there wouldn't be so many homeless people in our country. The best you can do is to plan and to train and then go after your dreams in a way that makes them achievable with as minimal risk as possible.
Meru is a beautiful, substantial testament to the human spirit and if I personally took nothing else away from it, it was a deep, connected understanding of why going back up was so important to Jimmy and Renan after everything they had lost. Jimmy said "you have to get back on the horse". I spent years hiding from the world after our failure because I had completely lost the courage it took simply to face the world and the people in it. Forget about the horse, I couldn't get off the sofa… Most days, I didn't want to get out of bed. I may be back out in the world again but I'm nowhere near being able to plan any trip back up a mountain. I admire the hell out of those guys because I understand completely what it feels like to lose everything and WANT, want desperately to find any way at all to get some of it back. That's the definition of courage. It's also the point of Meru. So before you "poo poo" the selfishness and lack of consideration of climbers all over the world, ask yourself if you have what it takes to do the work involved to follow your own dream and if you are willing to suffer the consequences if you fail. Climbers do not go out intending to fall. They work, train and plan for every contingency to prevent that because as Jon Krakauer said, "if you die because of a mistake, then you look like a fool". Since the human race in general is pretty much "all about the pride", you gotta know they stand at the bottom looking up knowing that they've planned for everything they possibly could and are willing to go from there.
It's a far cry from the thrill junkies. It's a task at hand with the tools, knowledge and understanding necessary to accomplish that task. It is worthy of respect. It has earned the right to deserve that respect and to belittle it is to belittle every accomplishment man has made over the course of history in the face of people who called them "crazy" for what they didn't understand.
Football, Boxing, Racing…. all sports with heavy casualty lists and a retirement age of about 30, many with permanent brain damage….. Are you "sorry about them too"?
"Sir, can we take a break? It appears my intelligence circuits have melted." Kryton/Red Dwarf
I always find it interesting when someone calls someone else stupid for what they do, just because you don't feel the same way about it.
I'm definitely glad that peoples' interests don't depend on a stranger's weightless opinion of them.
Time wounds all heels.
Well, someone might say that a 40-year-old man that hooks up with a 17-year-old girl is pretty stupid and risky:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1198138/board/nest/139847833?d=261071556#261071556
And I'm pretty sure it's not just me, I guess.
"...nothing is left of me, each time I see her..." - Catullus