I always assumed kelly was also abused by her dad but would never admit it she kept it to herself denying it happened. I thought this was confirmed during the caravan scene when she was having sex and we saw flashbacks. I wanted her to admit to lol but no :(
shareI was also confused by the caravan/flashback scene. I think it was a deliberate split-second thing to mess with the viewer. I started a thread about this after that episode and someone replied that it was a scene from '86 of her mum and dad but I can't find anywhere else online that discusses this - will have to watch again.
Be me, for a little while.
I took the caravan scene to just be Kel imagining all the stuff was struggling to cope with. What Lol told her, Trev's story and her mum's less than stable relationship with him.
shareI thought that the father had abused Kelly but manipulated her into believing that she was special because of it, not a victim. I think that is why Kelly reacted with such hostility towards Trev and Lol during the dinner table confession. She kept saying to both of them "what is so special about you" which I took to mean that she believed he only abused her because she was special. Although, in the end, Kelly never confesses to being abused, I feel it's left open to interpretation but that interpretation tells me that she was. Firstly, her father doesn't strike me as the merciful type, he is a predator, he preys upon the weak and the vulnerable. Secondly, the reason Kelly has a breakdown and thirdly her reaction towards Lol and Trev at the dinner table.
Best film ever made? The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
That seems like an awful stretch.
I think you've gone too far in reading in to what Kelly said. She was wondering why they'd be abused and her not and from that was justifying her own thoughts that they might be lying. She still wasn't for believing it at that point hence Lol's assertion that her mum should speak up.
It would seem clear from what Lol was saying that she was the only one abused in the family. Trev got it later on too.
In the caravan scene there were no images in Kelly's head of her being abused. It was all about her mum, Lol and Trev.
I'm 100% certain that Kelly wasn't abused. There's nothing to suggest she was in any of the dialogue of others or anything she's said.
Saying it's open to interpretation is like saying it's open that Combo might be alive. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it's open to interpretation. She wasn't abused and he's dead for sure.
If she wasn't abused:
1. Where does the emotional turmoil come from?
2. Why is she so sexually promiscuous and refer to herself as a slut?
3. Why does she assume that her own sister and her best friend are lying to her?
4. Why would they lie to Kelly about something so important, it's not an easy accusation to make if you're not being honest.
5. Why wouldn't the father abuse her, sexual predators are known for preying on the vulnerable, not for being merciful. I'm quite sure that if he was vile enough to repeatedly rape one daughter, I doubt he'd hesitate at a second daughter.
6. Why does Kelly keep referring to Trev and Lol as "special" or specifically, what was so special about them that Mick would abuse them and not Kelly?
I'm not definitively saying that Kelly was or wasn't abused. We aren't provided with enough conclusive evidence to definitively say either way, but there is a lot of evidence to question that she may have been.
The best film ever made? The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
In reply to Tyler:
1) Her father was murdered, her sister had tried to kill herself. Enough reasons?
2) Women like sex too. But in this case it seems like simply wanting to be loved and accepted, and teh best way she knew how was to exploit her looks. Its not cut and dried this one to be fair.
3) She doesn't want to believe her dad was a rapist. Nor would I. I doubt anybody would unless they already knew.
4) How do you tell your sister you killed her dad? Especially when someone else had taken the blame.
5) She was probably too young. Thankfully i don't have working knowledge of the motivations of rapists. This is a surprisingly common occurance though, a lot of child abusers try to justify their actions as punishing kids and it was easier for him to put all the blame on Lol for whatever reason. Im glad i don't have an answer for this one, as i don't want to understand why a pervert would rape one daughter and not another. Maybe he would've but didn't have the chance-its made pretty clear he hasn't been on the scene for a long time. And Trev is obvioulsy a lot older than Kelly would've been the last time he saw her. This could mean he has an age preference.
6) She is unable to understand her father raping people and is looking for excuses why Lol and Trev are wrong. She is grasping at straws so she doesn't have to accept the horrible truth about her murdered father.
1. Not really, no. Emotional turmoil is often something that comes from having been the victim of something, not someone else being the victim of something. Would the problems in her family made her depressed? Sure. Would that explain her sexual promiscuity? I'm not sure it would. Many victims of sexual abuse are sexually promiscuous. Many people who have a sibling who attempted suicide are not necessarily sexually promiscuous as a result, so it doesn't really add up.
2. And you think that's what Kelly was doing do you? Enjoying sex? Rather than allowing herself to be abused, which is effectively what was happening. She probably consented to the sex, so technically it couldn't be classed as rape, but if you think that she was 'enjoying the sex' then I think there is something wrong with you. The fact that she has a breakdown and cries whilst referring to herself as a slut is pretty clear evidence that she wasn't just 'enjoying the sex'. The argument that she wanted to be accepted makes no sense. She was accepted. She was accepted by her friends, who she rejected. She was accepted by her sister, who she rejected. She was accepted by Gadget, who she rejected. When the guys at the party who were giving Kelly crack were having sex with, that was not Kelly trying to be accepted or 'enjoying the sex'. It struck me as being much more indicative of low self-esteem and allowing herself to be abused because she felt that's all she was worth. Such feelings and such behaviour would be common in a victim of sexual abuse.
3. Okay, she doesn't want to believe her father is a rapist. Fair enough. It still doesn't make sense that both her sister and her best friend would fabricate a lie like that and it could still be that Kelly was abused and had mentally blocked the abuse out, again, not uncommon among sexual abuse victims or victims of any severe trauma, the memory erasing traumatic experiences is a healthy coping mechanism. Remember, that Kelly's reaction was extreme, she ran away from home, but note that she wasn't upset at Lol's confession that it was her, and not Combo who had murdered Mick, but much more upset at the suggestion that Mick had raped Lol and Trev. That doesn't strike you as odd?
4. Why would Lol kill Mick if he wasn't abusing her? Why would Trev agree to go along with such a vicious lie if it wasn't true? Lol might fabricate a story to justify the murder, but getting Trev to make-up and hold a lie that she was raped if she wasn't, and the mother as well? In the miniseries, the mother was supportive of Mick and rejected Lol's claims of sexual abuse, why would the mother now support Lol if she didn't also believe that Mick was a sexual predator?
5. It doesn't make much sense to me that Mick would abuse Lol but not Kelly and rape Trev but not Kelly. From the nature of his character and the fact that he was absent for so many years, I think we can safely assume that he had raped or abused other women as well. It didn't take long for him when he arrived back on the scene to rape Trev, fulfilling Lol's prophecy about his character.
6. Again, it's all open to interpretation and that's exactly what I said in my original post. There isn't enough evidence to determine definitively one way or another, but there are enough question marks for it be entirely plausible.
Best film ever made? The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
Thanks Pharrington. That saved me a lot of typing.
Tyler, emotional suffering mainly comes from involvement?
What utter pish. My mother attempted suicide. You telling me I wasn't emotionally affected by that?
My mother suffered the depression...I was the one affected by the fallout. I can assure you the emotional suffering was huge for me.
Of course Kelly would have huge emotional issues if she found out her Dad was a paedo and a rapist and that her mother did nothing to stop it.
I think you've got your view on this and you won't see otherwise despite what others are telling you is a clear possibility.
Don't twist pharrington's words either. They never said Kelly was enjoying the sex. Simply that it was her outlet to feel "love" warped as it was.
Spot on.
Just as an extra example to yours. My best friend sister was raped, that led to her getting hooked on drugs, this equally destroyed my mate and his whole family, took them years before they got to terms with it.
I know someone who was raped and didn't turn to drugs. I went to school with several people who died from Heroin ODs and didn't get raped or have a bad upbringing as such. Doesn't prove anything about Kelly being raped.
shareI'm going to say this one last time and then give up .......... I'm not saying that Kelly was abused or wasn't abused, it's open for interpretation.
Best film ever made? The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
In the sense that they might have been to Mars because we didn't see it confirmed either way, yes.
Literally everything in the show points to her not being abused.
She makes no mention of it and also denies flat out that her Dad would have considered doing it to anyone.
Even when Lol tells her Trev suffered, she still denies that he'd be like that. At that point, had it happened to her (as you described with contrived thoughts of "maybe she doesn't consider it abuse because he told her she was special") she'd have been far more open to the possibility it wasn't "just his way of loving her"
She has no visual memory of it, going by the caravan scene when it was all about the others head abused.
It's "open to interpretation" that Combo is dead because we didn't see it but everything we are shown points to the fact he is dead. He's dead and she wasn't raped by her Dad.
"In the sense that they might have been to Mars because we didn't see it confirmed either way, yes."
Yeah ... you're just being a prick. Bye.
Best film ever made? The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
You just resorted to calling someone a prick. You lost, bye.
shareI've seen the pair of you trolling every thread on this board. You are both pricks. Bye.
Best film ever made? The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
I've seen the pair of you trolling every thread on this board. You are both pricks. Bye.
Best film ever made? The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
So un-troll he leaves the same nasty message twice. Nice one.
sharePrick.
Best film ever made? The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
Tyler, are you so angry you're hitting the return key furiously now?
I doubt I've been trolling every post on the board. I think I've left comments on about three threads as things stand.
There's been a simple questioning of your stance on the Kelly situation. It seems a good few of us disagree with how you could possibly see it that way.
Prick.
Best film ever made? The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford.
I think this child has had their pocket money stopped and is in a bad mood today.
shareMaybe they're raging because their Dad touched their sibling up but not them and they don't feel special...or is it they were abused but the others weren't? I'm confused now! ;)
It's definitely too many / not enough hugs as an infant.
There's no reason to get this angry with a stranger on the internet otherwise.
He's gone all quiet. I've hit a raw nerve perhaps?
Kelly had images of her dad raping someone before Lol told her what her dad did to her and Trev. So I think she was raped or abused or at least witnessed some abuse and blocked it out. Other people may disagree and that's fine.
shareThat's exactly how I saw it
shareI just thought I would defend Tyler as I think he is getting too much unnecessary abuse for merely expressing an opinion.
I agree with his opinion 100% and there is no need for interpretation at all because 18 minutes into episode three,at the dinner table scene just after Kelly re-enters the room Woody says to her and I quote ' Because you were raped, you were raped!'
She was definitely abused, end of discussion.
How would Woody know though?
Kelly had denied he ever touched her and it is that reason why she questions Lol and won't believe her. It's also why Lol says their mum should speak up because SHE knew the father had abused Lol.
There's no mention from Lol, Kelly or her mum that Kelly was abused.
Same again as the Combo NF death theories. If Meadows wanted you to know Kelly was sexually abused by her dad then why didn't he just show it? At no point did anyone say, suggest or was shown that Mick abused Kelly. He didn't hate Kelly but he hated Lol. He saw Lol as like her mum and deserving of it. Maybe as Kelly got older he would have started to rape her too, he had a chance when he watched her sleep in bed but didn't. That's why Lol knew he had to be stopped before he did more damage.
shareAnd plus I know from personal experience that a parent can have love for one child but hate another if they don't see much of themselves in them. More so if they hate their other half or have no respect for them as the child reminds them of them. Sometimes families are complex things.
share