MovieChat Forums > This Is England '90 (2015) Discussion > The Combo/Milky resolution was outragous

The Combo/Milky resolution was outragous


Ive lived in some pretty rough places and seen my fair share of violence including having been stabbed. This was the most outlandish thing ive seen on this other wise beautiful show... It just dosnt fit..No one would go that far to deal out that level of consequences to some one who beat them up. C'mon man seriously. And the whole having all the family take him only to hand him off too two suspiciously BNP types??? who we have to assume combo knew or recognized as he freaked out. This is nuts man.. If say we were talking lol's and kells Beast Dad-YES you could see that happening ,you might believe that people would do that to some one whose crimes were so heinous but c'mon... poor end too that story arc very disappointed and the story suffered as a result.

of my mind
'' I don't know what's in there, but it's weird and it's pissed off''

reply

It's a television show, not a documentary. Meadows wrote the conclusion to Combo/Milkys story perfectly. It was brilliantly acted and made sense to the narrative of the story.

reply

I said the same thing to myself last night. It was shocking and painful to watch a man go to his death like that. The kicking and screaming reminded me of Cagney in angels with dirty faces.
iN response to the OP. I also thought that in 'real life' as this series reflects so well, this scenario was somewhat OTT. Something from the sopranos almost. If they had the can driving off for us to reach our own conclusion then I think that would've been better. Or even if the family just beat him badly in a remote place. The act of killing and the way it was done felt a little out of place for the show.

reply

matthewilli81
exactly..it didn't fit..it was a scene as you say from the sopranos..if Milky had some gangster family background you'd be ..ah ok bit extreme(still) but his family's gangster life style demand extreme but milkys never been any thing other than a good guy and his family are talked of warmly and ..oh come round and have tea...not he see my uncle on crime watch last night....

of my mind
'' I don't know what's in there, but it's weird and it's pissed off''

reply

I got the impression Milky's family had handed Combo over to his Nazi (ex) friends, who'd killed Combo for turning his back on it all. Wasn't one of the people who took him in the original film? I think he was even there when Combo beat Milky, bet his uncles didn't know that!

I don't think Milky truly knew what would happen, he thought his family would give Combo a good hiding. Instead, they turned him over to people who were capable of much more. Maybe I'm being too kind to Milky. Either way, definitely a coward, and proof that two wrongs don't make a right.

reply

See the thing is ..British skinheads far right wing groups are NOT like American white power groups, people dont get murdered for deciding to go on with their lives... its not how it works..they'd just not be welcome back at the local pub ..not taken into a room and tortured to death or what ever the hell hat was

of my mind
'' I don't know what's in there, but it's weird and it's pissed off''

reply

it had to be slaughter and disposal by hitmen. Just by the long journey, the handing over, the remote location near the coast. Milky's family paid to have him murdered. Don't see why it was the NF working with a black family, doesn't make sense.

reply

'they'd just not be welcomed back at the local pub' haaa made me chuckle. I agree, I was well confused by the entire thing. I thought maybe he'd been in prison with them? He obviously knew who they were and proper *beep* it, but I didn't recognize them.
Great acting by him though, those screams were haunting!

-
frosties are just cornflakes for people that can't face reality

reply

Why is it obvious he knew them personally? Wasn't to me. If you got driven from Sheffield to Grimsby in a van and the doors opened to a grim disused industrial site with two thugs waiting to take you away, you would think the worst and beg for your life. Combo isn't that stupid. he has served time, he's seen things. He knew he was going to his death at that point. Just because the blokes are covered in tattoos and look like thugs doesn't mean he knows them or they are NF.

reply

I just got that impression. Didn't say anything about them being NF though. I just assumed he knew them from prison by his reaction..

-
frosties are just cornflakes for people that can't face reality

reply

Would he have had to know them to have that reaction to the doors opening and realising his fate? I don't think so. If they had masks on he would have screamed and begged for his life the same when the penny dropped. I don't think he knew them at all. No evidence for that. Just a man knowing he was going to be executed and not just getting a beating by Milky's family and dropped out of town.

reply

There's no evidence that he didn't know them either. Honestly, for the most part, the resolution between Milky and Combo is up to interpretation. You could make arguments for any scenario. The characters motivations, the reason for the two white guys being the ones to kill Combo, if Milky had any idea that Combo would be killed etc. That's the beauty of it. We get enough information that it makes sense, but if you dig a little deeper you can start to interpret the whole situation in your own way. Meadows has truly delivered a masterpiece and a perfect finale.

"In J.J. we trust."

reply

It's filmed in Sheffield but it's not set there. It's an unnamed coastal town in the East Midlands.

OOM POM PAH OOM POM PAH thats how it goes...

reply

It is set somewhere inland in the East Midlands. Derby, Nottingham, Matlock, somewhere representative of around the East Mids. They drove Combo out of town and to the coast (was filmed in Grimsby). Regardless they took Combo somewhere a fair journey away from the town to dispose of him. The drive with Milky he said they'd already gone past several cafes, then the van journey took even longer. My point was you don't take someone that distance and to that kind of abandoned location to just beat them up. They could of done that in the van miles back.

reply

The Combo and Milky ending was either sloppy writing or Sean Meadows just putting far too much faith in the audience.
I would have thought better alternative endings would have been either for Combo to be dragged up to the top of that abandoned building by Milky's family/friends, with Combo screaming realizing he's not getting a beating but he's going to be killed or thrown off the roof and left to die a slow painful death alone. Or for Milky to stop Combo's demise at the last minute and come away the better man.
As it ended Milky was left looking an unsympathetic almost villainous character who slept with Lol when she was mentally unstable and vulnerable and at the same time wrecked his best friend Woody's life, and who led a supposedly reformed and remorseful man to his death.

The whole willingly going with the black guys and then being petrified as the white men dragged him out of the van made little sense. There was never any hint of Combo having problems with his past NF associates or anyone else, and the only thing I can think of that could hint at that in in This is England '86, when Combo turned up a Sean's house bleeding and collapsed, though that was never explained.
Even if Combo had enemies that wanted him dead, they could have got to him in prison and must have known where he was as he was still living in the same area after his release, and this was months after he was released from prison.

reply

Why are they NF? No evidence whatsoever they are

reply

The thing that struck me was Milky can never tell his best friends that he arranged the premeditated murder of a man they love (and one who did time to protect the mother of Milky's child) which will lead to his isolation from them and, hopefully, the guilt will eat away at him.

Gutted really because Milky was one of my favourite characters in TIE and he became that



Goodnight, good luck and may your God go with you

reply

It was just frustrating to sit through with all the archive footage spliced. He stated his reasons as wanting to have a family a brotherhood, all that was pushed aside one minute after just for some cheap Nazi heat. Poetic justice just with the thing he craved for ending him would of worked better even if it didn't fit Milky's character or his family.

reply

Why are they NF? No evidence whatsoever they are


And none that they aren't. It's as valid a theory as any.

reply

OK by that logic there is no evidence it wasn't a dream sequence or that they were in fact just joking with him for a prank. Or that Combo managed to escape in a boat with James Bond. How did he know they were NF? They didn't have swastikas all over them. He didn't recognise them otherwise he would have pleaded with them by name. He was begging for his life but he didn't say "Don't kill me Dave", "I don't want to die Biffo". They were strangers. I know enough shaven headed, tattooed body-builders or ex-doormen and none of them are NF. If you see those kind of folks you instantly think they are Nazis? It is ridiculous to draw that conclusion when there is no evidence for it. He was scared because he knew his fate was death when he was handed over in that location. He wouldn't have been taken there and handed over for anything less than execution. A black family wouldn't work with or pay a large amount of money to the NF and the NF wouldn't work with them. No further conclusion needed. Just badmen tasked to murder him in a remote location where they can dispose of him in the sea.

reply

Firstly, they were dressed for cold weather, i.e. covered up, so you don't know they weren't covered head-to-toe in tats. Secondly, not all NF affiliate are covered in tats anyway.

Basically, it's a perfectly valid theory. And move on. Don't be THAT guy who just comes online to troll everybody who disagrees with him, especially when your theory relies far more on assumption than the other.

reply

"Move on" then leaves a message getting annoyed. Think you are THAT guy pal not me. I'll leave as many messages as I wish.

reply

Annoyed? There you go again with your assumptions. Seriously man, lighten up, life will be easier.

reply

How does discussing a TV show mean I'm not taking life easy? I was talking about the show, you started with the personal insults calling me a troll because I have a different opinion about the show. Ok you aren't annoyed but you are annoying that's for sure!

reply

Had there been any evidence whatsoever they were Nazis I would agree it is valid. There wasn't. No swastikas, no banners or posters, no graffiti, no mention by Milky or his family. Zero evidence. And it is ridiculous to think a black family would give money to the NF to kill someone. If the nazis wanted him why wouldn't they go and get him instead of being handed over or kill him inside prison. Do the nazis and Milky's family hang out together, otherwise how would they know the Nazis wanted to kill him. The evidence suggests they aren't nazi far more than it suggests they are. You can believe what you want, I deal in evidence and facts.

reply

How many neo-Nazis do you know? Exactly.

Your idea of them being tattoo-covered skinhead gorillas is an outdated one, even in the 90s. And anyway, as I previously pointed out, their winter clothing would have covered any tats they had.

So there is zero evidence to suggest they weren't Mazis. Combo's reaction to seeing them, however, speaks volumes, having remained relatively calm right up until seeing them. Definitelt suggests familiarity. Both are just theories, though, and as such neither is correct.

Clearly you can't abide not having the last word, though, so I'll just leave you to argue pointlessly with everyone else. Have fun.

reply

lol. Still can't show me any evidence. Combo was *beep* scarred because of the situation and location as anyone would be. Not because he knew them. If Meadows wanted you to think he knew them or that they were NF he would have given one bit of evidence to illustrate that. OK I'm going to assume they are Italian Mafia then, because there is no evidence for it. The henchmen just came from eating spaghetti and drove a Fiat there. The room they took him to had a meat grinder and they sold him on the Bella Italia for meat. No evidence so just make it up is your argument.

reply

What a moron.

reply

Oh! Mr "I'm calling out the trolls" is using personal insults again, rather than discussing the TV show? Yes I'm the moron here clearly.

reply

You're the one aggressively claiming to know the absolute truth of a scene that was engineered to be ambiguous, so yes. You are the moron.

reply

Black family pass over racist to unknown badmen in disused industrial hell-hole near the coast. What is ambiguous about that? Spells it out pretty clearly for me. Murder and disposal. NF, magic fairies and Jesus rescues Combo on a magic carpet theories not necessary or evidenced. End of.

reply

Well when Shane Meadows gets an unexpected tax bill he cant pay and has to do yet another sequel to this rubbish to pay it off maybe it will all be explained and maybe just maybe combo isn't even dead and somehow managed to get away and has been in hiding somewhere in Skegness since 1990 and has now returned to get revenge on Milky because Stephen Graham also has a tax bill to pay so he was also desperate enough to appear in another series of this moronic drivel. So why don't we leave the arguments and insults to each other until that day comes and then we will all find out the big fat Combo mystery.

reply

On the other hand. If you said handing him over to white murderers shows the ridiculousness or irony of racism. Or the misplaced fear of different races like your own race isn't capable of evil, I would agree with you. Just don't see why they have to be NF for the point to be made about skin colour being irrelevant when it comes to good and evil. It was showing the brutality of man to man. Hence all the footage of the NF and black kids playing. Meadow's point was about hate and everyone being someone's son or daughter. What the *beep* does the henchmen being NF have to do with that point? It is powerful enough without adding speculation and ifs and buts. But thanks for turning up.

reply

My view on it -
Was that he knew he was being passed over to HitMen and that he was going to die.
I didn't personally sense that he knew who these men were.

His initial feeling was that he was going to get an absolute beating from those black guys once the van stopped and they forced him out - once he see the white guys and got dragged away, he knew what his fate was.

Personally - I'd agree, that if you knew them, you would address them by their names whilst pleading with them not to top you off.

I think he was just in total fear of dying.

He may have known those men, he may have not.
As viewers, I think each individual will see it differently and decide for themselves - unless of course, a next series is made and we are told the story.

reply

I didn't say he knew them personally, but he definitely knew what they represented. And no, he wouldn't necessarily address them by name, even if he did know them. Anyway, Captain Tantrum up there just can't handle differing opinions, so I'm done with this childish argument.

reply

lol. So you don't think he knew them now, but he knew they represented the NF by magic? Maybe it was all the hail Hitlers they were doing or the jackets with Swastikas. Maybe one of them whispered "I'm a nazi" in his ear when they picked him up? Just finally admit it. It is far far far more likely he was just *beep* scared as any man would be, taken to a remote abandoned industrial dock and met by 2 meatheads. What you are saying now is that Combo is so clever he can spot NF men on sight without any signs or signals, but not clever enough to know when he is going to be murdered in a situation that is blatantly obvious?

reply

You are clearly severely lacking in IQ points if you can't understand what I'm saying.

There was instant recognition of danger in Combo's reaction when those back doors opened. He knew what those men represented was far more serious than the men he'd been travelling with. Trust me, people who have spent time in those kind of organisations learn to recognise one another. If you can't grasp that then I feel bad for you.

reply

Reconsigning danger and recognising if someone belongs to an organisation are two different things. You are trying to worm out of this. Just admit Combo was MOST LIKELY scared of the situation, being handed over to 2 scary looking meatheads and where they had taken him, end of. You don't get taken to a place like that for a chat and a cuppa. If he was greeted by two masked men he had never met before, then he wouldn't have crapped his pants? Just calmly got out the van a Moonwalked along with a grin on his face? It had to be the NF for him to react like that? He recognised he was going to be killed not that they were NF. Ridiculous.

reply

I'm not trying to "worm out of" anything. I'm trying to explain to a simpleton something that is glaringly obvious to me.

But I shall try no more. You're just too naive and slow-witted to ever understand.

reply

You said before it was ambiguous, now it is glaringly obvious they are NF? haha. Yes, I'm so simple I can't stick to the same argument and then have to start insulting someone because my ego feels crushed.

reply

It is ambiguous, but you are arguing that what you believe happened is the absolute truth I am merely highlighting an alternative viewpoint. Like a seasoned troll you instantly hurl all of your toys out of the pram instead of just accepting said viewpoint. Life must be hard for you with that kind of attitude, but then again I expect you just do as you're told day-in, day-out like a good little boy and this is you're only release, coming on here and picking fights with people who cross you. Sounds like hell. I mean, seriously, three responses to my one? Probably four including that deleted one. Sheer desperation. I can almost smell it off the screen. Ha ha.

At the end of the day the only person who really knows the truth is Shane Meadows. And I'm past caring as he's been on a downward trajectory ever since Dead Man's Shoes. He's become a poor man's Ken Loach.

reply

Right. My life is crap, Shane Meadows is crap. I stand in awe of you O great one.

reply

*passes you a hankie*

Dry your tears, Dorothy.

reply

Here is a twist you will like. Those blokes took him up stairs and pulled of their masks and they were black dudes undercover in the NF. They let him go but Combo knew they were cops when the doors opened and he started to cry to make it look realistic. *beep* it, let's make anything up.

reply

And yes you are correct. People from different organisations can recognise each other on sight without uniform or talking. That's why when you have a trade show no one needs to wear a name badge or introduce themselves, they just know. Or when you are walking down the street you can tell who is an organ donor just by looking at them. Yes police officer here is your £100 on the spot fine, I can tell you are a cop even though you are wearing jeans and a t-shirt and don't have a badge. Well you can if you've got Combo's special powers!

reply

I literally cannot stop laughing at this debate.
It's so funny.

reply

Combo... Racist, Liverpudlian, Ex Skinhead, Defender of the pud pud, supernaturally gifted mind-reader. RIP Combo.

reply

[deleted]

This is closest to my opinion. I do agree it's quite a confusing plot arc.

My interpretation was that Combo was delivered to a bunch of very large black men. I don't get where these were Milky's family, other than they were all black. At this point it is probably assumed it's a tit-for-tat retaliation for a 'racist' beating (yes we know it wasn't racially motivated at all). And Combo accepts this.

But when he is delivered on to 2x white men in this isolated location without any harm, Combo KNOWS what this is. A cold planned murder. He doesn't recognise the men and there is nothing to suggest they are known to him, nor is it necessary to explain his sudden fear in the scene (see above).

The idea that the NF would be in league with Milky and these black thugs to punish Milky is completely illogical and utterly without evidence. Probably confused with the NF imagery of Combo's violent past and a misunderstanding that Milky and his black van passed Combo on to a couple of white people.

Milky organised a murder to repay his beating by Combo.


reply

So who do you think they were? perhaps his solicitors chasing him for their unpaid fees?, get real.

reply

Are you talking to me. If so, I thought I spelt it out quite clearly. They were people paid to kill him. I don't know what else you want - their driving licences? Don't get your point.

reply

I find Combo' s ending believable, although very sad.
We don' t know much of Milky' s family, so, there might have been members connected to criminality, or there might not, and ultimately it does not matter. My mom once when I was young told me that if somebody would rape or hurt me, she would pay a criminal to have that person killed. My family is strictly bourgeois, do not have any connection to criminality, probably just words, but you never know, maybe she would have done so if her fear was to become true.
This is the case I see here. Milky' s family have suffered greatly and have been humiliated. Some members of the family organized to have him killed as soon as there was a chance. I did not understand who were the black guys that turned up with the van at the bar, they might have been members or friends of his family, or members of a Yardie gang paid by his family, who then "sublet" the job to the skinheads at the end as they are probably specialists in "disappearances". That was a bit more contrite, still it is plausible if you keep in mind an honest thruth, that is: criminals put their ideologies aside when it' s business time.

reply

Yes the ultra pc bit at the end where Milky's relatives couldn't be shown actually killing compo so instead had to hand Compo over to the stereotype White fellas was indeed pathetic. Obviously that wasn't surprising in a show that pushed as many cultural marxist ideas as possible into the lives of the primitive working class little Englanders. Still a great show though.

reply

I didn't think it was PC at all.

I just suggested that the fact Milky and his dodgy black associates handing over Combo to a couple of white men in a deserted location immediately signified to Combo that this was not a simple retaliation beating for a supposed racial attack.

In the end the black Milky was pretty much shown as the (rather weak and pathetic) villain?

Compo?

reply

I can see your point but i think it works thematically. Milky chose the wrong path, violence over forgiveness, and he ruins his soul as a result. I thought it was devastating and it quite upset me.

Jean and Scotty never have to worry.

reply

This is a response to all. I think you're missing something; Milky didn't arrange Combo's death. A promise was made to/by his family when Milky was on his death bed from the beating. Milky was crying because he felt compelled to keep that familial promise of giving them Combo (or at least lead them to him), knowing that it would probably result in his death. Milky wanting Combo to die is out of character. Keeping a promise to his family no matter what the effect, isn't. In this context, that story arc makes more sense.

reply

Once Upon a Time in the Midlands is superior.

reply

Combo was NOT killed- he was returned to his believed rightful home among the brainless white racist community-everything he was trying to escape from and erase from his life-hence his violent protests.

This plot-line is in fact lifted from Paderewski's beautiful tragi-comic novella-"My Life with a Kumquat".
Paderewski sadly died recently in a car crash in his beloved Audi-hence the sad but heart-rending "Berlin Song" by Einaudi-played at the end of the final episode.

And so it goes...

reply

Apologies if this has already been said, but Combo did more than beat Milky up. He beat him within an inch of his life. Could have killed him. How many parents say they would kill anyone who harmed their child? It was totally realistic.

reply