MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion > Ranking the Films by Critical and Audien...

Ranking the Films by Critical and Audience Response

posted 4 years ago by FilmBuff (6678)
51 replies | jump to latest

There are a number of ways to determine a general ranking for the 8 films so far, but I think perhaps creating a cumulative score that gives equal weight to the three most reliable scores-- Metascore, Rotten Tomatoes' Tomatometer, and IMDB audience rating-- gives the most accurate ranking of the films.

The number in parentheses represents the combined score of each film when giving equal weight to each of the three factors listed above, and while I personally felt the prequels grew worse over time the popular opinion seems to be that they got a little bit better over time. Regardless, I think this represents about how most people would rank the films.

Star Wars (22)
The Empire Strikes Back (22)
The Force Awakens (16)
The Last Jedi (15)
Return of the Jedi (13)
Revenge of the Sith (11)
Attack of the Clones (6)
The Phantom Menace (3)

reply
formatting help
[–] Recognizer (386) 4 years ago

Guess I'm not most people, then :P I agree with the first 2 entries, but diverge wildly after that.

reply
formatting help
[–] FilmBuff (6678) 4 years ago

I'd rank them more or less similarly. I think Star Wars is head and shoulders above the rest, and the only truly great film of the bunch. The Empire Strikes Back and The Force Awakens are both top-notch sci-fi/action dramas, and The Last Jedi and Return of the Jedi are both close to their predecessors but lacking. The prequels seemed to grow worse with each release. In list form,

Star Wars

The Empire Strikes Back
The Force Awakens

Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi


Giant Dip


The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
Revenge of the Sith

How would you rank 'em?

reply
formatting help
[–] Recognizer (386) 4 years ago

A New Hope
Empire
Return of the Jedi (yes, I actually like it)
Revenge of the Sith
The Force Awakens
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

(Giant dip)

The Last Jedi

reply
formatting help
[–] FilmBuff (6678) 4 years ago

I don't dislike Return of the Jedi by any stretch. I think it's more that now that I'm grown up and watching it through adult eyes I see not only what it lacks, but all these hints as to what was to come. With each of the original sequels you can see in hindsight Lucas slipping into the formula of giant set piece battles, special effects, and characters designed to sell toys taking a front seat, with plot, character motivation and character development being brushed off to the side, a formula that was ramped up to 11 in the prequels.

And tbh sometimes I do think Attack of the Clones is the worst of the prequels. How does one really pick just one, you know?

reply
formatting help
[–] LordBAElish (2015) 4 years ago

Empire Strikes Back
New Hope
Return of The Jedi
Force Awakens
Last Jedi
Rogue One
Revenge of The Sith
Solo
Phantom Menance
Attack of the Clones

reply
formatting help
[–] Ace_Spade (9336) 4 years ago

I think you're doubling-up on the Metascore and the Rotten Tomatoes, aren't you? Inasmuch as they would be from the same banks of critics, right? Or am I wrong on this?

reply
formatting help
[–] FilmBuff (6678) 4 years ago

I'd have to look it up but I think Metascore is a selected pool of more "legit" critics, while Rotten Tomatoes is a complete amalgamation of everyone who reviewed the film. I suppose there's some overlap in there, but since the scores differ, there's clearly a fair amount of difference.

reply
formatting help
[–] Ace_Spade (9336) 4 years ago

Cool. Thanks.

reply
formatting help
[–] TexasJack (12515) 4 years ago

TFA belongs at the bottom. TLJ doesn't belong on the list at all -- it's not a Star Wars movie.

reply
formatting help
[–] ghostrider38 (1034) 4 years ago

"TLJ doesn't belong on the list at all -- it's not a Star Wars movie."

WTH?!? yes it is. TLJ is a Star Wars movie. it's part of the skywalker saga and it's canon.

reply
formatting help
[–] Threadkiller (2951) 4 years ago

Honestly neither should be on the list. TFA was a soft reboot abomination that undermined the OT & killed the potential for the ST. TLJ was merely reality confirming it for those who were in denial.

reply
formatting help
[–] furiousstyles (4359) 4 years ago

TFA was really good , and much needed after the prequels, last jedi was the bad apple here

reply
formatting help
[–] Threadkiller (2951) 4 years ago

I'm pretty sure we've been over this so let's not get into another pointless "Uh huh!/ NAh uh!" back and forth.

TFA was runny pile of dog sh*t that crippled any potential for the ST as we saw with TLJ & will see with TROS. You like TFA and that's fine. It's not like it's necessarily "wrong" to enjoy crap.

reply
formatting help
[–] Kowalski (57349) 4 years ago

DICK

reply
formatting help
[–] BurningSun (717) 4 years ago

Very bizzarre ranking. I seriously hope nobody lists 7 and 8 above 6. That’s absolutely assinine.

reply
formatting help
[–] FilmBuff (6678) 4 years ago

Critical opinion is that they are, and I think it's difficult to make a strong case otherwise without bringing personal politics into things. Strictly judging the films by merit I believe one comes up with a ranking similar to that of the film critics.

If you go by Metascore:

Star Wars 90
The Last Jedi 85
The Empire Strikes Back 82
The Force Awakens 81
Return of the Jedi 58

If you go by Rotten Tomatoes

The Empire Strikes Back 95
Star Wars / The Force Awakens tied at 93
The Last Jedi 91
Return of the Jedi 81

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

You are using an IMDB audience rating but then you use critics rating from RT. How does that make sense? Fwiw, TLJ has an audience rating of 44% on RT.

Rotten Tomatoes by Audience rating
Empire 97%
Star Wars 96%
ROTJ 94%
TFA 86%
TLJ 44%

The Critics rating system for RT is also flawed.

reply
formatting help
[–] FilmBuff (6678) 4 years ago

The Rotten Tomatoes critical rating is the gold standard-- every critic's review counted, a score based on the percentage of positive to negative reviews. The audience score is more or less meaningless, as there is no limit to the number of times a person can vote, and a voter does not need to have seen the film to vote. The score is useless. Case in point-- notice how the rankings are by and large consistent across the platforms. Some films shift up or down a spot, but if you look at Rotten Tomatoes, Metacritic, IMDB, Cinemascore, etc. you see the same pattern. The Rotten Tomatoes audience score gives a wildly different ranking, which makes sense for what it is.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

Gold standard why? Because a bunch of critics review it? The reason for the difference in certain movies is because of how the Critic´s Tomatometer is scored. A 3 out of 5 star movie which scales to a 6/10 on IMDB still gets a fresh rating. Theoretically, a 100 percent Rotten Tomatoes critic´s rating could be made up entirely of middling-to-positive reviews. A 6/10 movie would never even get close to the IMDB top 250. That´s why you see a trash movie like The Last Jedi getting a 91% Critic rating which is downright laughable. Im not saying the IMDB system is perfect either but I think its alot more accurate and less forgiving than the RT system which is inherently flawed. A film rated that highly should be considered a great film. And The Last Jedi certainly is not a great film.

reply
formatting help
[–] FilmBuff (6678) 4 years ago

I consider it the gold standard because it gives a complete breakdown of what all critics think. It isn't weighted towards more influential critics or media outlets. Metacritic offers just that, a rating that gives more weight to more credible critics. Between the two you get a solid picture of how critics viewed the film. As for your 3 stars concern-- 3 stars is widely considered a positive review, and it would make no sense to lump 3 star reviews in with negative reviews.

More to the point, your own bias shines brightly in your post. You write "a trash movie like The Last Jedi" as if your opinion is fact. You may think so, but most critics, and most audience-members, don't. The fact that you can't accept (and likely are unaware that you can't) that most people disagree with you, and believe your own opinions to be objective truths, is telling.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

It also doesn´t make sense to lump in a 3 star movie with 5 star movies. This is essentially why the RT system is problematic because it converts a critics score out of 5 or 10 and makes them binary. Fresh or Rotten. Then it gives the average of the Fresh and Rotten scores. So a movie that is really a 6/10 according to critics ends up getting a 90% score. My feelings about TLJ are not relevant. It is just one movie of many on RT that gets an over-inflated score because of a problematic scoring system.

reply
formatting help
[–] FilmBuff (6678) 4 years ago

3 stars out of 5 isn't the same as rating a film 6 out of 10, just as 6 out of 10 isn't the same as 60 out of 100. When a critic gives a film 3/5 that is considered to be a favorable review.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

Lol okay. So lumping in a 3/5 star film with a 5 star film is fine with you. You are clutching at straws dude.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

You lost credibility with me when you said imdb matters more than Rotten tomatoes.

A movie doesn't need your stamp of approval for others to consider it great.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

It depends what you mean by matters more. If you went by which is more statistically accurate as a representation of people´s opinions. I would still choose IMDB´s over RT´s. Secondly, no shit. I am only arguing why the RT critic´s meter should be taken with a grain of salt.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

Then imdb should be taken with a grain of salt also. Anytime someone disagrees with a score they have to discredit it. How about I disagree with the rating and that be the end? As opposed to acting like you as one person are the sole authority on what score a movie should get. Imdb represents what the majority of people think of a movie where as Rotten tomatoes and metacritic represent what the mass majority of critics think of a movie. Myself I put more stock in critics than people. Do I always agree nope but I find myself agreeing with critics more often than the mass majority of people.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

IMDB is imperfect also, but if you are comparing the two systems and how they grade a movie, at least IMDB uses an average of every score which is much better than converting all scores to binary scores then getting the averages of the binary scores. At least IMDB is much more representative of peoples´ original scores.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

Which is why if you have common sense you go off the average score of Rotten tomatoes rather than the tomato meter.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

Yes I agree, if you have common sense you go off average score. Hear that OP?

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

Where have I said I am the "sole" authority? All I am arguing is why it makes no sense to call the RT critic´s meter, the gold standard for a film´s rating.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

I go by average score not tomato meter.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

That´s good for you, but I have been essentially replying to the OP this whole thread, who called the RT critic´s meter the gold standard.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

Here is the thing though even if you take into account average score last Jedi and force awakens still score really high.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

TLJ scores an 8.09 and TFA scores an 8.26 scores considerably less than the tomatometer scores although granted still high.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

So critically it is not one of the worst films ever like some of these fans like to claim. Actually critically it's considered a very good film.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

I don´t think the fans are claiming that its critically bad. I think the fans are just claiming its bad, and the audience scores are reflective of that at least with TLJ.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

Let's be real though. Fans aren't going to accept anything without complaint after Empire strikes back.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

Not necessarily. TFA got a pretty good rating from fans as did ROTJ.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

They still complained. Literally people are like it's terrible worse than the prequels blah blah blah. What i hate is if you like any of these new star wars films you are considered a paid sjw shill by Disney. I don't call anyone who dislikes them a sexist person but respect doesn't go both ways.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

You are talking about a minority of extreme fans. You could literally say that about any film that has ever existed. There are people out there who think all Star Wars films are trash. I´m talking about the general audience score. The consensus amongst audiences was that ROTJ and TFA scored very well.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

I personally like last Jedi better than any of the prequels.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

Its fine if you agree with the critics but that´s not the argument here. The argument is how the scoring system for the critics on RT is flawed. The final critic´s rating on the tomatometer isn´t representative of the actual critics´ ratings. This is just as an example but something that is possible on RT, if 80% of critics gave a movie a 6/10 and it´s final score on the tomatometer is 91%, I´d say that is a fair misrepresentation of how the critics scored the film.

reply
formatting help
[–] moviefanatic505 (6000) 4 years ago

Well yeah going off just the tomato meter without factoring in average score is silly. Let's take this as example. If we go off tomato meter then these movies are better than these.

Spy kids>>>Terminator 2
Indiana Jones kingdom of the Crystal Skull>>>The Prestige

If you flip it and go by average score it is reversed.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

The RT audience score is only widely different for legitimate bad movies. If you look at the original trilogy the audience scores rate similarly to the critics´ scores with the minor exception of ROTJ which rates as a 94% to the Critic´s 81%.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

TFA and TLJ over ROTJ. lol.

reply
formatting help
[–] kuku (3510) 4 years ago

while I personally felt the prequels grew worse over time the popular opinion seems to be that they got a little bit better over time

They were considered bad until the new trilogy. They seem better now... when you compare them with the new ones.

The new ones are terrible. In a few years, Force Awakens will be considered at the same level than the prequels, and Last Jedi the worst movie in the franchise.

reply
formatting help
[–] Kowalski (57349) 4 years ago

TFA AND TLJ ARE NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY.THEY ARE BOTH WAY BETTER THAN ANY OF THE PREQUEL GARBAGE THOUGH.

reply
formatting help
[–] FilmBuff (6678) 4 years ago

I think you're wrong. I strongly suspect that in, say, 50 or 60 years time, when the films are old, old movies that nearly no one alive saw new in the theater, the original Star Wars will be a classic of the pre-blockbuster-everything-has-to-explode-CGI-bloat era, and will be revered as such. Of the remaining films, The Force Awakens will be the one that stands out as the best of the rest. Right now, too many people are either incapable of letting go of a childhood fondness for the originals, or, as is your case, too bent out of shape by perceived political attacks, to judge the films objectively.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

Judging films is subjective buddy. Nobody can be wrong.

reply
formatting help
[–] FilmBuff (6678) 4 years ago

Coming from the person who talks about films being objectively this and that, it's hard to tell if you're trying to be funny here. Contrary to your comments, where you dismiss films as being "legitimate bad movies" and "trash," and speak as if your opinion is objective fact, I'm talking about looking objectively at a film with unbiased eyes, and judging it wholly on its own merit, when making one's subjective critique.

reply
formatting help
[–] BillySlater (4096) 4 years ago

Yeah its "trash" and "legitimately bad" are still comments from my perspective. It doesn´t mean I´m right or wrong and as it´s my opinion. The way you interpret my opinion is completely on you. You can feel strongly about your opinion and it doesn´t mean you or anybody else is wrong. You can´t judge films objectively, period. So pointing out someone´s nostalgia or political preference is irrelevant since everyone´s judgment is subjective. I´d also argue that many critics don´t judge films with an unbiased view either. As many have friendships with filmmakers and therefore sugar coat, some of their ratings. Case in point, Roger Ebert considered maybe the greatest critic who ever lived, gave The Phantom Menace a 3.5/4, even though its often considered one of the worst Star Wars films, if not the worst, which is not surprising considering he had interviewed George Lucas on his show before he reviewed the film.

reply
formatting help
About | Contact | Privacy | Terms | Standards | Contribute
Top Movie Discussions
Civil War Discussion | Dune: Part Two Discussion | Monkey Man Discussion | Godzilla x Kong: The New Empire Discussion | The First Omen Discussion | Abigail Discussion | Poor Things Discussion | Kung Fu Panda 4 Discussion | Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire Discussion | The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare Discussion | Wicked Little Letters Discussion | Late Night with the Devil Discussion | Love Lies Bleeding Discussion | Immaculate Discussion | Maidaan Discussion
Copyright © 2017 - 2024 MovieChat LLC

MovieChat is not affiliated with IMDb, IMDb Message Boards, or Reddit