Where Disney REALLY fucked up with the SW movies...


It’s not the SJW shit that most morons seem to think are ruining the franchise. The issue is the fact that Abrams, Kennedy, and the whole Disney crew behind SW seem to think secrets, plot twists, and mysterious marketing were the driving forces of the series. Yes, the original films DID have great plot twists, such as Luke, Leia, and Darth Vader all being related, but these twists weren’t the only things that made the films good. They’ve put too much focus and emphasis on having the audience go “ooh, I wonder who this person is!” and “what’s this thing mean?” more than developing actually interesting characters or stories. Episode 8 was entirely rewritten after fans guessed every single possible explanation for that movie, and it’s rumored that the last minute reshoots for Episode 9 also have to do with fans corectly guessing the plot twists. Who cares? Is it worth butchering a great reveal that fits with the story just so you can go “gotcha, betcha didn’t think of that!” But the twist sucks. Do they not understand that trying to hype up secrets and mysteries will only stir up fans into brainstorming every possible scenario? I honestly think this trilogy would’ve benefited from writers and producers just trying to make a decent film instead of trying to be like M Night Shamalan and focusing on the plot twists and secret reveals firsts.

More specifically, I think they’re trying way to hard to falsely hype the films by focusing on the wrong things. “Ooh, we put The Emperor in the new movie! That’ll make everyone wanna see it because it’s just like the original films!” No, it’s just stupid. I mean, wow, cool beans, the Emperor is in. I guess that automatically makes the story amazing? Why not explain who Snoke is? Why not have introduced The Emperor sooner?

reply

The Star Wars problem is very easy to understand. There are two options. Original story or rehashing an old story.

Not counting New Hope, the only original Star Wars movie that worked well was Empire. ROTJ was a retread of New Hope. ROTJ proved you could just rehash the original and have people like your movie.

Abrams set out to create another ROTJ with Force Awakens, and to his credit he kinda succeeded (opinions vary because ROTJ is so near and dear to our childhoods). Johnson set out to make another Empire and fell flat on his face because he failed to make an interesting story. A similar thing happened with Lucas' prequels.

Originality is tough. Nostalgia is easy. Its easy because you're rehashing a story that has known to work in the past.

Another problem is time constraints. Disney wants these movies pumped out too quickly. The original screenwriter for Force Awakens was kicked out because he needed 18 months. Abrams did it in two weeks. Most liked it. Then Rian Johnson shows up and says he has a wonderful direction to take Star Wars thats original. Bzzzt! Fans hated it. He's out, and now Disney has to start all over with no time. So here comes Abrams again to use the shortcut of nostalgia but this time its Palpatine.

Even if given the time, original stories just aren't guaranteed to work in the Star Wars universe. Lucas was sitting on his prequel ideas for decades. Only New Hope and Empire have succeeded. Its easy to say Disney should've figured this stuff out before even filming. But the reality is its been 40 years and nobody has figured out how to make it both original and entertaining. :/

reply

Not to mention that ALL but TWO of the NINE main Star Wars movies has a Death Star in it:
ANH - The original Death Star
ESB - None
ROTJ - Death Star II
TPM - None
AOTC - Death Star shown in plans in a Geonosis scene
ROTS - Death Star being constructed when the Empire begins
TFA - Starkiller Base (a bigger, better and far more implausible Death Star)
TLJ - A huge ground cannon built on Death Star tech
TROS - Star Destroyers each equipped with Death Star tech

It just NEVER ENDS, the recycling of ideas.

reply

HELICOPTERS ,JETS AND TANKS...EVERY BATTLE AND OR WAR MOVIE FEATURES THESE DEVICES...DEATH STAR BEING SO GRAND AND IMPRESSIVE IN SCOPE AND SCALE,MAKES SENSE IT WOULDNT BE A ONE OFF,OR USE TIL IT BREAKS THEN WE WILL GET A NEW RIDE ITEM.

reply

It's a miracle that both the Empire and First Order lasted as long as they did, ploughing their vast resources and wealth into single massive objects that are so easily destroyed by a few weapon blasts each. You would think, after a short while, that these "Death Star Projects" would be considered ECONOMIC AND FINANCIAL BLACK HOLES!

reply

Its difficult to know how much resources the First Order has access to. But I agree whatever the cost of these projects, it has not been worth it. Thats because the movies are always written to destroy the big bad guns of the Empire. Its just not a compelling story any more. Having massive weapons in Star Wars still works as a plot device, but its time to find new ways to deal with the problem that doesn't involve blowing them up. The one thing Rian Johnson could've done correctly by subverting our expectations and not blowing up the big weapon, but then he blows it up. lol.

reply

what else you gonna do? turn it into a giant bong?

reply

Destroying a big gun over and over again is less likely than creating one of your own which ends up in the mutually assured destruction scenario where neither side uses their weapon.

reply

Good idea. Although seeing as the bad guys are constantly churning these things out , you could save a bit of cash by commandeering one of theirs

reply

That is definitely another option. And then to have the rebels who take control of it show signs of abusing that power. So much more can happen than simply just blowing things up.

reply

I don't think AOTC and ROTS really count. In both films, the Death Star has absolutely nothing to do with the plot, but it is just thrown in there for an extremely quick fan service and reference to the OT. If you took both of those scenes out, the films would be exactly the same. The prequel trilogy did not revolve around the Death Star like the OT and new trilogy do.

But I agree with your point that the new trilogy is basically just recycling the OT ideas.

reply

As much as an atrocious clusterf*ck that the Di$ney sequel trilogy may be, the people who overemphasize the "SJW" crap in their criticisms make me cringe. There is so much more wrong with than that where you're really undermining your own argument by overemphasizing it when the main issues are poorly plagiarizing & undermining the OT, poor storytelling, poor characterizations, zero world building & no creative vision.

reply

It doesnt help though ...

reply

The OP's comment is the best one I've read so far about what's wrong with the sequel trilogy.

reply

Even worse, there was a whole treasure trove of stories from the Expanded Universe that they could have harvested for these sequels, stuff that was far more canon than the crap they shelled out. But nope. They just threw out the books and did whatever the hell they wanted, just like many arrogant jerks in Hollywood who think they know better.

reply

I kind of disagree in that I do think that the prevailing SJW mindset of today has contributed in some respect to the mess the storyline now is. However the "blame", if you want to call it that, is Lucas', entrenched in the mythos of the OT and the rub of that against what followed.

Star Wars was a very simple tale of a boy who although he didn't know it was very SPECIAL. He was the last hope (yes revised), the last remaining Jedi after they'd been wiped out. We learn that Obi-Wan was camped out watching over this special kid of years waiting for him to become old enough (yes revised) to fulfill his potential. He did it, destroyed the evil Emperor, and saved the galaxy! Hooray, end of story...

However, what followed with the prequels was that anyone could be a Jedi, the midi-chlorian nonsense opened up the door to anyone suddenly appearing as a powerful Jedi. Nothing wrong with that in itself but it destroys the story at the heart of the OT, Luke is no longer the special last hope, Obi-Wan hanging about on Tatooine for years makes no sense, viewed from the PT's perspective.

And it's this that kills any attempt at a ST. Rey should only ever have existed as an offspring of Luke / Leia. That's the only way the OT's story could continue - if it really needed to at all. However today's society doesn't want that story - EVERYONE can be special. So selling a more mythical story of lineage, etc is out. Broom boy and nobody parents Rey are in. And barring a last minute retcon to correct this in episode IX (which still won't fix watching these films as a "trilogy") there's nothing left to actually make this part of any "Skywalker" series.

reply

Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter.

reply

The story/writing just isn't any good and they are breaking canon.

reply

Succinct and accurate. Two double C words. Hans-W sums it up 100%.

OP has some points but even with that limp approach, I could like it if done well ... which it wasn't. I don't care about people's political complaints. I just want well made movies.

reply