MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion > Bringing Back the Emperor is an awful id...

Bringing Back the Emperor is an awful idea

posted 5 years ago by arflexit (2376)
53 replies | jump to latest

It just proves that Disney, Kennedy and Abrams do not understand Star Wars. I forget which actor or crew memeber said something like "they'll defeat the emperor properly this time" (Probably Daisey Ridely, she is prone to saying dumb things). Could they say anything more insulting to the Original Trilogy or undermine the sacrifice of Vader saving his son, or the emperor's hubris leading to his demise. Oh no, that useless Luke and Vader just couldn't get the job done right. Almighty Rey comes in to save the day again.

From what I hear of the plot leaks she has to sacrifice herself at the end to save Kylo (now Ben again, stop the Emperor and free the Galaxy. Yeah if that is true she is even more of a Mary Sue then the original satire. I swear to god they better not end it with her sacrificing herself to stop the emperor, thus stealing Vader's thunder like she did Han and Luke's already.

I know they have done the emperor's return in some of the EU stuff, but I always thought it was stupid to do so, bringing back the emperor at any point completely undermines the end of Vader and the Return of the Jedi.

Disney doing it now is obviously a ploy to capture nostalgia again because they are desperate to get back the love and money they got for TFA and are panicking over the response to Last Jedi and Solo. So they are doing the "'member when Star Wars..." gimmick.

Such a waste of a trilogy. I am glad I have yet to pay for a single one of the disney era films

[–] TandyMan (10328) 5 years ago

Well the whole message of these films to the young generation is that the boomers screwed the world up, are themselves failures and it's up to the new kids to fix everything and do it right this time.

I do believe them when they say this is always what they had in mind from the beginning.

[–] B1cKsurN (14673) 5 years ago

Nail: Head.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Funny though, is it not boomers themselves that are making these films? It is either a lack of self reflection on their part or an attempt at sycophancy to the younger college age crowd. There seems to be no small number of people that like to be cuddled and patted on the back for accomplishing nothing.

[–] FilmBuff (6663) 5 years ago

Don't worry, you can watch the originals over and over again. No one is forcing you to accept anything challenging or new. You're the cinematic version of a person who eats nothing but well done hamburgers, french fries, and ketchup his entire life, and denounces anything unusual or new that scares him. Wal-Mart was invented for people just like you, and business is booming, so you have nothing to worry about.

[–] furiousstyles (4359) 5 years ago

Haha well put , and so very true

[–] sokar (2098) 5 years ago

Not even close to true but you keep insuting people and then complain when you get insulted.

Part of your statement is true though. Everyone will watch the original trilogy over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and again.

While this trilogy gets forgotten about in the bargain basement of every bargain store.

In 40 years the original trilogy will be still be watched and discussed, Disney Star Wars will not.

[–] B1cKsurN (14673) 5 years ago

It's not new. It's nostalgia and wokeness for sale. It's pathetic, and should be ridiculed.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I do see what you are saying. But it is still frustrating that this new trilogy is actively trying to undermine everything that made the originals so well loved. And this is what they are trying to do. Not a big deal to me, as I just mostly ignore it; but it still is in the back of my mind when watching the originals. Can't help but shack the idea of heroic Luke milking a sea cow. They did manage to poison the originals a little bit.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Come to think of it part of your comment is the exact opposite of what is actually true:

"You're the cinematic version of a person who eats nothing but well done hamburgers, french fries, and ketchup his entire life, and denounces anything unusual or new that scares him. Wal-Mart was invented for people just like you, and business is booming, so you have nothing to worry about."

Star Wars sequel trilogy is not new, it is an established IP, like Wal-mart. In this case you are the wal-mart shopper going for the comfortable and familiar, and easy to access franchise. I am the one not interested in shopping there anymore. So in that case you are remarkably unaware of the hypocrisy of your statement. BTW, I actually am quite found of Shopping at walmart, Parent's Choice brand is actually quite good for a great price. No complaints from me.

[–] Threadkiller (2947) 5 years ago

Whatever else may happen, never in a million years will they have Rey sacrifice herself in a way that isn't a fake out that results in her permanent death or falling to the dark side. Kennedy would never allow it

[–] TandyMan (10328) 5 years ago

There's way too much money to be made with Rey in Disney's new EU to kill her off. Definitely never gonna happen. Hundreds of books, cartoons, comics, and video games are on the way in the future, all featuring our new Star Wars super heroine.

They already wrote themselves into a corner hard with the delightful Ahsoka. They're not making that mistake again.

[–] B1cKsurN (14673) 5 years ago

Didn't Rey's Kenner figure contribute to Toy's R' Us going out of business?

Or was that Rose Tico?

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I do not know, making her a martyr might add to her 'legendary' status. Especially since they are closing the book on this part of the saga.

[–] Galactus03 (4287) 5 years ago

Put some spoiler tags in there dumbass ..

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

The movies have not been released yet so this is speculation and the emperor is on the movie's poster for christ sake, this is no spoiler, dumbass.

[–] Galactus03 (4287) 5 years ago

You read the plot leaks. It's potential and very likely spoilers...dumbass...

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

The emperor is on the Poster, that is not a plot leak; speculating about rumors does not qualify as spoilers; these 'plot leaks' are like any others; unverified rumors. That does not qualify as spoilers... dumbass.

[–] AP (5256) 5 years ago

Also, the first teaser had Palpatine’s voice. Also, everyone involved in this movie has mentioned Palpatine is back, including the guy who plays Palpatine. Galactus03 is being an idiot.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

To be fair to Galactus03, I am assuming that they are referring to the other 'plot leaks' I was discussing, such as Rey sacrificing herself, and not about the return of the Emperor (which at this point has been thoroughly spoiled by the film creators). Even so though, discussing unverified plot leaks does not qualify as spoilers. It is speculating on rumors. So in that (combined with calling me a dumbass) yes, they were being an idiot.

[–] AP (5256) 5 years ago

Yeah, I have heard Kylo sacrifices himself. It’s all rumor and speculation at this point.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1320) 5 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Volley (3366) 5 years ago

At this point the Classic Trilogy should be its own canon, everything else just Legends.

The expanded universe of the 90's and 00's is so much better than anything Disney has put out so far. At least the Palpatine of Dark Empire I and II was consistent with his Return of the Jedi counterpart.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Yes I agree. I hope they soon come out with Bluray quality video on the unaltered trilogy.

"At least the Palpatine of Dark Empire I and II was consistent with his Return of the Jedi counterpart."

Well to be fair we do not know what the Disney era Emperor will be like, so we don't know if they will maintain consistency. Either way though, i never liked the idea of bringing the Emperor back in any way. It just does not sit well with the perfect conclusion of the arch of Luke, Vader, The Empire and the Emperor himself. Even with the silliness of Return of the Jedi's less than ideal choices (Ewoks), the scene in the Emperor's Throne room, the battle between Father and Son and the ultimate conclusion of the love for his son outweighing the darkness in his heart leading Vader to sacrifice himself is basically cinematic perfection. I get goosebumps during that part.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Disney? Release the OOT on Blu-ray? Fat chance.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I know, it will probably never happen. :(

[–] SoCrates (868) 5 years ago

I know the internet had the idea first, and Disney is out to subvert expectations and all, but Darth Plagueis would've been a better idea, IMO.

A Sith Lord obsessed with eternal life, and somehow surviving Emperor Palpatine's betrayal sounds like a way more interesting threat.

There's a lot of ideas that Disney could've used that would've been way more interesting than what we have now.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

You are not wrong that would be more interesting and at least an aim at something original (but not really) while maintaining some connection to the Lucas era Star Wars. 2 problems though, Plagueis is referenced in the Prequels which are not nearly as popular and 2 the Emperor is the Iconic villain of the Original trilogy they are try to use to exploit nostalgia. You would get no such nostalgic affect with Plagues. It is a cheap gimmick to exploit the emotions of the audience to make more money. The real tragic part is that is works so well. The general audience just eat it up.

[–] TandyMan (10328) 5 years ago

A character like Plagueis is great cause you sort of get to have your cake and eat it too. It was his plan to carry out the fall of the Republic and the Jedi, which Palpatine ultimate succeeded in executing. By bringing back the grand daddy schemer, you get to keep the Emperor's machinations and the Skywalker saga intact, all that stuff still matters. But you also get to deal with the final showdown between the Jedi and the Sith that began way back with Bane. Since they're apparently developing a Bane series now anyhow. So you're still dealing with all the fallout of the OT, from the roots of PT, while doing tons of new stuff setting up future stories and laying the groundwork for things like a Bane series or a Plagueis prequel. Just like the EU did the first time around, it cracks the Star Wars universe wide open. At the very least, Plagueis in these new movies would introduce lots of juicy backstory about the Emperor previously unknown, which is the RIGHT way to do nostalgia. They could have made good movies. All the books were written. We don't have a Game of Thrones situation here. They just didn't want to.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I think you take on Plagueis is interesting, and if they executed it well it could really be something great that still ties in nicely with the Emperor. That just makes even more tragic that the new trilogy is just going end with the Emperor again.

[–] SoCrates (868) 5 years ago

I definitely would've loved to see what you are talking about here.

It's too bad Disney/Lucasfilm didn't want to explore ideas like that.

[–] Saenzwa9 (437) 5 years ago

His face is plastered on the new poster overshadowing Rey and Kylo. It's obvious Disney is pinning all their hopes on his return. I view Palpatine's return as an act of desperation. They probably contemplated bringing back Snoke, but ultimately decided to bank in on nostalgia and plaster Palp's face on the poster to get fans who wrote off Star Wars entirely to come back. I highly doubt Snoke will be back but I suspect we will found more about who he was, and his connection to Sidious.

If everything is done right Vader's sacrifice would not be in vain if Luke is the one to bring down Sidious. If Sidious can come back after being thrown down a reactor shaft then Luke can certainly come back to. With this film they have a huge chance to redeem Luke Skywalker, but I highly doubt that will happen. He's probably going to show up for a couple minutes as a force ghost, and Rey will be the one to ultimately defeat Palpatine since she's a very special girl.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

You are right, the fact that they 'prematurely ejaculated' the twist of bringing back the emperor and plastered his face everywhere just reeks of desperation. They panicked after the Last Jedi and brought back safe rehash artist Abrams to salvage the trilogy in the safest way possible.

I do not agree that Luke destroying the Emperor again if he returned wouldn't still undermine Vader's redemption. Ultimately that was Vader's moment, Luke's moment was refusing the darkside. Luke's rejection of anger and hate combined with Vader's love for his son is what lead to Vader destroying the Emperor. It is important that it is Vader, not Luke, that actually does the act of killing the Emperor.

[–] Saenzwa9 (437) 5 years ago

Better to have Luke kill him than Rey. At least you can say Vader contributed indirectly since he saved Luke's life. Bottom line is the Emperor is back so Vader only stopped him temporarily. Believe me I'm just as unhappy about it as you are.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Oh yes absolutely, if you are going to bring the emperor back it has to be Luke leading the main effort. Rey taking over to "finish it right" is just yet another example of her spotlight stealing. Anyone that says she is not a Mary Sue at this point has got their heads so buried in the sand their feet are dangling in the air.

"Bottom line is the Emperor is back so Vader only stopped him temporarily. Believe me I'm just as unhappy about it as you are."

Sigh, yup. It is just frustrating and annoying the direction they went in with this. Those that say "you can just enjoy the originals if you don't like these ones" don't seem to understand the sequel trilogy is directly related to the originals, with all the original characters, it is impossible to unknow what is known about the sequels. You can never watch the originals without the idea of where the characters end up gnawing at your mind. You can't unsee Luke milking a giant sea cow.