Rotten Tomatoes provides a perfect view of what critics think, as it gives a percentage score based on all reviews of a film. There's no way to cheat that system, so you know precisely how critics felt about a film.
The numbers you list, on the other hand, are useless, because they aren't representative of the general public's opinion of the films. They represent the opinion of people who may or may not have seen a film, and are skewed towards people who choose to vote multiple times. If 1,000 people see a film, and half of them go online and give it a score of 5 stars, but one person who didn't see it but dislikes the movie for whatever reason creates a bot to rate it 1 star 100,000 times, the film will have a 1 star average. Is that accurate? That's online ratings.
The only way to get a sense of the public perception, outside of talking to people, is to look at the box office. Since we're talking about American audiences, I'm using domestic box office returns.
At the time it was released, The Last Jedi was the 6th highest grossing film of all time. The Force Awakens remains the highest grossing film of all time. It's hard to fathom how anyone can interpret that as lack of interest. You might make the case that The Last Jedi earning less indicates audiences staying away, but that is typical for trilogies. The Empire Strikes Back, widely considered the best of all 8 Star Wars films, earned $290 million compared to Star Wars' $461 million, or only 63% of the original's return. The Last Jedi, meanwhile earned 66% of what The Force Awakens earned. That's rather remarkable, considering just how well The Force Awakens performed. Had The Last Jedi earned only 50% as much it would have been understandable given how high the bar was set, but it actually OUTPERFORMED Empire.
What will part 9 do? We don't know. If I'm wrong, and audiences truly are tired of Star Wars, it should do poorly. $628 million would put it on par with Return of the Jedi, though again, The Force Awakens made so much that $628 million should represent greater than expected success. If instead we assume it should make as much in relation to The Last Jedi as Return of the Jedi made in relation to Empire, then the high end is $661 million.
I suppose that’s the bottom line, for me, anyway. I see The Force Awakens breaking records, then I see The Last Jedi outperforming expectations. In my day-to-day life I hear only positive remarks about those two films, and hear eager anticipation for the finale. We’ll know more once the film is out. If it makes around $500 million at the box office, I don’t think anyone can say there was a lack of interest. If it makes $628 million, I think we all have to admit audiences were more eager to see it than even Jedi. And, if it makes $661 million or more, even the most ardent haters of Star Wars will have to admit that audiences were dying to see the film, and Abrams delivered beyond even their wildest expectations.
tl'dr summary:
If Part 9 makes something in the neighborhood of $500 million domestically, that will indicate that audiences were into it.
If it makes less than $450 million, then something has gone wrong.
If it tops $600 million it will have soared far beyond its the wildest expectations, and literally no one can do anything other than tip their hat to Abrams for reviving the moribund franchise that was Star Wars in 2012.
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mooville (32)
5 years ago
Just being a fly on the wall (don't much care for the topic, just wasting time), but just to point out you didn't really put into consideration the inflation of the one dollar bill. Things back in 1977 weren't as expensive as they are today, specifically the cost of a movie ticket, or am I wrong? I'm too lazy to really look, but if I'm right then the argument about how much money was made at the box office then and what is being made now doesn't really mean much in this context. In fact it may even go against the argument you're making that interest isn't being lost.
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FilmBuff (6687)
5 years ago
I compared the way I did precisely because of the value of the dollar. What I'm comparing is percentages, which take into account the inflation of which you speak.
Star Wars made x dollars. The Empire Strikes Back made 63% of x.
The Force Awakens made y dollars. The Last Jedi made 66% of y.
If I were to say y > x as if to prove fans like The Force Awakens more than Star Wars, I'd be doing what you said-- ignoring inflation. Instead, it doesn't really matter how x and y relate. What matters is that fan interest in Star Wars was such that its sequel made 63% of what it made. Fan interest was clearly on par, and perhaps a bit higher, after The Force Awakens, as its sequel made 66% of what it made.
I point out that The Last Jedi was the 6th highest earning film of all time upon release not to demonstrate that it made more than older Star Wars films, but to point out that it achieved massive financial success in its own right.
I don't think any films will ever equal the success or influence of the original Star Wars films. They came out in a time before streaming, video rental, cable TV, or any watch-at-home capabilities existed for nearly anyone. They were among the original blockbusters, and caught the tail end of the era when the cinema was king. Even Avengers:Endgame's success didn't approach that of Star Wars because back then it was customary to see the same film more than once. Many kids, myself included, went 5 or 6 times, because you knew once it left theaters you may never see it again, and if you did it would be years later on TV, with commercials. So yes, a dollar-to-dollar comparison is fruitless.
The only real way to look at this, I believe, is by comparing its success to other films of its era, and to compare box office as a percentage to the other films in its own trilogy.
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TaRaNRoD (1579)
5 years ago
Like another poster pointed out, debating with you is useless because you REALLY want to have the last word...
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FilmBuff (6687)
5 years ago
Where does having the last word come into it? That sounds like something you're saying rather than try to continue the discussion. It's also telling that you think of this as a debate rather than a discussion.
I remain a part of a thread when it remains friendly, and when there is an interesting discussion of a topic happening. Having the "last word" isn't something that enters into my decision to post. If you have something interesting to contribute, or if you think something I've written is incorrect, please respond, but what's the point of lobbing an inaccurate insult at someone other than to spark some kind of drama?
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TaRaNRoD (1579)
5 years ago
Why are always writing fucking essays??? I would have read your comment, but with that, I don't even bother anymore.
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