"Remember though in each he loses a artifact that he had obtained. The Idol, The Remains, and the grail."
The Grail was lost during the earthquake. It's not like it was stolen.
"Um they do rip each other off. Remember when people moaned and groaned about another death star in Return of the Jedi?"
The second Death Star in ROTJ is the only similarity to ANH, though. The movies have different plots, different beats, different arcs, different set pieces etc.
"There are fights in all action movies but the manor in which it is done is the same. Indy fights supporting bad guy gets beat down then music kicks in and punches the guy real hard."
Yeah, the underdog hero winning a fight against a big strong guy. That is very, very common. We see that in a few James Bond movies, a couple of Diehards. A scene like this happens in 300. Also, Troy. The list goes on.
"So simply by changing the vehicle that makes it different?"
Yes, if you change something, it becomes different. That's how changing things works.
"Interesting then how come a storm trooper going rogue never gets brought up in TFA?"
It is the one thing TFA does differently, that's true.
"How about the villain being defeated?"
You mean like how the evil guy in a black helmet and cloak is removed from the battle due to the actions of the hotshot pilot just before the Death Star is destroyed? The same sequence also involving the orphan from a desert planet who has an important lineage finally unlocking Force powers to save the day? Hm, am I talking about TFA or ANH? Spoiler alert: I'm talking about both movies.
"How about the ending where the hero finds the mentor?"
Actually, Han Solo plays the Obi-Wan in TFA. He tells the orphan from the desert planet about the Force while on the Millennium Falcon while transporting stolen information on a R2 unit. Later said mentor takes the heroes to the Death Star and sacrifices himself to the evil guy in the helmet and cloak to buy the heroes some time. Oh, and the mentor/bad guy have a father/son relationship.
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moviefanatic505 (6000)
5 years ago
Still though people moaned and groaned about the death star in return of the Jedi.
See this is what I don't get. You say oh the hero beating up the big strong guy is common, therefore basically implying it excuses it. Yes but we are talking about recycling. We are also talking about beats in the same series. You know how many people call last crusade a ripoff of raiders? I care about if the movie is done well not if it's cliche. Do You know how many original films truly exist? Because tfa is cliche and trash so is a new hope since it's basically hidden fortress.
Okay then don't get mad when people list minor changes in tfa. Stay consistent. Changing a vehicle is like changing the topping of a cake and claiming it's a different cake. Different topping but the base is the same. So then in that case Jaku is different than Tatooine because the name is different. Therefore they changed it.
I wasn't aware luke had a lightsaber duel with Vader in a new hope.
So luke saw Yoda at the end of a new hope? The same way Rey saw luke at the end of tfa.
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AP (5256)
5 years ago
"Still though people moaned and groaned about the death star in return of the Jedi."
Okay.
"See this is what I don't get. You say oh the hero beating up the big strong guy is common, therefore basically implying it excuses it. Yes but we are talking about recycling. We are also talking about beats in the same series. You know how many people call last crusade a ripoff of raiders? I care about if the movie is done well not if it's cliche. Do You know how many original films truly exist? Because tfa is cliche and trash so is a new hope since it's basically hidden fortress."
Your argument is getting inconsistent. Are we talking about movies ripping each other off or cliches?
"Okay then don't get mad when people list minor changes in tfa. Stay consistent. Changing a vehicle is like changing the topping of a cake and claiming it's a different cake. Different topping but the base is the same. So then in that case Jaku is different than Tatooine because the name is different. Therefore they changed it."
My response was more about the silliness of your question. Changing something does make something different than what it was previously. That's pretty much the definition of the word.
"I wasn't aware luke had a lightsaber duel with Vader in a new hope."
Didn't say he did.
"So luke saw Yoda at the end of a new hope? The same way Rey saw luke at the end of tfa."
The final 5 seconds of TFA is different than the final 5 seconds of ANH. Bravo.
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moviefanatic505 (6000)
5 years ago
Movies ripping each other off. Whenever I bring up that Star Wars a New Hope ripped off the Hidden Fortress it gets thrown away because people have not seen it or well it is a different film series. Thus implying it only applies when people want it to.
Okay you may have me here. So that means that Jaku is different from Tatooine then right?
I never said you said Luke had a duel with the main villain, I was pointing out a difference since you say it is identical to a New Hope. See people do not want to acknowledge any differences.
A storm trooper turning rogue, the main hero interacting with the villain and being captured, the lightsaber duel happening between the hero and the villain, the hero defeating the villain, No princess here, the villain killing a member of his own family all not in a new hope.
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AP (5256)
5 years ago
"Movies ripping each other off. Whenever I bring up that Star Wars a New Hope ripped off the Hidden Fortress it gets thrown away because people have not seen it or well it is a different film series. Thus implying it only applies when people want it to."
ANH didn't rip-off Hidden Fortress. George Lucas has been upfront about all of his inspirations for Star Wars which includes Westerns, WWII docs, and Flash Gordon. Yes, that includes Hidden Fortress and other samurai flicks as well. I've seen Hidden Fortress, btw. There is a general similarity but they are still entirely different movies. For starters, they belong to entirely different genres.
"So that means that Jaku is different from Tatooine then right?"
For your analogy to make sense, Indy would have to be in different tanks or carts for his chase scenes as opposed to entirely different vehicles. Jakku and Tatooine are identical places to the point where I'm surprised JJ Abrams even bothered to come up with a different name for Jakku. It'd be one thing if they were both desert planets but there was some defining trait to separate Jakku from Tatooine, but there isn't.
"I never said you said Luke had a duel with the main villain, I was pointing out a difference since you say it is identical to a New Hope. See people do not want to acknowledge any differences."
I have acknowledged plenty of differences. They're mostly minor.
"A storm trooper turning rogue, the main hero interacting with the villain and being captured, the lightsaber duel happening between the hero and the villain, the hero defeating the villain, No princess here, the villain killing a member of his own family all not in a new hope."
By contrast, I could write a five page essay involving everything that is similar.
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moviefanatic505 (6000)
5 years ago
It did ripoff hidden fortress. Also putting it in a different genre doesn't change themes.
Notice I said vehicle chase in the third act of each.
A storm trooper going rogue is not minor as he is pivotal to the plot.
Remember a simple change makes it different. Since its name is different not the same.
Doesn't matter if you can. I pointed out differences therefore it stops the point of It being called a complete copy. Are things copied yep but as I said terminator 2 recycled as did the Indy films.
Honestly I love that people hate these new films it makes me like them even more. Anything after Empire gets constant flak. It makes me chuckle when people claimed it destroyed their childhood. The OT is overrated in my book. Influential yep but lord of the rings owns that trilogy.
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AP (5256)
5 years ago
You do not understand the difference between a rip-off and an influence. I'm even beginning to wonder if you've actually seen Hidden Fortress.
Yes, Finn going rogue is minor since it wa smsotly forgotten about after the first ten minutes or so of the movie.
And no, changing a name does not make a huge amount of difference.
As for Terminator 2, I already proved it was different from the first. The same goes with the Indy flicks. If you love the sequels, go ahead but you should probably try to develop better arguments as to why they don't suck.
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moviefanatic505 (6000)
5 years ago
I've seen that flick. I watch older films all the time. The opening is so similar.
Um Finn was in the entire film not the only the first 10 minutes. Nice try. He was pivotal to the plot from start to finish. No he wasn't the main Jedi but he is still a pivotal character.
Then changing a vehicle doesn't make a huge amount of difference.
No you didn't. You just said it was not and I proved the Indy flicks are the same film made over and over. You just like them therefore it doesn't apply. Terminator 2 is almost identical to the first. Want me to come up with a list like I did for Indy for Terminator 2?
I don't have to come up any argument as to why the sequels are good. That's what I find funny about you Star Wars fans. You think people owe you an explanation. I just am willing to doesn't mean I have to.
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