MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion > The Prequels didn't offend me, the Seque...

The Prequels didn't offend me, the Sequels did

posted 5 years ago by [deleted]
34 replies | jump to latest

I was born in 1972.

I've more or less grown up with Star Wars, but I never was that obsessed with it, unlike most others - after all, I saw ANH on TV at Christmas, then ROTJ in the cinema, and finally ESB on home video... in that order.

I saw the Prequels and was excited, and I really was not disappointed, even thinking of Jar Jar Binks as tolerable. I liked all three of them, and I knew they were different, but they were still Star Wars to me, a different time (both movies and setting) and it was, after all, a backstory. The CGI was even great for the time they were made.

Then, to me, the whole Saga was complete: Episodes 1-6, great tale of Anakin and then Luke Skywalker. Nothing more needed to be done. Even Lucas was satisfied with the way they turned out, and Star Wars was done.

I hated the Prequel hate, and always defended ALL of the movies. I thought fans were ungrateful.

Then Lucas sells his company to Disney, and I have a big, BAAAD feeling about the whole thing. After all, a grand space opera being sold to a kiddie company and having Darth Vader mixing with the likes of Mickey Mouse and Buzz Lightyear was never going to be good. Not to mention they were going to make a trilogy of UNNEEDED movies.

Then TFA came out, and I was right. I was offended by the crappy characters and lame rehash storytelling, not to mention the character assassination of Han AND Luke. I was baffled as to why people said that "Star Wars was back on track" - UM, it was NEVER off-track!

Then TLJ came out, and almost everyone except a few woke retards hated it, which made me think they at last saw sense.

And now we're a few months away from the crowning jewel in the piss pot, the cream of the cesspool, the top of the turd, and the complete deconstruction of the whole SAGA so painstakingly set up by George Lucas himself.

Whoever hasn't walked out when the dust settles: I hope you're happy.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

[deleted]

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

You mean you WOULDN'T give zero shits. Use the right grammar, for crying out loud!

[–] FilmBuff (6663) 5 years ago

It's hard for me to understand or relate to what you wrote. I was born in 1970, and enjoyed the original 3 films when I was kid. As you know, they were a huge deal to all children of the late '70s and early '80s. I didn't share the obsession with them that many fans took into adulthood, but I can enjoy them for what they are when I've watched them as an adult.

When the prequels came out, I was excited. Star Wars was such a big part of my childhood that I was eager to see what sort of story Lucas had for us. I was massively disappointed, as the three prequels were complete trash from a filmmaking standpoint. There was no momentum to the plots, the characters were bland cutouts, who behaved erratically to suit wherever Lucas wanted the story to go, and the films ended up as bloated, nonsensical messes. Each was worse than the last, culminating in the laughably bad Revenge of the Sith. Say what you will about the originals, but even though they are somewhat simple and geared at kids first, they at least told a fun story in a concise and coherent manner, and the character's motivations were clear.

The Force Awakens was a return to what made the franchise great. It tells a compelling story, it's well-paced and re-watchable, and gives us interesting characters who we can be excited to watch grow and develop onscreen. It's as good as any of the original films, and the only reason I wouldn't rank it as the best of the bunch is based on primacy. The originals came first, and are a part of my childhood, so they have a special place in my heart, but in terms of filmmaking, plot, acting, and all the things that make great films great, The Force Awakens is the best of the first seven.

The Last Jedi was a step backwards. You could tell that someone else had taken over, and the film was something of a mess in parts. It's still far better than any of the three prequels, but a large reason for that is the groundwork laid by part 7. Whereas the prequels were utter shit from the get-go, and shit piled atop shit is even shittier, The Last Jedi was more of a step back from The Force Awakens, but all the things that made TFA great were still there, just not being well-managed.

All signs point towards part 9 being a great finale that will make up for the shortcomings of part 8.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

What makes you think I didn't LOVE the OT, FilmBuff? I never said I disliked them, I just said I saw them in the wrong order, so maybe that's why the big Vader reveal had no effect on me, as I remember it.

[–] FilmBuff (6663) 5 years ago

I wasn't implying that you didn't love the originals. I took from your post that you enjoyed them, and was focused more on your feelings about the prequels/sequels. That's where our tastes don't line up.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

The Force Awakens was a manufactured, by-the-numbers, Star Wars Greatest Hits, committee-driven REHASH of what came before, AND it assassinated Han Solo by having him returning to being a smuggler and divorcing from Leia (WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!?!)

"The originals came first, and are a part of my childhood, so they have a special place in my heart, but in terms of filmmaking, plot, acting, and all the things that make great films great, The Force Awakens is the best of the first seven."

Now I KNOW you're a TROLL. You're placing TFA OVER THE OT!?! TROLL!!!!

[–] FilmBuff (6663) 5 years ago

Okay, now we've moved past what could have been a friendly discussion into insults?

My taste in film is clearly different than yours, and we are no doubt looking for different things in the films we see. I saw The Force Awakens as a film that paid respectful homage to the original trilogy without ever pandering to the hardcore fans, while giving us some very interesting and well-developed new characters. It had numerous moments that gave me chills, and one that clearly happened when someone in a nearby seat started slicing an onion, because I definitely didn't get misty-eyed during a film... but really, I did. There were some powerful moments that the movie put in the time and effort to earn.

Star Wars is great, but if we're being honest it's a rote, color-by-numbers rehash of classic western tropes with a bit of Kurosawa thrown in. That doesn't make it bad, and I'm not insulting it, but because of how ground-breaking it was in terms of science fiction films and special effects blockbusters, we sometimes forget that at its core, it's a simple film that's been build up to be more than it is. When compared simply as films, without any of the emotional baggage of fond memories of piling into the back of someone's pickup or station wagon seemingly every weekend during the summer of 1977 to go see Star Wars again, or trading Star Wars cards, or acting out Star Wars in the playground, etc., The Force Awakens is a more complete, deeper film, with more time spent fleshing out its characters, and more powerful, epic, emotional moments. The trouble is, it's impossible for most to view the first two Star Wars films through neutral eyes, myself included, so they will always be held above whatever else comes next.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I insulted you when you suggested that TFA was a better film than ANYTHING in the Original Trilogy. That is just NOT DONE. NOTHING beats the OT in terms of Star Wars. NO. THING.

I mean, are you suggesting that JarJar Abrams is a better director than Irvin Kershner? That's HERESY! For example, JarJar Abrams is instrumental in the immediate decay of the Star Trek franchise by soiling that 2009 movie with lens flares, for crying out loud! Not to mention turning it into a dumbed-down action franchise!

And then, for TFA, he does the same thing with the lens flares (in a few places) and adds endless Mystery Boxes, another damned favourite of his, and the new characters were annoying to me as well.

What were these "powerful moments" you describe? I never saw anything of the sort. All I remember was getting more annoyed by the film as time went on. It just didn't sit right with me, it had none of the charm of the OT and felt manufactured.

OK, so that's how you feel about TFA. What about TLJ? Do you love that as well? Or has it derailed the plotline established by TFA? Think carefully now, the general consensus is that the Star Wars fanbase is divided by Roundhead's movie, so don't go saying you like that car crash known as TLJ.

[–] FilmBuff (6663) 5 years ago

You're illustrating my point-- you treat this like religion. Replace "Original Trilogy" with "Holy Trinity" and nothing changes. Which is exactly what I was saying. So many people treat the original films as infallible, and, as you said, nothing beats them. It doesn't matter how good any subsequent film is, it's not the original, so it's not as good.

I acknowledge that. The very first Star Wars film is a good film, but it is elevated because it came out of a vacuum, more or less, and it came first. It doesn't matter if The Force Awakens is a better film, it can't be better because it didn't come first, and it came out in a different era when films meant more, and had more staying power in our lives.

Bottom line-- there's no real way we can have a discussion, because you are rude, angry, and you hold your beliefs to be infallibly true. I may as well find a devout, evangelical Christian and try to discuss whether or not Jesus really existed, or if he was an amalgamation of many religious figures of his era.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I'm not even religious... unless Star Wars is my religion (what a horrible thought!)

I would say nerd culture is my religion, since it's what I follow most online, but I like a lot of sci-fi and fantasy, not just Star Wars.

[–] mikethemartian (6052) 5 years ago

I was born in ‘65 and was always much more of an original Star Trek fan than Star Wars, but the original trilogy was magical. The prequels just came across to me as just over the top special effect and action scenes. I tend to agree with the Plinkett reviews of them.

[–] Scape (504) 5 years ago

I’m with you, Mike. Born in the 80’s. Love the Original Trilogy, with Empire always being my favorite.
Love the original Star Trek too. Never liked the prequels.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I'm not by any means saying I prefer the Prequels, but I wasn't offended by them, unlike most of Disney Star Wars.

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1320) 5 years ago

Agree.
That is why I am done with Star Wars.
I didn't see Solo and I definitely won't see this.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

What character assassination? Am I the only one who actually loved what they did with Luke? He was always a reluctant hero to begin with, so it totally makes sense that he'd be this cranky curmudgeon later in life.

[–] FilmBuff (6663) 5 years ago

I also think the way Luke was portrayed in The Last Jedi fits with the character we met in the original trilogy. He behaves pretty much exactly how you'd expect Luke Skywalker to behave at that age

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Many fans disagree. That's what Roundhead Johnson does, divides fans ON PURPOSE.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

He was always a reluctant hero to begin with, so it totally makes sense that he'd be this cranky curmudgeon later in life.

Not at all.

In the OT Luke is portrayed as a bit naive and quite family-oriented character. He's reluctant because he doesn't want to abandon his uncles that need him in the farm. After that he quickly develops a close relation with Obi Wan, and later on he's the real glue in the trio, and then he's the one that brings Vader back from the dark side. He's the nurturing character that brings everybody together, the one that cares more about friends and family than about himself.

No, his portrayal in the new trilogy doesn't make any sense.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

They have different problems.

Prequels were bad. That said, Lucas did his best. Sometimes you hit the nail, sometimes you don't.

The new ones are not 'bad' in the same sense, they are a product whose main purpose is to evangelize into the diversity/feminist stuff. They're boring because religious storytelling is often boring unless you're a strong believer. They were not a failure since those movies actually fulfill their purpose... the problem is that their purpose is not to entertain you. It's to evangelize you.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

ESB: A+ Everything was on-point
ANH: A+ A few dumb things but supreme turning point in sci-fi
RotJ: B Lucas has complete control now and the softening starts to show
TFA: B- Assorted dumb stuff strewn about, terrible treatment of Han, but closest to proper feel since the OT
PM: C Some excellent Jedi action and the best fight in the franchise. Frustrating & irritating.
R1: C Good action, lame characters. Fan service curdled.
TCW: C- Tragically mediocre. Some OK scenes. Crippled by constant bad jokes and uninteresting developments.
RotS: D+ Vacant political story arc. Embarrassing action sequences. Poor execution in most ways.
Solo: D Face-palm script. Idiotic writing. Not Star-Wars'y.
TLJ: F Nonsensical. Bottom tier choices in every aspect of writing and directing. Maybe a D+ movie if it wasn't Star Wars.

Me? Born in 69 and a life-long Star Wars and Star Trek fan. Not so true in the last decade.

[–] Threadkiller (2947) 5 years ago

I enjoyed the prequels & especially appreciate them for how they greatly expanded the universe and lore of Star Wars. Whatever flaws there may have been with them, the redeeming qualities greatly outweighed the bad. Unfortunately certain toxic fans didn't realize that nothing good would come of relentlessly attacking the films and Lucas rather than constructive criticism, which no doubt played a significant role in Lucas selling Star Wars.

What we got was the worst excuse for a Star Wars film ever and many of the same hyper critical prequel haters had every excuse in the world to defend the rehashed, soulless clusterf*ck of a film thrown together via corporate committee with no heart, no soul & Star Wars was officially dead & couldn't help but think "So this is how Star Wars dies, with thunderous applause".

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

There was plenty of "constructive criticism" but that never matters. Liking a thing does not make those that hate it "hyper critical." To many, the prequels really were that bad. Should everyone have just kept their mouths shut and hated it in silence? To me the final two preqs were pretty much as bad as what we have now.

Opinions and how we express them are varied and butts get hurt. Can haters blame the subsequent prequels for sucking even worse on those that praised Lucas? Its the same logic. The idea that people should be "grateful" for the prequels (or anything of low quality{I'm looking at you, GoT S8}) is absurd. It ascribes deity status on the maker of the film. Like any shit he takes is better than nothing.

People love/hate things. If only your theory of who is to blame were true. If it was then maybe Disney would sell SW off to someone capable. I hope it isn't Lucas.

[–] Threadkiller (2947) 5 years ago

Whatever constructive criticism was made was lost in a sea of toxic bandwagon jumping hatred which contributed to nothing good for the franchise. Now we're seeing the results.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

When the majority of people hate what you like it is "toxic bandwagon jumping"

[–] Threadkiller (2947) 5 years ago

The "majority of people" don't hate the prequels. It's a toxic critical mass of prequel bashers who try to convince themselves that most people "hate" the prequels. Acknowledging the flaws of the PT and hating the PT are not the same thing.

[–] AnubisRaydeen (7897) 5 years ago

"Acknowledging the flaws of the PT and hating the PT are not the same thing."

Fair enough.

[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 5 years ago

Great post Foebane72, I agree with you except for Phantom Menace which I hated, I saw and loved the original trilogy at the cinema as a kid, I had the toys, comic books, posters on my wall etc.

And still had a fondness for Star Wars during the prequel period but by this time I wasn’t mad about Star Wars like some fans are, I appreciated them for what they were though and love Ewan McGregor’s and Ian McDiarmid’s performances in the prequels. And own the PT on Blu-Ray alongside the OT.

As for the lazy woke sequels I disliked them from the start, I hated what they did to Luke, Han, Leia, and R2D2, that Mary Sue character and the lame rehash of a story, I’ve not seen the Last Jedi or Solo movie, doubt I ever will, Disney killed my interest in Star Wars but my affection for the original trilogy remains.

I won’t be watching this episode.