So I am still confused how Rey beat Kylo. Mostly talking about the first time they fought. An untrained person who just picks up the lightsaber beats someone who has trained most of his life. Not just trained but trained by Luke Skywalker and Snoke. Is the explanation that she is a Palpatine or do I not know something
shareShe is the Princess Reylene O'Palpatine and probably a Jedi Kwisatz Haderach on top of that. No power in the 'verse can stop her. It is known.
Ah well it all makes sense now
shareOkay that was the "poetic" response, now for the more nuts and bolts one. Rey was fit as a trout. She was a scavenger climbing all over wrecked starships looking for salvage and then hauling it back to town for a living. So yes she was strong.
Now remember before she and Kylo had their lightsaber fight in ' The Force Awakens ' Kylo had been shot in the side by Chewbacca and he was bleeding and he had already had a lightsaber fight with Finn and had been wounded again. When he fought Rey she wounded him several times more. By that time Kylo was just about done so it was no great surprise that Rey beat him. And although she hadn't used a lightsaber before her weapon on Jakku was the long metal staff so she was well practiced in that type of combat. So being able to swing a much more nimble lightsaber with good effect wasn't such a stretch for her. And she was able to call on the Force to help her in her final assault on Kylo.
When she and Kylo fought another lightsaber duel in ' The Rise of Skywalker ' the uninjured Kylo was too strong for her and could have killed her if he had wanted to. No surprises there. So all things considered I thought it was logical and made perfect sense.
OK this actually makes sense wow
shareIf that was the case why was luke struggling in his first outing? Also Horsegirl didn't lose a hand
shareBecause Luke had 5 appendages, and that's one too many. Rey always had 4, so they didn't need to change her.
shareYou mean when he went toe-to-toe with Vader and Vader didn't gain the upper hand until he started using the Force?
shareAlso Lukes pilot skills were crappy. Horsegirl seems to have cheat codes in her
shareLuke's pilot skills were crappy
You have got to be joking. Luke instantly graduated from flying a terrestrial hover vehicle to being the best fighter pilot the Rebels had.
No-one explained where Luke learned his top gun pilot skills from ( oh, apart from hunting rabbits was it ? ), it was just said that he had them ( apparently Obi-Wan had heard of Luke's legendary rabbit hunting skills ).
No-one explained how Rey instantly knew how to fly the Millenium Falcon, she just could. So they are equal as far as that goes. Put it down to the power of the Force in them or put it down to the writers need to have the plot drive the character rather than the other way around.
Either way who cares ? These are children's films not meticulously researched factual documentaries.
Yeah his skills were crappy,he lost his hand and arguably he wasn't skilled all in 4.
Horsegirl has cheat codes for everything and they try sayingl its cause palp was her grand daddy the whole time. Garbage is garbage kid movie or not
Which is it? Was Luke - like Rey - powerful because of his natural born abilities or was he nothing special?
"You have got to be joking. Luke instantly graduated from flying a terrestrial hover vehicle to being the best fighter pilot the Rebels had.
No-one explained where Luke learned his top gun pilot skills from ( oh, apart from hunting rabbits was it ? ), it was just said that he had them ( apparently Obi-Wan had heard of Luke's legendary rabbit hunting skills ). "
Yes Rey was a Dyad in the Force. The Force directly intervened in her life, it called her to Luke's lightsaber. The Dark side of the Force called to her, it dragged her into it's cave and showed her something or other. This didn't happen for Luke, he was just another potential Jedi, nothing special"
Luke was nothing special apart from being a potential Jedi. So of course he was special compared to people who were not potential Jedis. But compared to Rey who was a Dyad in the Force ( something that Palpatine said was rare ) Luke in Jedi terms was nothing special.
Luke is arguably the most powerful Jedi - on the light side - of all time, but sure. Nothing special.
shareLuke as in the guy who blew up the Death Star the first time he flew an X-wing? THAT Luke?
shareThose were hardly top gun flying skills
shareIf blowing up the Death Star wasn't a big deal why didn't someone else do it?
shareIdk im just saying he wasn't some maverick character
shareAre you drunk? He blew up the Death Star after getting in an X-wing for the first time, went toe-to-toe with Vader after training with Yoda for a few days, and then eventually BEAT Vader. Do you hear yourself?
shareHe didn't blow up the DS due to his amazing pilot skills but by using the force.
I didn't see any crazy piloting from Luke.
And he beat Vader 2 movies later, not in ANH.
"but by using the force"
Soooooo.... like Rey, then.
Nope not like Horsegirl. He could barley hold a lightsaber and he also lost his hand. Horsegirl emo man child like nothing
sharethenewnexus persona is a knuckle dragging troll, so it's pointless trying to have a meaningful discussion.
not quite, he used the force after being trained by yoda.
big difference ...
Small difference. Yoda's training of Luke from what we saw was brief and didn't get past the basics. Also Yoda complained that Luke was a bad pupil and Luke walked out on his training. Then when he went back to Yoda to complete his training Yoda was too busy dying and that was the end of that.
Still, a LOT more training than zero. Don't forget that he started with Obi-Wan ...
And all that training helped him with only one feat: hole target. His control of the force by the end of the ANH was ... minimal ... nowhere near the level of Ray at the end of TFA.
He started with Obi-Wan ? Oh you mean " Use the Force Luke ! " and " May the Force be with you ". Yes well I can see how that would have made all the difference. Again you're just making things up to back up what you want to believe.
So you don't remember the light saber training with Obi-Wan and how he was guiding him to, YES, use the force???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enKhkTmB0OQ
That was the start. Point is: compared with 0 even 1 is infinity more.
Ill break it down for the hard of hearing.
ANH - Luke trained with Obi Wan and his T16 he flew killing wamp rats.
TFA - Rey flys falcon with no pilot skills, uses the force with no training, wields lightsaber with no training.
ESB - Luke trains with Yoda and gets defeated by Vader.
TLJ - Rey defeats Kylo again with no training, Does lightsaber scene with no training.
ROTJ - Luke finally defeats Vader after 2 previous film training and still almost lost.
TROS - will not watch it as it is beyond garbage but I imagine she is more powerful than all combined again with still no training.
People can spin it all they want but Luke had training and previous skills, you can argue how long the training may have been but he still had it.
REY HAD NO FLIGHT, LIGHSABER OR FORCE TRAINING OF ANY KIND IN 3 MOVIES.
NONE, ZIPPO, NADA, ZERO, NOTHING. Do you see a pattern forming.
I cannot get it any simpler than that.
Same way how all women who destroy talented men's lives. She messed his head.
share[deleted]
These people are superheroes. They have superhuman skills and abilities. This is not some guy on the street beating up a Navy seal. Superman can beat up Batman despite the fact that Batman is extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat.
shareYes Rey was a Dyad in the Force. The Force directly intervened in her life, it called her to Luke's lightsaber. The Dark side of the Force called to her, it dragged her into it's cave and showed her something or other. This didn't happen for Luke, he was just another potential Jedi, nothing special.
neah, don't buy that either.
She had no idea she had the force until that very moment and then ... boom, she owns everything.
Superman was Superman from birth, he didn't suddenly got the powers when someone told him when he was in his 20s "wow, you must be superman".
You don't buy that Rey was a Dyad in the Force ?
i don't buy that she was whatever she was and she didn't once used her powers before that moment in her life. or that the force didn't call to her at all all her childhood, teenhood, whatever years. And suddenly she was stronger than Kylo with zero training.
At least with Luke we can see a gradual opening to the force and the powers of the force throgh a lot of training. He is NOT like "oh, ok, i can do that as well, hold my beer".
No you're just making things up to justify your opinion. Luke did not get a lot of training from what we saw. He got a brief introductory course and was a bad pupil and then he walked out on his training and never got any more. Rey was a Dyad in the Force and Luke wasn't.
And who cares when Rey's Force powers awakened ? What does it matter ? She did tell Luke that something had always been inside her and now it was awake. Is that not good enough for you either ?
Ill break it down for the hard of hearing.
ANH - Luke trained with Obi Wan and his T16 he flew killing wamp rats.
TFA - Rey flys falcon with no pilot skills, uses the force with no training, wields lightsaber with no training.
ESB - Luke trains with Yoda and gets defeated by Vader.
TLJ - Rey defeats Kylo again with no training, Does lightsaber scene with no training.
ROTJ - Luke finally defeats Vader after 2 previous film training and still almost lost.
TROS - will not watch it as it is beyond garbage but I imagine she is more powerful than all combined again with still no training.
People can spin it all they want but Luke had training and previous skills, you can argue how long the training may have been but he still had it.
REY HAD NO FLIGHT, LIGHSABER OR FORCE TRAINING OF ANY KIND IN 3 MOVIES.
NONE, ZIPPO, NADA, ZERO, NOTHING. Do you see a pattern forming.
I cannot get it any simpler than that.
You're worse than asom, in fact you might be asom's sock puppet or vice versa. Anyway here we go:
ANH - Luke trained with Obi Wan and his T16 he flew killing wamp rats.
Okay so Luke flew a poor man's fighter and hunted wamp rats, I had forgotten the exact details there. But as far as Luke's training went there just wasn't much of it. Being told by Obi-Wan to " Use the force Luke " and ten minutes of Luke holding a lightsaber and getting zapped by a floating ball is pretty thin.
TFA - Rey flys falcon with no pilot skills, uses the force with no training, wields lightsaber with no training.
When Rey and Finn were dodging explosions and running towards a space ship on Jakku Finn yelled " We need a pilot " and Rey replied " We've got one ". So unless Rey was lying ( and subsequent events proved she wasn't ) Rey was indeed a pilot. But how could this be !? Cry the Mary Sewers !
Rey worked for Unkar Plutt on Jakku and we only see her scavenging spare parts for him. But later we see that not only is Rey a pilot she is also a mechanic. It's not too much of a stretch ( in Star Wars ) that as well as being a scavenger for Unkar Plutt she also worked on his space ships, replaced parts in them etc and then test piloted them.
ESB - Luke trains with Yoda and gets defeated by Vader.
TLJ - Rey defeats Kylo again with no training, Does lightsaber scene with no training.
While it's true that Rey had no lightsaber training that doesn't mean she had no fighting training at all. Rey was skilled at fighting with her long metal staff and I imagine those skills would transfer pretty well to a less heavy and more nimble lightsaber.
And Rey only beat Kylo because he had been wounded with a blaster by Chewbacca and then wounded again by Finn with a lightsaber. By the time Rey started fighting with him Kylo was already half gone. Even so Rey was hard pressed and had to call on the Force to help her beat Kylo with her final assault.
to be continued...
Part 2
Also Rey was extremely fit and strong due to her work climbing all over space ship wrecks to find salvage and then hauling it back to town.
When Rey and Kylo had another lightsaber duel in TROS the uninjured Kylo was too strong for her and could have killed her if he had wanted to. So much for the invincible Rey "Mary-Sue" Palpatine.
REY HAD NO FLIGHT, LIGHTSABER OR FORCE TRAINING OF ANY KIND IN 3 MOVIES.
Rey was a pilot we just didn't get to see it prior to her flying the Millenium Falcon.
Her fighting skills with the metal staff prepared her for using a lightsaber.
In TLJ Rey told Luke that something ( the Force ) had always been in her and now it was awake. Rey was a Dyad in the Force and that made her different and more powerful than Luke.
I cannot get it any simpler than that.
Well there's your problem. You made it so simple you ignored things that don't back up your bias against Rey.
"i don't buy that she was whatever she was and she didn't once used her powers before that moment in her life. or that the force didn't call to her at all all her childhood, teenhood, whatever years."
All of this can be said about Luke. No Force powers, then BAM, he uses it to talk to dead Ben and blow up the Death Star.
He had some training. And with Ben he didn't use the force, ben contacted him from the force.
The only thing he really used the force was to target the hole with a missile, not that impressive if you ask me ...
"not that impressive if you ask me ..."
Stop it.
Why? It makes too much sense for you comprehend?
shareLuke blowing up the Death Star is "not that impressive", LOL?!
https://youtu.be/nop1PRMiiPY?t=11
When you think that all he did was to bullseye a hole that was built with exactly this scope ... no, it's not. It's even explained in Rogue One why he was able to blow the DS ;) (and in ANH actually)
I get it is impressive if it's too hard for you to understand the specifics ...
Devils advocate here:
She didn't. Kylo didn't want to kill her because he was hoping for an apprentice, to bring her on his side.
Actually I think that he was holding back in all their fights.
I agree. Kylo perhaps even from early on saw himself as the future Emperor. Well an Emperor needs an Empress wife if he wants to create a dynasty. And with each thing Kylo learned about Rey as he went along he became more and more convinced that she was top shelf Empress material. Then when he found out they were Dyads in the Force well it was destiny ! So the last thing he wanted to do was kill her.
LOL, that would insinuate good writing to foreshadow whats to come in the later movies.
Nothing in the movies indicate this at all. That's actually a good twist, oh how I wish that were true.
Sadly, you made a better plot element than the writers, oh well....
1) because she owns a stick
2) mary sue
Speaking of simple minded.
She's also a fully qualified starship mechanic because she pulls random parts off crashed star destroyers and sells them as scrap metal for food.
sharemechanic and amazing pilot ... because let's face it: if i know how to handle my motorcycle OBVIOUSLY I can pilot everything else, even a spaceship.
shareThe pair of you could always try reading all of the posts in this thread if you don't want to appear to be ignorant and/or foolish.