I think there's a bit of true and a bit of misinformation there.
Abrams is a one-trick man: mystery boxes. He probably didn't know what to do with the final movie. Yeap, I can believe that Disney edited without Abrams knowledge... but they probably did so because they saw Abrams completely lost.
If Abrams had had some clear ideas about what to do with this movie, Disney wouldn't have interfered. He's not some indie starting director. Leaks said that he was doing some kind of 'modular' movie. That means building generic pieces (battle between Rey and Kilo, final battle, Chewbacca being kidnapped, final kiss, and so)... even though you don't really know how to combine them. Watching Abrams wandering around without any clear goal or idea, Disney probably decided to do some damage control and interfere.
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Keelai (31752)
4 years ago
I believe Iger and Kennedy were likely involved, but only dictating to Abrams what fan service they wanted: Palpatine, Reylo kiss, OT rehash. The rest of the mess is Abrams because it's similar to what he has done in his other movies. He copies, not creates. Very sloppy storytelling (if you can call it a story). It's also a rush job with continuity errors and plotholes. He creates mysteries which he never solves (Lost). Abram's MO.
And he hired hack Chris Terrio (Batman v Superman, Justice League) as a cowriter. Why? It was the writer's job to come up with a good story.
I found an interesting video about Abrams lack of talent on youtube re: "Rise".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD5mLw0A8vI
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orangeflava (1725)
4 years ago
what mysteries did he not solve in Lost?
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kuku (3510)
4 years ago
Most of them.
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orangeflava (1725)
4 years ago
Examples?
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Keelai (31752)
4 years ago
Nice try but Abrams already admitted on the Howard Stern show years ago that he never intended to solve any of the mysteries because he thought the show was going to be canceled in its first season. I stopped watching Lost around the third season after I realized mysteries weren't going to be solved. I really hate bad writing and Abrams is a hack.
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orangeflava (1725)
4 years ago
oh man that sucks. Many things were answered. But even if everything wasnt i loved the heck out of that show. It was about the characters for me. and some of the episodes after season 3 were pretty damn epic. "The Constant" in season 4 is widely regarded as one of the best episodes of any TV show. Plus Ab Aeterno(Richard origin episode)Across The Sea(smoke monster origin episode), season 5 episodes that dealt with time skips and time displacement, flash sideways in season 6, etc. One of my favorite shows.
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Keelai (31752)
4 years ago
Abrams had to make up stuff when the show wasn't cancelled. A "Heroes" promotion assured people that unlike that other show, their show would answer all the mysteries.
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kuku (3510)
4 years ago
Many things were answered.
Nope. They gave some quick patchy explanation that left LOTS of plot holes and didn't make any sense.
The only explanation that really made sense was the purgatory theory... which only worked for the first half of the series. I think that was probably the original (planned) ending, but then they kept launching even more mystery boxes until they didn't know how to solve the whole thing and gave some 'just because my balls' final.
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[deleted]
4 years ago
I heard on a number of podcasts that Iger promised JJ creative control in order to lure him back for IX, that JJ immediately started working with Lucas on fixing the problems created by TLJ.
I know you've said you don't think that there was a Lucas cut, are you also saying that you think Lucas wasn't involved at all?
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Keelai (31752)
4 years ago
No way was Lucas involved. Lucas even said that Disney didn't want his ideas or have him involved. Lucas would've introduced new material, new art, had a story and character development. This movie is nothing short of incompetence and ruins his original movies by undoing the storytelling and character arcs.
It's obvious a noncreative was making key decisions that helped ruin this movie. Lucas had complained in an interview about studio execs making creative decisions for his earlier movies which they had no business nor talent doing. Lucas funded the SW movies (after New Hope) to maintain creative control.
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[deleted]
4 years ago
I knew that Disney bought Lucas' story treatments for VII, VIII, & IX.
Judging from the prequels, I'm not surprised that Disney didn't use them, but it seemed plausible from the reports that JJ could have pulled him in to get things on back on track.
Interesting, thanks.
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Keelai (31752)
4 years ago
Lucas thought that Disney bought the treatments because they would use them. Iger's intention may have been only to keep Lucas's story ideas underwraps. I refuse to read his dopey book to find out.
It's common for business people to not risk money by using only the popular and proven which would be the OT. That's the complete opposite of art and creativity. Iger is retiring soon, so maybe the new CEO will have more backbone and we'll get something more than fanfiction.
"JJ could have pulled him in to get things on back on track."
"Rise" derailed big time. JJ movie using Iger and Kennedy's "suggestions".
I liked the prequels. At least they were original.
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[deleted]
4 years ago
I believe Iger and Kennedy were likely involved, but only dictating to Abrams what fan service they wanted:
Disagree: Disney's very hierarchical, and Kennedy's professional reputation & legacy was riding on the success of these films.
Between Iger's & Kennedy's professional reputation & legacy in the final years of their career, much less their egos, these films were probably micromanaged to within an inch of their life.
The end product and performance of the films testify to that.
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Keelai (31752)
4 years ago
Fan service is 90 percent of the film. We're actually agreeing.
I'm just not buying Abrams as an innocent since he went along with their master plan while making Force Awakens. That movie had issues too.
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[deleted]
4 years ago
Absolutely! JJ's a power player in Hollywood, which means he's a political animal first, and also means he's balls deep in this mess and (I think) working to cover his own ass and salvage his reputation.
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Keelai (31752)
4 years ago
Now supposedly the SW fans are demanding to see a JJ Abrams director's cut of the film. I'm convinced that's Disney PR at work trying to drum up more money for this crappy film.
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[deleted]
4 years ago
Yep, I heard the rumors of a Lucas Cut as well. I could see fans clamoring for that, but not a JJ cut.
There's some serious PR/Marketing fuckery going-on that almost makes me wonder if they're trying to cultivate a window for a 2nd Release.
That would be a trick worth watching from a business perspective.
Has there been a movie that's pulled that off in the past 100 years of cinema?
It really is amazing. I wouldn't have believed it if you'd of told me 40 years ago that the greatest entertainment value of a new Star Wars release will be everything about the movie, but the movie itself.
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Keelai (31752)
4 years ago
Lucas had nothing to do with this crap. I notice Disney repeatedly brings up his name to legitimize their movie messes. Notice how he's a no show at the premiere this time.
"Has there been a movie that's pulled that off in the past 100 years of cinema?"
Superior Director's cut of the Lord of Rings trilogy made fans rebuy the DVDs. Perhaps a bump up in DVD sales for a few other movies including SW. I have the original theatrical version videos and the special editions.
An Abrams edit would still be garbage. Bringing back Palpatine was plain dumb.
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moviefanatic505 (6000)
4 years ago
Yeah no wonder these new films were better than his prequels. Thank God Lucas wasn't involved,
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Keelai (31752)
4 years ago
"Those films are overrated garbage. I am glad Star Wars is dead it was never good to begin with."
Trekkie!
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[deleted]
4 years ago
No kidding . . . sort of had you pegged for a Lost in Space aficionado.
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[deleted]
4 years ago
WTF is wrong with you, Keelai? I'm much more of a Trekkie than a Warsian as well!
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[deleted]
4 years ago
"Superior Director's cut of the Lord of Rings trilogy made fans rebuy the DVDs."
HEY, the Extended Editions of LOTR are definitely worth it, I don't even bother with the Theatricals anymore. Don't diss the EE, Keelai!
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