IMO I still hate TFA the most

sarcasm?

It should be a real softball hit; but there was so many factors working against it in this case; the committee mentality of trying to 'please everyone', trying to pivot away from the prequels and the prequel haters, trying to maximize (exploit) nostalgia for the originals, and no creative vision. Also combine that with the obvious truth that Kathleen Kennedy has a huge chip on her shoulder and really despised the OT fans; also the fact that she clearly didn't really care about telling a story and was a 'personnel' manager only (and not a very good one if you look at all the directors she fired).

The big thing that shocked me is not that people loved TFA at first; but the denial and excuse making after years. I mean I called it for 2 years that TLJ would be a disaster, because TFA was one from a character and story telling stand point. There was no way it would fill in all the holes and be a good movie at the same time, was the thing I said. but even after TLJ came out and was the disaster I predicted it to be; people still blamed TLJ for all of it. It blows my mind the length TFA defenders will go to in saying "TFA was great and Rian Ruined everything" when there was nothing there to ruin in the first place.

IMO I think I can determine my own opinion better than you. I didn't even hate TLJ; I mostly laughed at how bad it was. I didn't rage at it like I did TFA. Why post such a condescending comment? If you can't make an argument, why even bother? What is your goal with this post? it is clearly not to discuss this topic in good faith or have a reasonable discussion/disagreement.

It was worse than just a remake; it wouldn't be nearly as bad if it was just a remake/re-imagining of ANH. They could say they were building a different star wars universe with different rules. I would probably not think it was a terrible movie had it done that, I just would have said it was another mediocre remake like Robocop. But it was not just a remake because it was supposed to be continuation; had all the OT cast back; and was therefore bond to follow the rules, story and characters of the OT; but it instead pissed all over all of it.

Yes, I saw through the nostalgia as well; I think only those of use that did not get sucked into it are the only ones that recognized right away what a terrible film it was. And the few of us already knew the last jedi was doomed to fail.

I have suffered through it about 2 to 3 times (never in one setting because it is too painful to sit through; my head hurts from all the stupid I am witnessing every 30 minutes or so) but this is an important film to analyze thoroughly and to make sure you are getting the criticisms very accurate. Because so many people liked it and have a hard time admitting just how bad it is; it is our job to provide very solid reasoning for why it is so bad; or we can't make an objective and strong argument.

This is actually one that i disagree with; I liked the lightsaber battle of TFA. It was more raw and less looking like a dance (prequels). 2 things that were not good though; Daisy Ridley was constantly off queue; TFA hides it better than TLJ but it is there; and story wise the outcome of the fight is just incredibly insulting and lore breaking (not to mention makes the new darth vader and primary villain look like a pathetic little weasel before the "almighty" Rey.) So damn annoying. How much more meaning would there have been that Kylo (though impressed with Rey's natrual ability) still kicks her ass the first fight despite having multiple wounds and just killing his father. I mean he still wins despite all that, he would official be a bad ass; but nope can't have Rey lose even her first fight and 0 training. God, fuck that film.