Will Rian Johnson...
...ever be honest about how much he fucked Star Wars up? Or will he continue dodging responsibility and act like he made a film that only bigots hate?
shareThe latter.
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MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi (2017) Discussion > Will Rian Johnson...
Meh! J.J. Abrams did way more to undermine the potential of the ST with his crappy, disjointed soft reboot. Johnson was left holding the bag of dog sh*t.
shareBull crap , dont blane jj for this dog turd , this is 100% on johnson , he wrote and directed it and its utter garbage.
shareSorry but I can and do blame Jar Jar. He regressed the entire series by soft rebooting the state of the universe back to ANH , largely copied those story beats & undermined the accomplishments of the OT. Abrams is the one who turned Luke into a failure who allowed is academy to be destroyed, & Kylo to join the rise of the new Empire, running away the hide on an Island instead of taking responsibility.
Those of us who weren't in denial and saw the TFA for the pile of disjointed garbage it was right away could already see that Jar Jar set up Luke to be the the very same loser we saw in the TLJ well before it ever came out and we said as much.
The story arcs could of been a good platform to build from , yes its similar to anh however its still a different story. Think your hate is rather ott, would you of wanted another prequel scenario ? They played it safe , which is probably what star wars needed
shareSome of us saw right away the "story arcs" for the empty mystery bait that they were & were later proved correct. I don't agree with your line of thinking as I believe it's exactly why the ST is the mess that it is but ultimately we're just going to have to agree to disagree because we simply have fundamental differences on this issue. You're not going to convince me that TFA isn't a pile of irredeemable garbage & I'm not trying to convince you to not like it.
shareyour argument doesn't make any sense. You say Johnson was left holding the bag and you complain that FA sucks because they were "empty mystery bait that they were & were later proved correct". but they were only these empty crap mysteries because Johnson executed them that way.
you are literally saying FA sucked because we say it amounted to nothing in TLJ, but that's not Rians Johnsons fault who directed TLJ its somehow JJ's.
That not accurate; TFA set up impossible to solve/answer mystery boxes in place of plot and world building; but in addition to the mystery boxes having no context to be answered in a satisfying way; the realiance on mystery undermines the OT by making a strange void in between ROTJ and TFA in which the universe somehow reset itself to stage 1 and all of our heroes failed or did nothing to stop it. No matter which way you cut it; that is a slap to the face of the OT. And if you actually think about the mystery boxes, you can see just how empty of actual tangible fulfillment they were. Take just one example; who is Snoke, and how did this seemingly old and very powerful dark force user not only take over the imperial remnants and made them arguably more resourceful than even the Empire in their prime while at the same time manipulating Kylo to betray Luke and destroy the academy with the 'knights of Ren' (which is another mystery box, who the hell are the knights of ren?). OH and at the same time; Luke, Han and Leia somehow know who Snoke is? And they knew Ben was being manipulated by him? Think about what a bag of worms this is to try to sort out. It would take a tome larger than a George RR Martin novel; and Rian was supposed to solve it all in about a 2 hour run time and tell his own story and have enough action sequences to make it entertaining (as well as all the other mystery boxes such How is rey and why is she so powerful, why is luke in hiding, why did he leave a map to himself, how did Maz find Luke's lost lightsaber, how did han lose the falcon, and on and on) Think about it, no matter how you slice it, Johnson had an impossible task; and he failed.
shareThe Force Awakens managed to suck in spite of all plot holes and half written ideas, disguised as "mysteries". They just insured that the subsequent films would suffer from the burden of having to make sense of the completely unnecessary jumbled up mess of half baked ideas that kicked off the trilogy.
shareI agree with this; JJ's soft reboot undermined the lore, themes and mythology of the Star Wars universe and pissed all over the continuity; undid Han's character arc, negated the victory of the OT, and filled all the important elements of a plot with open ended mystery boxes that had no in film prepared answers; and left people endlessly speculating about those mystery boxes for 2 years.
You know how I know the mystery boxes were garbage and had no answer; because every single fan theory had equally valid in film proof. Rey could have as easily been a descended of Kenobi as she was a descended of Palpatine and the frustrating thing was, no matter who her relatives were it was never going to excuse her video game like power ups and complete lack of trial and growth. TFA was utter garbage; and anyone that is still convinced it was good and it is all Rian Johnson's fault should ask themselves why it mattered so much Snoke was killed off and why it upset them so much. The answer is because it exposed Snoke for what he was, a cheap carbon copy stand in for the Emperor; just like everything else was in TFA; cheap carbon copy stand ins that were completely devoid of logic, sensibility and heart.
Why did Rian Johnson feel the need to deconstruct Star Wars?
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Rian-Johnson-feel-the-need-to-deconstruct-Star-Wars/answer/Aaron-Davis-382
They broke from the formula, and were rewarded for it.share
So that’s what Rian Johnson did. J.J. Abrams handed him the keys to a box truck full of empty “mystery boxes”, and Johnson shoved them off the tailgate, doused them in gasoline, and lit them on fire while laughing maniacally.
The crappy wannabe Palpatine? Screw him, he was ugly.
The crappy Rule 63 of Luke pining for her parents? Her parents were nobodies who sold her for drug money, and she should be her own thing and move forward.
The crappy wannabe Wedge Antilles-Han Solo amalgam going for the high-risk, high-reward heroics? He screws the pooch big-time because he doesn’t know when to shut up and obey orders.
The crappy wannabe Rebel Alliance? They get their asses kicked, which is what usually happens when guerrilla movements try to fight the evil empire head-on.
The crappy wannabe Darth Vader? He realizes he’s a crappy wannabe Darth Vader, chops his crappy wannabe Palpatine in half, then refuses to join the light side and instead takes over the dark side faction.
Unlike J.J. Abrams, Rian Johnson understood that constant rehashes will hit a point of diminishing returns, often sooner rather than later. You can see it with the Terminator sequels, which got progressively worse until the first actual good Terminator film in over a decade tanked at the box office just because people had been burned too many times. And it’s exactly what happened when Abrams got the reins back in The Rise of Skywalker, because that man hasn’t had an original thought since Lost.
^This
Don't get me wrong Rian Johnson made a terrible film and I hated it; but not as much as I hated the cheap carbon copy of ANH with all the lore mysticism and character development pissed and burned then replaced with empty open ended mystery boxes. Everyone just hates Rian because he exposed TFA (which they all loved) for the soulless and empty story monstrosity TFA was.
TFA was an extremely shallow movie designed to appease a very shallow crowd. TLJ exposes all the shallowness and people don't like to be shown how shallow they are.
Rian Johnson made some things very clear, but for all the wrong reasons. He did it because he kind of hated star wars and the fans; and wanted to give them the middle finger while telling his own tale of nihilism; because of his goals and attitude he made a terrible film that made a very good message; The disney era star wars was an abomination. Some of us saw it in TFA; many more realized it with TLJ. But I think too many still blame TLJ and neglect the fact the abomination was already on legs and walking after TFA.
Yeah, as much as I dislike TLJ, I do consider it a better film than TFA if for no other reason than he trued something new.
shareI don't know if 'better' is the word I would use; TLJ didn't bother me as much I think because I was expecting an unmitigated disaster; sort of like TFA was the Atom bomb of destruction and TLJ was the radioactive fall out. Hard to say which is better or worse
shareI can see that. I consider Revenge of the Sith better than the other prequels in a similar fashion.
shareRevenge of the sith is a bad movie I admit but I admit it is a guilty pleasure of mine. I like the action and the pacing. And the few really cool moments in there really hit the mark perfectly. Of course there is a lot of stunted acting and a bit of rushed incoherent plot that totally fails to deliver the message it was trying to tell.
shareMore like “Ruin Johnson” hehe
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